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US to keep nearly 10k troops in Afghanistan after 2014.

Ikari said:
Our continued military interventionism plays right into the hands of the terrorist propaganda machine.
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Our withdrawal could result in the overthrow of a democratic government.

But you're fine with that, ay?
 
ecofarm said:
Yes, the US just loves bombing civilians. We can't get enough of it! We gotta keep troops in country so we can keep doing it!!

:roll:
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Seems to be the trend. Just gorging ourselves on the death and destruction of our fellow humans. No thought, no intelligence, no plan; just infinity war. Only the sickest of the sick can endorse infinity war.
 
Ikari said:
Seems to be the trend. Just gorging ourselves on the death and destruction of our fellow humans. No thought, no intelligence, no plan; just infinity war.
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What a sick and twisted point of view. It must be some kind of hell to think like that.

If you honestly believe that, how can you not leave the country and renounce citizenship? If I believed that, I would. I would not accept it and live in such a country. I have standards and a moral conscience. But you still live here. That makes me question whether you actually like that idea.
 
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ecofarm said:
Our withdrawal could result in the overthrow of a democratic government.

But you're fine with that, ay?
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Governments obtain their legitimacy through the consent of the governed. If you are not of the governed, you have no proper say. End of story.

But we could engage in our own propaganda if we were really interested in breaking the cycle. Building roads and schools and hospitals would go a much further way to producing a more Western sympathetic Middle East than blowing up friends and family could ever do.
 
Ikari said:
Governments obtain their legitimacy through the consent of the governed. If you are not of the governed, you have no proper say. End of story.
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That's BS. Who made it up, you?
 
ecofarm said:
What a sick and twisted point of view. It must be some kind of hell to think like that.

If you honestly believe that, how can you not leave the country and renounce citizenship? If I believed that, I would. I wouldn't accept it an live in such a country. But you still live here. That makes me question whether you actually like that idea.
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Because I believe in the America that can be. The true beacon to the world as to what freedom and liberty could be; and I fight and push to return to that. To remove the tarnish on this shining city upon the hill.

We are capable of oh so much more, and it is for that future I move. You may be OK with killing off as much of the world as possible, but I'm not and I see it as beneath America. We are the greatest, the brightest, the best; and it is time to once again understand our potential and the responsibility that comes with it.
 
ecofarm said:
That's BS. Who made it up, you?
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Who made it up to you? You don't seem to actually be able to counter that argument and thus are left with trite and pathetic deflections as you've posted here.
 
Ikari said:
Because I believe in the America that can be. The true beacon to the world as to what freedom and liberty could be; and I fight and push to return to that. To remove the tarnish on this shining city upon the hill.

We are capable of oh so much more, and it is for that future I move. You may be OK with killing off as much of the world as possible, but I'm not and I see it as beneath America. We are the greatest, the brightest, the best; and it is time to once again understand our potential and the responsibility that comes with it.
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That's a load of crap.

You willingly remain a citizen of a country that you believe ~"gorges itself on the blood of innocents".

That's disgusting. How can you live with yourself? If I was you, I would leave because I have some self respect.
 
ecofarm said:
Correct, that's the plan... as opposed to them overrunning the democratic government.

I understand if you don't care about people in Afghanistan, but some of us do.
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So your plan is to hold their hand, how long will that take? Historically speaking Afghanistan hasn't been a very stable countryfor the past few centuries.
 
ecofarm said:
That's a load of crap.

You willingly remain a citizen of a country that you believe ~"gorges itself on the blood of innocents".

That's disgusting. How can you live with yourself? If I was you, I would leave because I have some self respect.
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So pretty much you have no defense and have to engage in this pathetic and intellectually dishonest line of "argument". Understood, seems to be about right.
 
Ikari said:
Who made it up to you? You don't seem to actually be able to counter that argument and thus are left with trite and pathetic deflections as you've posted here.
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It's a stupid argument. It asks that we stand aside and allow genocide.

It's as disgusting an idea as remaining a citizen of a country one believes gorges itself on the blood of innocents.

Both of your positions are so vile, it's hard to believe someone could live with themselves.
 
Higgins86 said:
So your plan is to hold their hand, how long will that take? Historically speaking Afghanistan hasn't been a very stable countryfor the past few centuries.
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Big war imperialists have a hard time seeing things in other terms.
 
ecofarm said:
It's a stupid argument. It asks that we stand aside and allow genocide.

It's as disgusting an idea as remaining a citizen of a country one believes gorges itself on the blood of innocents.

Both of your positions are so vile, it's hard to believe someone could live with themselves.
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Functionally that is what we've done. You can be as pissed at reality as you want to be. But end of the day, reality is reality.
 
Ikari said:
Yes, it's been quite the success over the past 13 or so years, yes? All that stability we've brought to the region. Really making a positive impact on the daily lives of the people.
:roll:
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You are absolutely correct and I am extremely sorry for any slight.

Have a Super Sparkly Day.
 
soot said:
I can't speak for all Americans, but I've been furious with our troop presence there for, oh, I don't know, about a decade now.

Thing is, there's absolutely nothing we can do about it.
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You could stop voting for the same people.
 
Higgins86 said:
BBC News - US to keep 9,800 Afghanistan troops after 2014


If I was an American I would be furious with this. It's going to keep coming out of the tax payers pocket and the servicemen/women over there will remain targets for the foreseeable future.
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But whats the alternative? Bring them all home? What happens when AQ moves back in? Im not really furious about troops being there, but rather with troops being there with no apparent purpose, and forgotten by the country they serve.
 
Ikari said:
Governments obtain their legitimacy through the consent of the governed. If you are not of the governed, you have no proper say. End of story.

But we could engage in our own propaganda if we were really interested in breaking the cycle. Building roads and schools and hospitals would go a much further way to producing a more Western sympathetic Middle East than blowing up friends and family could ever do.
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Not sure if you realize this but we have built roads, schools and hospitals over there. Lots of them. As well as irrigation projects, wells and district centers.
Arguing from a position of ignorance is not helpful.

With that said I do feel that the time to pull out was as soon as we said we were going to leave. The moment you tell the enemy you are quitting is the time to leave. Not years later.
 
Higgins86 said:
The ANA and the ANP are one thing however the Taliban are still receving help from many people from village elders, afghan government and normal local people. In my opinion the only thing a continued US presence guarantees is that the Taliban will still have a western enemy to target and to use as a recruiting tool in the country.
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Poll after poll shows that the vast majority of Afghans are not favorable to the Taliban and view them as the greatest security threat facing the country. This is a vicious and dangerous minority seeking to force itself onto the majority.
 
Higgins86 said:
BBC News - US to keep 9,800 Afghanistan troops after 2014


If I was an American I would be furious with this. It's going to keep coming out of the tax payers pocket and the servicemen/women over there will remain targets for the foreseeable future.
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I think if keeping 10,000 troops in Afghanistan to train and help equip the Afghan military to defend themselves and stand on their own two feet so we can leave at sometime in the future it is worth. A train the trainers type program. But it shouldn't take ten years to make this happen, to accomplish that mission. This leaves me with a sneaking suspicion that we, the good old USA want our troops there for another reason. Perhaps a geopolitical reason, a home base of sorts. But when it comes to politicians, they always have sneaky agendas and the state purpose of something usually isn't.
 
Sherman123 said:
I completely support the decision to not completely abandon the ANA and the Afghan people to their fate. I hope that our presence can help make the difference in their fight against the Taliban and its allies.
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Should we become the eternal babysitters for all the countries of the world? Is 13 years not enough? You can only help someone so much, at some point they have to get off their lazy asses and do something for themselves.

Perotista said:
I think if keeping 10,000 troops in Afghanistan to train and help equip the Afghan military to defend themselves and stand on their own two feet so we can leave at sometime in the future it is worth. A train the trainers type program. But it shouldn't take ten years to make this happen, to accomplish that mission. This leaves me with a sneaking suspicion that we, the good old USA want our troops there for another reason. Perhaps a geopolitical reason, a home base of sorts. But when it comes to politicians, they always have sneaky agendas and the state purpose of something usually isn't.
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Do you realize that we've been "training the trainers" since we've been there? That has been our primary mission since 2003. So you're already wrong about it not taking more than 10 years. It shouldn't take that long, but here we are. How much is enough? 20? 30? 40 years?

Sherman123 said:
I could be the greatest coward in history and it wouldn't have any bearing on my position.
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Exactly. You don't have to go so who cares right?
 
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CRUE CAB said:
Yea, people need to show up and vote for people that wont waste out tax dollars.
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You mean vote for politicians who promise to end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and bring all our troops home?

Yeah, I've tried that.

Politicians will say damn near any old thing on the stump, some of which they actually mean and other of which they're just saying because that's the way the wind is blowing at the moment.

As far as the former is concerned, having the best of intentions in nice, but if you can't get 2/3 of everyone else with the power to change things to agree with you, you're kinda left with your hands tied.

As far as the latter is concerned, #BringBackOurBoys might get you into the Oval Office, but legacies aren't made by having your ships sitting in port.

All of this completely ignores the fact that the two parties who actually are going to get elected are essentially in collusion and are two sides of the same coin, so forget getting anything worthwhile done while either Democrats or Republicans are in charge of anything.

I keep voting Libertarian or some other 3rd Party and I keep seeing my candidates lose because this country is populated by ****ing idiots.
 
jonny5 said:
But whats the alternative? Bring them all home? What happens when AQ moves back in? Im not really furious about troops being there, but rather with troops being there with no apparent purpose, and forgotten by the country they serve.
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You leave 10k of troops and I promise the media/ the people back home forget about them. Especially if you start engaging somewhere else.
 
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