US soldier freed from captivity in Afghanistan

braindrain · Jun 2, 2014

APACHERAT said:
Half of the Harley Riders wear beards ?

It's 2014 not 1968.

I see that you are just ignoring my post and Glen's that prove your whole promoting POWs is unheard of in the US nonsense to be the total BS that it is. How very typical of you.

jonny5 · Jun 2, 2014

Glen Contrarian said:
We swapped prisoners with the North Koreans, the Chinese, and the North Vietnamese. Are you going to say they weren't our enemies? Each of them killed a lot more Americans than has al-Qaeda (or the Taliban which is NOT al-Qaeda but was the 'government' of Afghanistan when we invaded).

Swapping prisoners is something we and other nations have done since before any of us were born.

And here's something else to think about, guy - if we as a nation said, "We're not going to do whatever it takes to bring you home alive", what would that do to the morale of our soldiers in the field, if they knew that America might decide that they weren't worth whatever it took to bring them home alive?

They know very well we wont do whatever it takes. We wont hand over the President for example. Or surrender forces in theatre. Or give them nukes to get our soldiers back. We will do whatever we can that doesnt make things worse, which handing over high level terrorists DOES.

Furthermore, we dont generally exchanges prisoners DURING a war. We wait till its over and they wont go right back to fighting.

apdst · Jun 2, 2014

TheNextEra said:
Sorry, but that simply isn't true. Putting them on trial and sentencing them for life is better than just holding them without trial. That is FACT. That is the reality YOU need to face.

Your primary argument is that holding them without trial will make the Muslms hate us.

TheNextEra · Jun 2, 2014

apdst said:
Your primary argument is that holding them without trial will make the Muslms hate us.

For some, yes, that would make a difference. I also said that the propaganda from us detaining them without trial is worse than putting them on trial and sentencing them to life.

Thoreau72 · Jun 2, 2014

j-mac said:
Morning HD...Why bring a strawman into the discussion? I said nothing about him being dangerous I don't think...So, using your line of logic, you think this was a good trade?

Morning to you too JMac.

It wasn't intended as a strawman at all. Your point that other posters at another site had thoughts that Bowe was a Taliban sympathizer inspired my reply. Just a matter of perspective, I guess?

I was just trying to find the perspective of such a sympathizer, and wondered if Powell's actions in 2001 with the Taliban somehow offered some insight?

Do they work for us, or we for them? $43million is nothing to sneeze at. 6 months later we invade their country under fraud.

Just trying to figure it all out JMac.

apdst · Jun 2, 2014

TheNextEra said:
For some, yes, that would make a difference. I also said that the propaganda from us detaining them without trial is worse than putting them on trial and sentencing them to life.

It wouldn't make a difference for any, because they would just say the trials were rigged.

TheNextEra · Jun 2, 2014

apdst said:
It wouldn't make a difference for any, because they would just say the trials were rigged.

So you are saying you know 100% that it wouldn't? Since when do you speak for every single Muslim in the ME?

eohrnberger · Jun 2, 2014

apdst said:
Your primary argument is that holding them without trial will make the Muslms hate us.

Yes, that's what's said, but I'm not so sure.

If you look at the culture that the Islamic extremists put into place when they gain control of an area, it's Sharia based, with stoning and such, no music allowed, etc. as well as 'Morality Squads' which enforce these laws with public beatings.

When an area is exposed to western culture, much of it bleeds in. Jeans for example, were a US / Western invention, and have since been exported to the rest of the world. Same could be said for music, movies, and many other cultural aspects, all of which are antithetical to Wahhabi and Islamic fundamentalism.

Cultural tension in spades, that's for sure.

Further, the west is more centered around the seperation of church and state, religion and laws / legal. Again, an instance where fundamental Islamic norms are antithetical.

So I'm not sure their hate of the west can be 100% attributable to the mere holding of individuals. I'm sure the western people this would be a reason, hate another country, and it may be that we are imposing that view point or cultural framework, but I don't think it's the one that drives the Islamic fundamentals crazy, as much as the cultural aspects.

apdst · Jun 2, 2014

TheNextEra said:
So you are saying you know 100% that it wouldn't? Since when do you speak for every single Muslim in the ME?

The ones that hate us will always hate us.

TheNextEra · Jun 2, 2014

apdst said:
The ones that hate us will always hate us.

And you think every single Muslim in the ME hates us. That is why your position is absurd because you claim to know the mindset of every single Muslim in the ME.

Capster78 · Jun 2, 2014

shrubnose said:
A lot of things that should happen will never come to pass.

This man will never be put on trial but, on the other hand, no one will ever pin any medals on his chest.

Some people will never accept that, but me, I'm just going to move on with my life and look at the 5 years that he spent confined by the Taliban as a down payment on what he owes those who suffered and died because of his actions.

"What goes around, comes around."

BTW: It doesn't really matter, but based on what I know right now I have zero sympathy for this guy.

I do have some for his family, they didn't ask to be involved in this kerfuffle.

The problem with that is, he may have been exactly where he wanted to be. Not much of a punishment to be captured by people you were an apologist of. It would be the equivalent of them sending me to a poker casino to do a 5 year prison term.

cpwill · Jun 2, 2014

TheDemSocialist said:
Mistake post. Thought i was on another thread. :3oops:

Well, how the hell am I supposed to argue with you if you demonstrate the maturity to own up to that sort of thing!?!

Gah.......

Wiggen · Jun 2, 2014

Helix said:
I understand and accept that Helix's rule states that given enough time and participation, a thread about a peanut butter and jelly sandwich will turn into a flame war, but this is even more stunning.

A POW has been released after five years in captivity, and the right is pissed off about it? Seriously?

Five years, man.

Five ****ing years.

By all indications, he deserted and at least a half a dozen soldiers died looking for him. As someone on the left of center and as a veteran, I see nothing admirable about this man.

Helix · Jun 2, 2014

Wiggen said:
By all indications, he deserted and at least a half a dozen soldiers died looking for him. As someone on the left of center and as a veteran, I see nothing admirable about this man.

I appreciate your service, and I mean that in a for real, non passive aggressive way.

That being said, had you messed up and got captured by those assholes, I would still support cleaning out Guantanamo to get you back.

The truth will eventually come out about this one way or the other. What makes me furious is that some immediately made this political because they hate some stupid political figure. Fox will probably spend months ripping this dude. I wonder if they've turned comments back on yet.

Anyway, this whole ****ing thing just really rubbed me the wrong way. I see that the dude is getting out, feel relief, and say as much in the thread. Then I get swarmed by pissed off Republicans.

Maybe this will help : **** both sides. It's one of the most piss poor choices every time I get to vote, and now one half of the duopoly has almost completely eliminated itself from consideration via its behavior.

We need some people who want to help the country more than to promote some stupid political party label. Washington was right on when he warned about both political parties and foreign entanglements.

Either way, I had better start making my way out of the thread. I go between annoyed and furious, and **** that.

Navy Pride · Jun 2, 2014

shrubnose said:
The only American soldier held prisoner in Afghanistan has been freed by the Taliban in exchange for the release of 5 Afghan detainees from the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Obama administration officials said Saturday

Read more here: http://news.yahoo.com/us-soldier-freed-captivity-afghanistan-164824831-politics.html

I am sure that I join everyone on this forum in wishing this young man and his family and friends the best.

We free a possible deserter and we can"t get a marine released from a Mexican jail who received and honorable discharge as well as letting 4 Americans die in Benghazi........Go figure.

apdst · Jun 2, 2014

Helix said:
I appreciate your service, and I mean that in a for real, non passive aggressive way.

That being said, had you messed up and got captured by those assholes, I would still support cleaning out Guantanamo to get you back.

The truth will eventually come out about this one way or the other. What makes me furious is that some immediately made this political because they hate some stupid political figure. Fox will probably spend months ripping this dude. I wonder if they've turned comments back on yet.

Anyway, this whole ****ing thing just really rubbed me the wrong way. I see that the dude is getting out, feel relief, and say as much in the thread. Then I get swarmed by pissed off Republicans.

Maybe this will help : **** both sides. It's one of the most piss poor choices every time I get to vote, and now one half of the duopoly has almost completely eliminated itself from consideration via its behavior.

We need some people who want to help the country more than to promote some stupid political party label. Washington was right on when he warned about both political parties and foreign entanglements.

Either way, I had better start making my way out of the thread. I go between annoyed and furious, and **** that.

So, let me get this straight: we can only criticise presidents that we like?

Helix · Jun 2, 2014

apdst said:
So, let me get this straight: we can only criticise presidents that we like?

this interpretation barely even reaches strawman level. you should consider rereading my post.

apdst · Jun 2, 2014

Navy Pride said:
We free a possible deserter and we can"t get a marine released from a Mexican jail who received and honorable discharge as well as letting 4 Americans die in Benghazi........Go figure.

Hell, we oughta see if the Mexicans want a few Gitmo prisoners.

apdst · Jun 2, 2014

Helix said:
this interpretation barely even reaches strawman level. you should consider rereading my post.

Well, what's really happening is a massive display of your own partisanship. It's the new strategy of the Leftward leaning folks, since "you're a racist" lost most of it's gas, "you're a partisan hack" has taken it's place.

Helix · Jun 2, 2014

apdst said:
Well, what's really happening is a massive display of your own partisanship. It's the new strategy of the Leftward leaning folks, since "you're a racist" lost most of it's gas, "you're a partisan hack" has taken it's place.

this has also been clarified previously. given your repeated and willful mischaracterization of my posts as well as your strawman arguments, i have no desire to discuss this topic with you. good bye.

Arbo · Jun 2, 2014

Helix said:
Bush voter in 2000;

And I voted for Mickey Mouse. Does me saying it make it true?

now i'm reading posts advocating holding prisoners for life without trial and lambasting me for being happy that a POW has been released. i've seen a lot of really partisan stuff, but this is just unbelievable.

Holding enemy combatants, that have attacked and killed our people, while hostilities continue. That is kinda the norm.

You are not being lambasted, it was simply asked if you can see past your narrow view.. if perhaps some of these other stories, from people that were there, could be true and perhaps this guy is not a hero. But it appears just asking to consider anything other than what you already think makes you mad.

And again, it is really poor form to call it 'partisan'. It has nothing to do with parties, it has to do with following the rule of law, it has to do with the possibility that the guy is a deserter and thus is responsible for the deaths of many other Americans, it has to do with releasing terrorists that have attacked and killed Americans… doesn't matter what party the person that did it is…

Helix · Jun 2, 2014

Arbo said:
And I voted for Mickey Mouse. Does me saying it make it true?

my full presidential voting record since age 18 :

1992 : Ross Perot

1996 : DNV

2000 : Bush

2004 : Badnarik

2008 : Obama, because he was running against a hawk, and i was concerned that McCain would make the wars last forever, as well as potentially signing us up for new ones.

2012 : Obama, because you guys ran a candidate who came off as an out of touch plutocrat who was going to give us more failed trickle down nonsense.

believe what you will about my partisan leanings. i am a left leaning independent, and i have posted my political compass publicly on this site. i have also explained the specifics of the evolution of my political views in multiple threads.

Arbo said:
Holding enemy combatants, that have attacked and killed our people, while hostilities continue. That is kinda the norm.

You are not being lambasted, it was simply asked if you can see past your narrow view.. if perhaps some of these other stories, from people that were there, could be true and perhaps this guy is not a hero. But it appears just asking to consider anything other than what you already think makes you mad.

And again, it is really poor form to call it 'partisan'. It has nothing to do with parties, it has to do with following the rule of law, it has to do with the possibility that the guy is a deserter and thus is responsible for the deaths of many other Americans, it has to do with releasing terrorists that have attacked and killed Americans… doesn't matter what party the person that did it is…

if you want to claim that you personally are not making this political, and that you would be making the exact same line of argument in this thread under a Republican president, i will take your word for it.

Arbo · Jun 2, 2014

Helix said:
What makes me furious is that some immediately made this political because they hate some stupid political figure.

If you repeat a lie often enough, it is still a lie.

Arbo · Jun 2, 2014

Helix said:
if you want to claim that you personally are not making this political, and that you would be making the exact same line of argument in this thread under a Republican president, i will take your word for it.

I wouldn't care if the president was Obama or either Bush, or LBJ or Kennedy or Nixon or GOD. The whole issue doesn't pass the stink test. And whoever the president is, they appear to have done wrong, and played a political game.

eohrnberger · Jun 2, 2014

Arbo said:
I wouldn't care if the president was Obama or either Bush, or LBJ or Kennedy or Nixon or GOD. The whole issue doesn't pass the stink test. And whoever the president is, they appear to have done wrong, and played a political game.

I'd have to agree.

And whom is it in the White House who's constantly playing political games?
Playing for political gains? (real or perceived - more often than not just perceived rather than real)
Flexible principals when it comes to the truth, which loses out for political gains? (real or perceived - more often than not just perceived rather than real)

You only get one guess. . . . . .