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Bowe Bergdahl, U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan, freed in swap

Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Glen Contrarian said:
Riiiiiight. Yeah, the Obama administration really tried to put a screeching halt to drilling, huh?

NOT.

That, sir, is only an assumption on your part. Try actually going with the real numbers, instead of with your assumptions. Let the NUMBERS - and not partisan rhetoric - be your guide.



So...why is it, then, that we are now a net oil EXPORTER, but our prices have not dropped? Why is that? We haven't added any extra taxes on gas since we became an oil exporter, so you can't blame the government...so WHY is it that our prices haven't gone down?

Of course, we can't blame Big Oil...because they're very, very patriotic and would never ever squeeze the market for as much as it could get. They wouldn't close down or reduce production at refineries in order to decrease supply and thus keep prices high, would they?



Did we become energy independent when we became a net oil exporter? No. We could double our current oil production and we'd still be importing oil. Why? Because ALL oil production is fungible - it goes on the world market as soon as it's pumped. As long as there are other nations drilling oil more cheaply than we do (and they always will since much of ours is now done through more-expensive fracking), we will always import oil...no matter how much we drill.



Yeah, the government's SO terrible with those onerous regulations, huh? BTW, you did hear about the Gulf oil spill, right? You know, the one that happened because BP was too doggone cheap to buy a $500K part that would have prevented the spill...the same part that other major oil producers like Brazil and Norway require?

Here's a clue, guy - if you want to see how great it is when government doesn't regulate oil drilling, go look at what's happened again and again and again in third-world nations where the drilling faces little regulation or has no regulation at all.



AGAIN, guy - when we became a net oil exporter, WHY did our prices at the pump not fall? According to the we-love-Big-Oil Right, if only we'd get out of Big Oil's way and let them drill all they want to, our prices at the pump would fall, right?

Well, we're not only drilling more now than EVER before, but we're also a net oil EXPORTER...meaning that we can't use all the oil we're drilling.

And have our prices at the pump fallen? Have they? NO.

And you call that "not relevant". WHY HAVEN'T THE PRICES FALLEN? Big Oil is drilling more than ever before, we can't use all they're producing, and STILL our prices have not fallen.

Can you not see a problem there?
Click to expand...

Ever hear of the drilling moratorium?
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Glen Contrarian said:
Did we become energy independent when we became a net oil exporter? No. We could double our current oil production and we'd still be importing oil. Why? Because ALL oil production is fungible - it goes on the world market as soon as it's pumped. As long as there are other nations drilling oil more cheaply than we do (and they always will since much of ours is now done through more-expensive fracking), we will always import oil...no matter how much we drill.
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The 450k barrels was a net number. We are using 2 million barrels less because of Obama's anti-industrial policies. So we need to abolish the EPA. It is unconstitutional anyway.

And more to the point, if you want the free flow of oil at market prices then military presence will continue to be a requirement. If we are producing a large percentage of the world's oil then we can use oil as a weapon and reduce the exposure of our military in the Middle East.
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Glen Contrarian said:
Yeah, the government's SO terrible with those onerous regulations, huh? BTW, you did hear about the Gulf oil spill, right? You know, the one that happened because BP was too doggone cheap to buy a $500K part that would have prevented the spill...the same part that other major oil producers like Brazil and Norway require?
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It was government regulations that forced drilling in far deeper waters than would have been necessary.

We agree. The federal government has become a monster and a menace. The EPA needs to be abolished. Fire the people. Sell the furniture and the buildings.

Here's a clue, guy - if you want to see how great it is when government doesn't regulate oil drilling, go look at what's happened again and again and again in third-world nations where the drilling faces little regulation or has no regulation at all.
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I believe that every state as its equivalent of the environmental protection agency for managing problems within each state. This is a reasonable state police power. There is no constitutional provision for the federal government having this power.

Why do you believe that eliminating a portion of the police state will result in eliminating all regulations? It is a silly argument.

AGAIN, guy - when we became a net oil exporter, WHY did our prices at the pump not fall? According to the we-love-Big-Oil Right, if only we'd get out of Big Oil's way and let them drill all they want to, our prices at the pump would fall, right?
Click to expand...
Do you believe my argument was about falling prices? I do not recall writing it.
My argument is that as long as a large amount of the oil we use comes from, or passes through the middle east then we will have a large interest in it. To lower our interest we need to greatly reduce our dependency, guy.
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Glen Contrarian said:
AGAIN, guy - when we became a net oil exporter, WHY did our prices at the pump not fall? According to the we-love-Big-Oil Right, if only we'd get out of Big Oil's way and let them drill all they want to, our prices at the pump would fall, right?

Well, we're not only drilling more now than EVER before, but we're also a net oil EXPORTER...meaning that we can't use all the oil we're drilling.

And have our prices at the pump fallen? Have they? NO.

And you call that "not relevant". WHY HAVEN'T THE PRICES FALLEN? Big Oil is drilling more than ever before, we can't use all they're producing, and STILL our prices have not fallen.

Can you not see a problem there?
Click to expand...
The problem I see is that you are yelling to oppose a point that I did not make. Perhaps you should try countering the point I did make.
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Misterveritis said:
The problem I see is that you are yelling to oppose a point that I did not make. Perhaps you should try countering the point I did make.
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50 states on their own cannot be trusted to create a cohesive national policy regarding the enviroment.
 
Re: Making a weak case to not drill for any more oil in the US

Glen Contrarian said:
You'd have a point...if the use of oil throughout the world wasn't skyrocketing. And it will continue to skyrocket until something bad happens, whatever that something bad may be (and no, I don't want any of us to see it).

In any case, RIGHT NOW we cannot use all the oil that Big Oil is producing...yet still the prices at the pump haven't fallen.

You really, truly don't see a problem with that? Time to take off the blinders, guy.
Click to expand...

I offer your advice to you. Why are you obsessed with what we pay? The government gets most of the benefit and shares none of the risk nor the work.

My argument was not about price. It was about dependence on middle east oil and its impact on US foreign policy. If you want to see prices drop then eliminate all federal taxes on oil. Tax it locally at whatever rate the sales tax is. Let none of the money flow to Big Government.
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Jack Hays said:
A fair case can be made that the increase has been despite BHO rather than because of BHO.

[h=3]Obama Stymies Oil and Natural Gas Production on Federal ...[/h]www.forbes.com/.../obama-stymies-oil-and-natural-gas-productio...Forbes


Apr 17, 2014 - Although the federal government heavily regulates the exploration and ... According to the CRS report, oil production on federal lands actually ...
Click to expand...
Yes.

According to the CRS report, oil production on federal lands actually fell 6 percent between 2009 and 2013. Over the same period of time, oil production increased by an astounding 61 percent on state and private lands.​
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Unitedwestand13 said:
50 states on their own cannot be trusted to create a cohesive national policy regarding the enviroment.
Click to expand...


Apparently neither can a centralized 'federal' government.
 
Beaudreaux said:
U.S. soldier held in Afghanistan is released - CNN.com



I'm extremely happy that this guy is coming home.

The White House says this was a prisoner swap, for five "terrorists" (my word, not theirs) being held at Gitmo.

That said, there are a lot of questions to be answered here. Just a few are:

Why did Bergdahl "wander off" from the base and get captured in the first place? He had sent a number of emails to his parents saying he was having second thoughts about joining the Army, for instance. Technically, he was AWOL when he left the base and got captured. Did he go off base just to take a walk and think? Or, was it desertion? We won't know until he's debriefed.

Why did we agree to release five terrorists? The names of the five released terrorists are Khair Ulla Said Wali Khairkhwa, Mullah Mohammad Fazl, Mullah Norullah Nori, Abdul Haq Wasiq and Mohammad Nabi Omari. Not just some enemy soldiers doing their job as members of another national army. These guys were hard core terrorists.

What happened to "We don't negotiate with terrorists?"

Did they pin these guys before releasing them?

Are they being tracked?

And, many other questions.

None of which should lessen the fact that we've finally lived up to our military creed of Leave No Man Behind. As I started my comments above: I'm extremely happy that this guy is coming home.
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Yes there are many questions to be answered, and I am making no judgment until all of them are answered.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
It doesn't matter if YOU think their perception is misguided, their loyalty misplaced. YOUR opinion - and mine - does not matter. What matters is what THEY think - it's THEIR nation, THEIR culture, THEIR people, THEIR way of life. We can't just go in and say "do things the way we say you should" at the point of a gun. It never, ever works that way.
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Not all Afghanis are radical Islamist, and not Afghanis are Pro Taliban.

In fact there are Afganis who have taken up arms against the Taliban and who've also sheltered American troops from harm.

One notable example would be the small village who rescued and took in Marcus Lutrell.

Obama just released 5 Taliban leaders back into the waiting arms of their terrorist buddies for a deserter.

Amd then he lied to us repeatedly in a desperate attempt to mitigate away this latest foreign policy failure

Thats a kick in the face to all the American soldiers AND Afgani people who've lost their lives fighting a terrorist organization.
 
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Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

apdst said:
Ever hear of the drilling moratorium?
Click to expand...

You mean the one that was enacted immediately after the Gulf oil spill? That's not some kind of 'war on oil' - that's the same thing the government does to the airlines if there's a problem seen with a certain kind of plane, or what the government does to the military as a whole if there's a big safety or conduct problem that needs to be addressed. That wasn't some kind of "war on oil" move - that was the government getting Big Oil's attention and telling it that it needs to take some time to make sure all its s**t is in one sock.
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Jack Hays said:
A fair case can be made that the increase has been despite BHO rather than because of BHO.

[h=3]Obama Stymies Oil and Natural Gas Production on Federal ...[/h]www.forbes.com/.../obama-stymies-oil-and-natural-gas-productio...Forbes


Apr 17, 2014 - Although the federal government heavily regulates the exploration and ... According to the CRS report, oil production on federal lands actually ...
Click to expand...

Yes, according to the report you referenced:

According to the CRS report, oil production on federal lands actually fell 6 percent between 2009 and 2013. Over the same period of time, oil production increased by an astounding 61 percent on state and private lands. The decrease in federal production is not insubstantial but requires context in the form of state and private production numbers. As a result of these massive gains, crude oil production on state and private lands has risen by 2.1 million barrels per day. That increase alone is more than Algeria, Libya, Qatar, and Norway produce– all countries with storied oil reputations – and explains why the U.S. is on track to be the world’s largest oil producer.

...

Unfortunately, these words amount to nothing more than lip service. Natural gas production on federal lands decreased by an astounding 28 percent from 2009 to 2013 while natural gas production on non-federal lands increased by 33 percent from 2009 to 2013. Actions speak louder than words.

Yes, the Obama administration isn't eager for Big Oil to drill on federal land...but y'all are forgetting something: just because there's oil in them thar hills doesn't mean that we should go get it Right Now. Oil and natural gas are finite resources...and because they are finite, it's not wise to open them all up Right Now.

As we can see, even with the truly significant increase in oil and natural gas production we have NOT seen a drop in our gas prices...so why put allow even more drilling? Why not keep as much as we can in reserve, for when we truly do need it? You know as well as I do that when we truly do need it, the government would certainly give it up. Seems to me that - even from a non-AGW, non-green point of view - keeping the oil and gas in federal lands in reserve until the day that we truly do need it (and no, that day is not today) is a very smart move.
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Glen Contrarian said:
Yes, according to the report you referenced:

According to the CRS report, oil production on federal lands actually fell 6 percent between 2009 and 2013. Over the same period of time, oil production increased by an astounding 61 percent on state and private lands. The decrease in federal production is not insubstantial but requires context in the form of state and private production numbers. As a result of these massive gains, crude oil production on state and private lands has risen by 2.1 million barrels per day. That increase alone is more than Algeria, Libya, Qatar, and Norway produce– all countries with storied oil reputations – and explains why the U.S. is on track to be the world’s largest oil producer.

...

Unfortunately, these words amount to nothing more than lip service. Natural gas production on federal lands decreased by an astounding 28 percent from 2009 to 2013 while natural gas production on non-federal lands increased by 33 percent from 2009 to 2013. Actions speak louder than words.

Yes, the Obama administration isn't eager for Big Oil to drill on federal land...but y'all are forgetting something: just because there's oil in them thar hills doesn't mean that we should go get it Right Now. Oil and natural gas are finite resources...and because they are finite, it's not wise to open them all up Right Now.

As we can see, even with the truly significant increase in oil and natural gas production we have NOT seen a drop in our gas prices...so why put allow even more drilling? Why not keep as much as we can in reserve, for when we truly do need it? You know as well as I do that when we truly do need it, the government would certainly give it up. Seems to me that - even from a non-AGW, non-green point of view - keeping the oil and gas in federal lands in reserve until the day that we truly do need it (and no, that day is not today) is a very smart move.
Click to expand...

No. It's not smart. The smart moment is when the market calls for it. Regardless, the point is made: BHO has been an impediment.:peace
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Glen Contrarian said:
You mean the one that was enacted immediately after the Gulf oil spill? That's not some kind of 'war on oil' - that's the same thing the government does to the airlines if there's a problem seen with a certain kind of plane, or what the government does to the military as a whole if there's a big safety or conduct problem that needs to be addressed. That wasn't some kind of "war on oil" move - that was the government getting Big Oil's attention and telling it that it needs to take some time to make sure all its s**t is in one sock.
Click to expand...

How many train derailments, witj hazmat leaks, have there been in the past few years? I haven't seen any restrictions placed on the railroads.
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Bowe the terrorist, Bowe the deserter, growing tired of this repeated use of Bergdahl as a plaything for wealthy politicians.

Two can play that game, ya know...

They called McCain "The Songbird" and if you dig deep enough you can find plenty of Vietnam vets who have no love for the man.
Seems like a lot of folks have a very short memory.

Kerry's in there too ;)

 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Bowe the terrorist, Bowe the deserter, growing tired of this repeated use of Bergdahl as a plaything for wealthy politicians.

Two can play that game, ya know...

They called McCain "The Songbird" and if you dig deep enough you can find plenty of Vietnam vets who have no love for the man.
Seems like a lot of folks have a very short memory.

Kerry's in there too ;)

Click to expand...


Hogwash.:peace

[h=3]Hanoi Hilton songbird - PolitiFact[/h]www.politifact.com/...john-mccain/no-evidence-mccain-w...PolitiFact.com


Jan 17, 2008 - John McCain's presidential campaign, a new flyer says the Arizona ... Says McCain was a "Hanoi Hilton songbird" who collaborated with the ...
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Bowe the terrorist, Bowe the deserter, growing tired of this repeated use of Bergdahl as a plaything for wealthy politicians.

Two can play that game, ya know...

They called McCain "The Songbird" and if you dig deep enough you can find plenty of Vietnam vets who have no love for the man.
Seems like a lot of folks have a very short memory.

Kerry's in there too ;)

Click to expand...


McCain was captured, he didn't desert so he could go out and make contact with the Vietcong.

Bergdahl DID desert and WAS actively trying to make contact with the enemy.

The SAME ENEMY that took the lives of 6 Americans who put their lives on the line so they could find the missing Bergdahl.

Enough with the irrelevant McCain references.

You guys are obviously getting desperate, and I personally think thats a good thing.
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Glen Contrarian said:
Yes, according to the report you referenced:

According to the CRS report, oil production on federal lands actually fell 6 percent between 2009 and 2013. Over the same period of time, oil production increased by an astounding 61 percent on state and private lands. The decrease in federal production is not insubstantial but requires context in the form of state and private production numbers. As a result of these massive gains, crude oil production on state and private lands has risen by 2.1 million barrels per day. That increase alone is more than Algeria, Libya, Qatar, and Norway produce– all countries with storied oil reputations – and explains why the U.S. is on track to be the world’s largest oil producer.

...

Unfortunately, these words amount to nothing more than lip service. Natural gas production on federal lands decreased by an astounding 28 percent from 2009 to 2013 while natural gas production on non-federal lands increased by 33 percent from 2009 to 2013. Actions speak louder than words.

Yes, the Obama administration isn't eager for Big Oil to drill on federal land...but y'all are forgetting something: just because there's oil in them thar hills doesn't mean that we should go get it Right Now. Oil and natural gas are finite resources...and because they are finite, it's not wise to open them all up Right Now.

As we can see, even with the truly significant increase in oil and natural gas production we have NOT seen a drop in our gas prices...so why put allow even more drilling? Why not keep as much as we can in reserve, for when we truly do need it? You know as well as I do that when we truly do need it, the government would certainly give it up. Seems to me that - even from a non-AGW, non-green point of view - keeping the oil and gas in federal lands in reserve until the day that we truly do need it (and no, that day is not today) is a very smart move.
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Then it is time for the Federal government to start selling the massive amount of land it holds. I believe we need a Constitutional amendment that says the federal government can hold no more land in any state than it does in the average of the three states that it has its smallest holdings. Further that no state may be more than 10% owned by the federal government.

Is what you did frequently called moving the goalposts?
 
Hey, I'm just using the same metrics your group has already used, i.e., "Bergdahl made propaganda films for the enemy" etc.
I never said Bergdahl was a hero or even an innocent man either, find one place where I did, please?
Please, find one reference to anything I've said where I paint him as something other than a dumbass who screwed up.

In fact, I said he had no earthly business even joining the military and I also said he made an incredibly stupid mistake.
But your group...wow, just wow. Your bunch has been calling for a firing squad and for his family to be lined up next to him, damn near.
The blood and spittle emanating from the right wing here is an echo chamber for the big agitprop machine on cable of course.

So if anyone's been getting desperate, it's you, because either you do not read my posts, or you have signs of Alzheimer's because you can't remember my position on the guy, so you automatically default to the dog whistle du jour.

I said, for the record, (not that you'll read this either of course) that if he is guilty of misconduct, let it come out via the military's legal system which is in place for such matters.

And it's a fact that some of McCain's fellow prisoners have no love for the guy, sorry if that hits a nerve. Take it up with them. ;)
So you can run around with soprano hysteria all you like, but the fact is, any mention of not bringing the guy home is un-american, and it sends a very bad message.
And the fact is, trying him in your kangaroo courts and using him as a political football shows a lack of maturity.

391488_3645980704453_2026020978a_n.jpg
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Hey, I'm just using the same metrics your group has already used, i.e., "Bergdahl made propaganda films for the enemy" etc.
I never said Bergdahl was a hero or even an innocent man either, find one place where I did, please?
Please, find one reference to anything I've said where I paint him as something other than a dumbass who screwed up.

In fact, I said he had no earthly business even joining the military and I also said he made an incredibly stupid mistake.
But your group...wow, just wow. Your bunch has been calling for a firing squad and for his family to be lined up next to him, damn near.
The blood and spittle emanating from the right wing here is an echo chamber for the big agitprop machine on cable of course.
Click to expand...

Anyone else find it entertaining that he starts by complaining that he is being misrepresented, and then turns immediately around to misrepresent others?
 
cpwill said:
...and then turns immediately around to misrepresent others?
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By saying you're the ones sounding desperate?

Oh and...was I complaining? Nope, don't think so.
I'm asking you to find one instance where I defend Bergdahl.
If that's complaining well okayfinewhatever :roll:
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Hey, I'm just using the same metrics your group has already used, i.e., "Bergdahl made propaganda films for the enemy" etc.
I never said Bergdahl was a hero or even an innocent man either, find one place where I did, please?
Please, find one reference to anything I've said where I paint him as something other than a dumbass who screwed up.

In fact, I said he had no earthly business even joining the military and I also said he made an incredibly stupid mistake.
But your group...wow, just wow. Your bunch has been calling for a firing squad and for his family to be lined up next to him, damn near.
The blood and spittle emanating from the right wing here is an echo chamber for the big agitprop machine on cable of course.

So if anyone's been getting desperate, it's you, because either you do not read my posts, or you have signs of Alzheimer's because you can't remember my position on the guy, so you automatically default to the dog whistle du jour.

I said, for the record, (not that you'll read this either of course) that if he is guilty of misconduct, let it come out via the military's legal system which is in place for such matters.

And it's a fact that some of McCain's fellow prisoners have no love for the guy, sorry if that hits a nerve. Take it up with them. ;)
So you can run around with soprano hysteria all you like, but the fact is, any mention of not bringing the guy home is un-american, and it sends a very bad message.
And the fact is, trying him in your kangaroo courts and using him as a political football shows a lack of maturity.

View attachment 67167778
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Seriously, we're " calling for the firing squad " ??

Someone here said he should be shot ?
And what Kangaroo Court are you refering to ?

And you're guilty of quite a but of misrepresentation yourself.

Ill believe the guys that served with him anyday over ANYONE who speaks for the Obama administration and according to them HE DESERTED.

You dont like it, too bad. Suck it up.

Next time try NOT defending a bunch of corruption incompetents.

On top of that Obama returned 5 really bad guys to their terrorist buddies and then LIED about Bergdahl's serving with " distinction and honor "

So they can not only continue to kill American soldiers but also the Afghanis who oppose the Taliban.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
It doesn't matter if YOU think their perception is misguided, their loyalty misplaced. YOUR opinion - and mine - does not matter. What matters is what THEY think - it's THEIR nation, THEIR culture, THEIR people, THEIR way of life. We can't just go in and say "do things the way we say you should" at the point of a gun. It never, ever works that way.
Click to expand...

Dear God! I was talking about YOUR perceptions, YOUR loyalties....
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

Jack Hays said:
No. It's not smart. The smart moment is when the market calls for it. Regardless, the point is made: BHO has been an impediment.:peace
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Just because people think the market 'calls for it' doesn't make it smart. Not at all. That's the stuff of which gluts are made.
 
Re: Free flow of oil in a world market

apdst said:
How many train derailments, witj hazmat leaks, have there been in the past few years? I haven't seen any restrictions placed on the railroads.
Click to expand...

Of those train derailments with hazmat leaks, how many affected hundreds of miles of coastline and cost tens of thousands of jobs - 12K jobs in Louisiana alone according to the not-exactly-left-wing governor's office there?
 
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