• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Bloomberg: Universities becoming bastions of intolerance

ThePlayDrive said:
1. Your criticism is based on the false premise that the university students who protested Rice didn't realize that they could learn from her. Perhaps they knew that they could learn from her, but decided that they did not want to because they take issue with her ideas, character or actions. Perhaps they weighed what they could learn from her against how accepting her as a speaker would reflect on them and their university and decided that the lessons she had to offer were not worth the cost of her presence at their school.
Click to expand...

Students take issue with the ideas and actions of people who argue that institutional racism exists or that people like Angela Davis might have some insight worth sharing. We still expect students to be able to cope with the notion that they will be exposed to those ideas and have the speakers speak.

Your criticism is also based on the false premise that students should accept speakers just because they could learn from them. The flaw in this logic is best exposed by an extreme example: a genocidal dictator who has held power for decades being offered to speak at a college commencement. Students could also learn from such a person - perhaps even more than they could learn from Rice - however, I think we would both agree that it would be right for students to object to such an individual speaking at their university. Why would we agree about that? Because we know that people do - and ought to - consider more than just whether or not they can learn from someone when evaluating whether or not it is appropriate or desirable to have that person welcomed to an institution.
Click to expand...

This isn't a genocidal person. Like I said, not all injustices are equal.

You argue that the students need to "grow up". I think it is more grown up to challenge the establishment when one disagrees with it rather than simply cower in the face of it and go along with whatever it decides as most people do.
Click to expand...

Making peace with "the establishment" is part of growing up, as is being able to cope with differing perspectives.

The bottom line is that you are expressing your distaste for those who disagree with you about Rice under the guise of making a neutral assessment of the protesters' character.
Click to expand...

Yet, I don't really agree with the foreign policy she espoused.
 
Jack Fabulous said:
I won't.

And just so we're clear on this, the title of the thread is: "Universities becoming bastions of intolerance". So it would appear that the one moving the goalposts is you.
Click to expand...

You asked the last time a prominent liberal cancelled a speaking arrangement due to protests. I gave you one.

If you don't like it, too ****ing bad.
 
rocket88 said:
You asked the last time a prominent liberal cancelled a speaking arrangement due to protests. I gave you one.

If you don't like it, too ****ing bad.
Click to expand...
And the one basic point of the thread went right over your head... or it didn't and you're hiding from it.

Too ****ing bad indeed.
 
rocket88 said:
You asked the last time a prominent liberal cancelled a speaking arrangement due to protests. I gave you one.

If you don't like it, too ****ing bad.
Click to expand...


No, you didn't, that's the point. Wasn't a university, you know, the topic at hand. You took a swing, you missed by a mile, no need to try to repair the fail. Just find where some liberal had to cancel a speaking arrangement at a university due to protests. Or are you having a problem finding such?
 
Fiddytree said:
Students take issue with the ideas and actions of people who argue that institutional racism exists or that people like Angela Davis might have some insight worth sharing. We still expect students to be able to cope with the notion that they will be exposed to those ideas and have the speakers speak.
Click to expand...
Your criticism is based on the false premise that the students cannot "cope" with the notion that they will be exposed to such ideas. Perhaps the students can cope with such a notion, but they decided that they did not want their university to provide a platform for such ideas.

This isn't a genocidal person. Like I said, not all injustices are equal.
Click to expand...
Your criticism is still based on the false premise that students should accept speakers just because they might learn from them.

Making peace with "the establishment" is part of growing up, as is being able to cope with differing perspectives.
Click to expand...
Again, your criticism is based on the false premise that the students cannot "cope" with differing perspectives. Beyond that, I've already shared my thoughts on what it means to "grow up" in relation to the establishment. I don't see much need to delve further into our thoughts on a social construct as such thoughts are based in entirely subjective foundations.

Yet, I don't really agree with the foreign policy she espoused.
Click to expand...
I did not say that you are expressing your distaste for people who disagree with Rice. I said that you are expressing your distaste for those who disagree with you about Rice. In other words, you believe that what Rice has to offer in lessons outweighs whatever her presence might take away from a university that offers her a platform to speak. Some students at Rutgers disagree with you and you are expressing your distaste for those who disagree under the guise of making neutral assessments of their character and knowledge.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Your criticism is based on the false premise that the students cannot "cope" with the notion that they will be exposed to such ideas. Perhaps the students can cope with such a notion, but they decided that they did not want their university to provide a platform for such ideas.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they cannot cope with hearing someone else speak that they disagree with. It is what it is.

Your criticism is still based on the false premise that students should accept speakers just because they might learn from them.
Click to expand...

Because, comparatively speaking, their complaints are exaggerated.


Again, your criticism is based on the false premise that the students cannot "cope" with differing perspectives. Beyond that, I've already shared my thoughts on what it means to "grow up" in relation to the establishment. I don't see much need to delve further into our thoughts on a social construct as such thoughts are based in entirely subjective foundations.
Click to expand...

Play, you know full well that when we walk into a discussion on institutional racism, people in universities who do not want to have the concept discussed are told by folks like us that they should be exposed to it and they have to cope with it being in their face, even though they are "paying for it" or "their tax dollars" go toward funding the position of the faculty member.
 
Ockham said:
So you can't find one apples to apples. Got it.
Click to expand...

Find the word "University" in the post I responded to.

Jack Fabulous said:
So tell me then... when was the last time a prominent liberal was shouted down or was removed from a speaking engagement due to protest?
Click to expand...

Awww, did I say something mean about your butt buddy?
 
clownboy said:
No, you didn't, that's the point. Wasn't a university, you know, the topic at hand. You took a swing, you missed by a mile, no need to try to repair the fail. Just find where some liberal had to cancel a speaking arrangement at a university due to protests. Or are you having a problem finding such?
Click to expand...

No reference was made to a university in the post to which I replied.

This is only hard to understand if you have a very bad case of CPC. Seems to be going around today.
 
rocket88 said:
It's not my job to validate your CPC.
Click to expand...

Your repeated attempts to repair what was a fail are noted. The thread topic should have given you a context clue. Also glaringly obvious, you failed to find an on point example.
 
The Day - Students put pressure on big names to cancel commencement speeches | News from southeastern Connecticut

At least three prominent leaders - former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, International Monetary Fund Managing Director Christine Lagarde and former University of Califonia, Berkeley, Chancellor Robert Birgeneau - canceled their commencement speeches this spring after a torrent of campus activism.
Click to expand...

Berkeley Chancellor. If the premise of the thread is correct, a conservative never would have gotten that post.
 
rocket88 said:
The Day - Students put pressure on big names to cancel commencement speeches | News from southeastern Connecticut



Berkeley Chancellor. If the premise of the thread is correct, a conservative never would have gotten that post.
Click to expand...

Heh, you didn't read that did you. OR you counted on no one else doing so.

Despite his left-friendly work on immigration, they said they wanted Birgeneau to apologize for campus police who brutalized Occupy Wall Street demonstrators in 2011 - or else they would protest his graduation speech.


In response, Birgeneau decided not to attend the graduation. His cancellation, the most recent of the three, is raising concerns in some quarters that campus leftist groups are putting so much emphasis on social justice issues that they are quashing the spirit of open debate.
Click to expand...
 
clownboy said:
Heh, you didn't read that did you. OR you counted on no one else doing so.
Click to expand...


I read it. I just don't buy that the guys a con. Keep it up though, CPC is really acting up today.
 
Fiddytree said:
Yeah, they cannot cope with hearing someone else speak that they disagree with. It is what it is.
Click to expand...
I don't understand why you insist on representing your assumption as fact, but I don't intend to keep correcting you if you aren't prepared to understand.

Because, comparatively speaking, their complaints are exaggerated.
Click to expand...
This is a subjective assessment and is thus of no greater value than the opinion of the students themselves.

Play, you know full well that when we walk into a discussion on institutional racism, people in universities who do not want to have the concept discussed are told by folks like us that they should be exposed to it and they have to cope with it being in their face, even though they are "paying for it" or "their tax dollars" go toward funding the position of the faculty member.
Click to expand...
This is an inadequate comparison. People who protest discussions of institutional racism are protesting the discussion of truth. People who protest commencement speeches by Condoleezza Rice (or Ray Kelly or Christine Lagarde and so on) are protesting the presence of individuals that they consider undesirable. There is a notable difference between protesting the truth and protesting a person.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
This is an inadequate comparison. People who protest discussions of institutional racism are protesting the discussion of truth.
Click to expand...

They are protesting a theoretical construct with potential validity and a large amount of controversy. I subscribe to it, but it's not uncontested, nor should it be thought as unquestioned truth. Nevertheless, students ought to be exposed to it.
 
Fiddytree said:
They are protesting a theoretical construct with potential validity and a large amount of controversy. I subscribe to it, but it's not uncontested, nor should it be thought as unquestioned truth. Nevertheless, students ought to be exposed to it.
Click to expand...
They are protesting a person and her individual actions as much, if not more, than they are protesting the "theoretical construct" that that person advocates. Regardless, their protests are not evidence alone that they have not been adequately exposed to Rice and her ideas. Again, perhaps the students have been exposed and have simply decided that they do not want their university to provide a platform for such ideas.

Why are you unwilling to accept that students can be both adequately exposed to idea and uninterested in providing a platform for it?
 
rocket88 said:
I read it. I just don't buy that the guys a con. Keep it up though, CPC is really acting up today.
Click to expand...

I see, you read it, just failed to comprehend what it said. It confirms the OP.

In response, Birgeneau decided not to attend the graduation. His cancellation, the most recent of the three, is raising concerns in some quarters that campus leftist groups are putting so much emphasis on social justice issues that they are quashing the spirit of open debate.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom