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King Juan Carlos of Spain abdicates

Andalublue

Andalublue

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Big, big news day here in Spain. After 39 years on the throne, King Juan Carlos of Spain is abdicating in favour of his son, the Prince of Asturias, Don Felipe de Borbón y Borbón.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27662301

I think this is a sensible move. Don Juan Carlos's health has been fairly poor of late and he's certainly less mobile than he needs to be to be an active monarch. It's also a political move to draw a line under the criticisms and suspicions that people have about the corrupt activities of other members of the royal family (not Don Felipe, btw) which of late have been subtly implicating the King himself. Public support for the institution of the monarchy has been declining for some time, since the news of the corrupt activities of the King's son-in-law and, as it has later emerged, those of his daughter, the Infanta Cristina. The King's own lavish hunting trips, in which he would use Spanish military transport for these personal jollies, enraged the populace, drowning as they were under austerity measures and record unemployment.

Some commentators have even been raising the idea of a referendum to decide upon the idea of returning Spain to being a republic. The King's decision to abdicate may indeed draw a line under that discussion for a time. Prince Felipe has a much better and cleaner public image than most of the rest of the royal family, so a new start with him as Head of State might be just what the monarchy needs.

Any thoughts on the king, the Spanish monarchy or the prospect for the reign of the new King Felipe VI?
 
Wow, why abdicate though? Why not just do a standard royal succession?
 
PoS said:
Wow, why abdicate though? Why not just do a standard royal succession?
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Because to do that he'd need to die. I think he thought the alternative was preferable.
 
I don't know how active the monarchy is in Spain,
but fresh ideas, and bold leadership, could go a long way towards
correcting whatever is broken.
I hope Spain returns to financial stability,
it is one of my favorite places on Earth.
 
Andalublue said:
Big, big news day here in Spain. After 39 years on the throne, King Juan Carlos of Spain is abdicating in favour of his son, the Prince of Asturias, Don Felipe de Borbón y Borbón.

BBC News - King Juan Carlos of Spain abdicates

I think this is a sensible move. Don Juan Carlos's health has been fairly poor of late and he's certainly less mobile than he needs to be to be an active monarch. It's also a political move to draw a line under the criticisms and suspicions that people have about the corrupt activities of other members of the royal family (not Don Felipe, btw) which of late have been subtly implicating the King himself. Public support for the institution of the monarchy has been declining for some time, since the news of the corrupt activities of the King's son-in-law and, as it has later emerged, those of his daughter, the Infanta Cristina. The King's own lavish hunting trips, in which he would use Spanish military transport for these personal jollies, enraged the populace, drowning as they were under austerity measures and record unemployment.

Some commentators have even been raising the idea of a referendum to decide upon the idea of returning Spain to being a republic. The King's decision to abdicate may indeed draw a line under that discussion for a time. Prince Felipe has a much better and cleaner public image than most of the rest of the royal family, so a new start with him as Head of State might be just what the monarchy needs.

Any thoughts on the king, the Spanish monarchy or the prospect for the reign of the new King Felipe VI?
Click to expand...

How significant is the percent of the population that wishes to do away with the monarchy?

Game of thrones: Spain's king Juan Carlos abdicates
 
Andalublue said:
Because to do that he'd need to die. I think he thought the alternative was preferable.
Click to expand...
Well if he really wanted to make a statement... :2razz:
 
He does look frail these days. The Beeb showed him shakily walking with two sticks. His big moment was when he faced down the Civil Guard coup attempt.
 
nota bene said:
How significant is the percent of the population that wishes to do away with the monarchy?
Click to expand...

It's between 40 and 50% of the population that believes Spain should get rid of the monarchy. This is the most recent opinion poll that I could find, dating from January this year. It's in Spanish, but the relevant question is:

¿Respalda la Monarquía como forma de estado para España? - Do you support the monarchy as the best form of state for Spain? It's in the fifth graphic. The responses were 'Yes' - 49.9%; 'No' - 43.3%, 'Don't know, don't understand' - 6.8%. Just a year ago, those results were: Yes - 53%, No - 41%, DK/DU - 5.2%.

El apoyo a la Monarqua sigue cayendo pero crece la valoracin del Prncipe Felipe | Espaa | EL MUNDO

Now, those stats might change, but no one yet knows in which direction. That article comes from a right-leaning, pro-monarchist newspaper, El Mundo.

Hope this helps.
 
Andalublue said:
¿Respalda la Monarquía como forma de estado para España? - Do you support the monarchy as the best form of state for Spain? It's in the fifth graphic. The responses were 'Yes' - 49.9%; 'No' - 43.3%, 'Don't know, don't understand' - 6.8%. Just a year ago, those results were: Yes - 53%, No - 41%, DK/DU - 5.2%.
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6.8% were English tourists who got lost

This being Granada there have already been massive demonstrations about this, you would think people would have other priorities and this point in time
 
You know, I had all but forgotten Spain still had a King.
 
Red_Dave said:
6.8% were English tourists who got lost

This being Granada there have already been massive demonstrations about this, you would think people would have other priorities and this point in time
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You're still in Graná? I had no idea.

I think that this issue just provides a focus for all those other issues and priorities. I don't think anyone hates the King, but the monarchy represents the current, broken, anti-democratic status quo. People are sick of corrupt officials, corrupt politicians, and corrupt royals - it's all part of the package.
 
Goshin said:
You know, I had all but forgotten Spain still had a King.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we're not accustom to that here. Of course England still has a queen.
 
The country is not blessed with a great monarchy, the monarchy they had was handpicked by dictator Franco to take over for him. There are several groups in Spain who want more autonomy and I think there is going to be a vocal anti-monarchy movement.

I think it would be best for Spain to make it's own mind up, have a referendum on the monarchy. The people will then decide whether or not it should go, the Spanish monarchy does not have the heritage that the English, Dutch, Danish, Swedish royal families have.

Personally I am happy to see the old king go because I did not like him that much.
 
Peter King said:
The country is not blessed with a great monarchy, the monarchy they had was handpicked by dictator Franco to take over for him. There are several groups in Spain who want more autonomy and I think there is going to be a vocal anti-monarchy movement.
Click to expand...
There already is one. Last night there were big demonstrations in almost every one of Spain's 48 provincial capitals, with over 100,000 people calling for a vote on whether to continue as a monarchy, or become a republic for the 3rd time in history. Of course, the mainstream political parties won't permit any such vote.

I think it would be best for Spain to make it's own mind up, have a referendum on the monarchy. The people will then decide whether or not it should go, the Spanish monarchy does not have the heritage that the English, Dutch, Danish, Swedish royal families have.
Click to expand...
Well, Spain isn't really that democratic.

Personally I am happy to see the old king go because I did not like him that much.
Click to expand...
I don't think he was THAT bad, but made some major, major errors in recent years. What has surprised me about the corruption allegations is that people are surprised that the royals should have engaged in such practices. It's more unbelievable to me that people would think that they wouldn't. It's been the standard practice of monarchs throughout history to bleed their people dry while living in unearned luxury.
 
Andalublue said:
There already is one. Last night there were big demonstrations in almost every one of Spain's 48 provincial capitals, with over 100,000 people calling for a vote on whether to continue as a monarchy, or become a republic for the 3rd time in history. Of course, the mainstream political parties won't permit any such vote.
Click to expand...

I know, I live in the Netherlands and it was a subject of newspapers and the television news shows that there was a big demonstration.

I know, I think both political parties do not want a president of the opposing side taking office and having some degree of power.

Andalublue said:
Well, Spain isn't really that democratic.
Click to expand...

You would know that better than me. I bow to your superior knowledge to that.

Andalublue said:
I don't think he was THAT bad, but made some major, major errors in recent years. What has surprised me about the corruption allegations is that people are surprised that the royals should have engaged in such practices. It's more unbelievable to me that people would think that they wouldn't. It's been the standard practice of monarchs throughout history to bleed their people dry while living in unearned luxury.
Click to expand...

I am not saying that he was that bad, I just did not think he was that personable (from what I have seen on Dutch royalty shows).

Yes, monarchs do have often enriched themselves at the cost of the people. Thank goodness that time is largely done, there is public oversight and that means that people in royal families that are not that wealthy will lie, steal and cheat to get what they think is due to them.
 
Kobie said:
I wish that was my name.
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I've never really coveted one of those long, aristocratic monickers. I always wished that I'd been given a weird name, like Slartibartfarst, or Zaphod Beeblebrox or Rasd-Coduresa Diziet Embless Sma da' Marenhide.
 
Peter King said:
The country is not blessed with a great monarchy, the monarchy they had was handpicked by dictator Franco to take over for him.
Click to expand...

Actually that is not exactly true. Spain has always been pro-royalist and Juan Carlos is decedent of the former King before the 1931 republic... his son to be exact.

There are several groups in Spain who want more autonomy and I think there is going to be a vocal anti-monarchy movement.
Click to expand...

Of course there are groups who want more autonomy.. thanks to Franco. And as for the anti-monarchy movement, well those are left overs from the old republic days and left wing/communist tendencies.

I think it would be best for Spain to make it's own mind up, have a referendum on the monarchy. The people will then decide whether or not it should go, the Spanish monarchy does not have the heritage that the English, Dutch, Danish, Swedish royal families have.
Click to expand...

Actually it does..

Personally I am happy to see the old king go because I did not like him that much.
Click to expand...

Me too but mostly because he is of the older generation which simply do not work in a modern world. But I will always respect him for what he did when the pro Franco military happened after Franco´s death.
 
PeteEU said:
Actually that is not exactly true. Spain has always been pro-royalist
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That's a massive generalisation. I'd say that Spain has always been deeply divided over the matter, dating back to Napoleonic times and the Constitution of Cádiz of 1812, which expressly diminished the role of the monarchy. ¡Viva la Pepa! Since then, a country that has already had 2 republics cannot be said to be totally committed to the concept of monarchy.


And as for the anti-monarchy movement, well those are left overs from the old republic days and left wing/communist tendencies.
Click to expand...
Nonsense. The heart of the anti-monarchy, anti-establishment movement are young people under 35 who have no affiliation to the old republican movement, but who see the current semi-democratic, neo-liberal state as having failed them and as having no intention of permitting popular sovereignty and real democratic rule in Spain. As I posted earlier, you've got a growing 40%+ of Spaniards who are anti-monarchist. You might dismiss them, but you won't make them go away as long as the corrupt system continues to fail the country, and especially its youth.
 
Andalublue said:
That's a massive generalisation. I'd say that Spain has always been deeply divided over the matter, dating back to Napoleonic times and the Constitution of Cádiz of 1812, which expressly diminished the role of the monarchy. ¡Viva la Pepa! Since then, a country that has already had 2 republics cannot be said to be totally committed to the concept of monarchy.
Click to expand...

And yet Juan Carlos was hugely popular until his recent scandals... because of how he stood up to the Franco forces in the early 80s.

Nonsense. The heart of the anti-monarchy, anti-establishment movement are young people under 35 who have no affiliation to the old republican movement, but who see the current semi-democratic, neo-liberal state as having failed them and as having no intention of permitting popular sovereignty and real democratic rule in Spain. As I posted earlier, you've got a growing 40%+ of Spaniards who are anti-monarchist. You might dismiss them, but you won't make them go away as long as the corrupt system continues to fail the country, and especially its youth.
Click to expand...

And I would say it is more anti-establishment than anti-monarchy. There is no doubt that there is a debate going on.. do you want a Monarchy with all the promt and stuff that comes with it, or an elected President with no power but just a figure head. I would always choose a Monarchy since that will attract tourist money where as few "Presidents" do.... and the fact that Presidents often cost far more to run than royal families ironically.
 
PeteEU said:
And I would say it is more anti-establishment than anti-monarchy. There is no doubt that there is a debate going on.. do you want a Monarchy with all the promt and stuff that comes with it, or an elected President with no power but just a figure head. I would always choose a Monarchy since that will attract tourist money where as few "Presidents" do.... and the fact that Presidents often cost far more to run than royal families ironically.
Click to expand...

Well, the Spanish monarchy doesn't operate with more than a fraction of the pomp of other monarchies, or indeed many republics. The French and American presidents have far more regalia attached. I don't really think that JC and co. bring in any appreciable tourist business. If I had to choose, I'd choose a figurehead, non-political HoS along the lines of Ireland or Germany, separating out HoS and HoG functions and disallowing political party involvement in the election. Failing that, a con-mon seems preferable to a presidential system in which the two functions are combined.

I agree that the anti-monarchy issue is totally bound up in the anti-establishment movement and is of lesser importance than breaking up the corrupt Spanish political oligarchy. The trouble is for the monarchy that JC and the recent corruption scandals have shown the institution of the monarchy to be an indistinguishable element of that oligarchy, hence they should go too, IMHO.
 
Andalublue said:
I've never really coveted one of those long, aristocratic monickers. I always wished that I'd been given a weird name, like Slartibartfarst, or Zaphod Beeblebrox or Rasd-Coduresa Diziet Embless Sma da' Marenhide.
Click to expand...

Or any of these:

twit.jpg
 
I don't understand why any nation, but especially sophisticated ones like Holland, the UK and Spain, tolerate the continued existence of royalty. Even if the royals have little or no power, they are a waste of money and resources and are an insult to the concept of (representational) democracy.
 
Hard Truth said:
I don't understand why any nation, but especially sophisticated ones like Holland, the UK and Spain, tolerate the continued existence of royalty. Even if the royals have little or no power, they are a waste of money and resources and are an insult to the concept of (representational) democracy.
Click to expand...

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But there you are.
 
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