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White House mistakenly identifies CIA chief in Afghanistan

pbrauer said:
The reason there was a special prosecutor in the Valerie Plame case was that Scooter Libby lied to the FBI. He told them that he learned of her identity from Tim Russert, Russert being a journalist, Libby figured Russert would never testify, but he did.

FITZGERALD: The focus of the interview was what it that he had known about Wilson's wife, Valerie Wilson, what he knew about Ms. Wilson, what he said to people, why he said it, and how he learned it.

And to be frank, Mr. Libby gave the FBI a compelling story.

What he told the FBI is that essentially he was at the end of a long chain of phone calls. He spoke to reporter Tim Russert, and during the conversation Mr. Russert told him that, "Hey, do you know that all the reporters know that Mr. Wilson's wife works at the CIA?"

And he told the FBI that he learned that information as if it were new, and it struck him. So he took this information from Mr. Russert and later on he passed it on to other reporters, including reporter Matthew Cooper of Time magazine, reporter Judith Miller of the New York Times.

Transcript of Special Counsel Fitzgerald's Press Conference
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Scooter Libby paid for his crimes.

Are you giving the Obama team a pass on this just because they work for Obama?
 
Conservative said:
Watch it, J-mac, I have copies of PM's from Gimmesometruth laced with four letter words and name calling due to challenging him/her. He/She doesn't like being challenged.
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Progressives rarely do...Maybe it was because they were bottle fed, maybe because they always had mommy and daddy around to tell them what a special, delicate little flower they are, and maybe it is just because they are self absorbed narcissists. I don't know, nor do I care...I would love to see some of these student centers of the universe in about 15 years, after life has a chance to bat them around some...Then I think their attitude would change slightly.
 
Grim17 said:
If that was true and they knew Plame's status was covert, then they knew something that even Bill Harlow, the CIA public information officer didn't know. Because he was Robert Novak's 3rd source for his story that confirmed Plame's identity. He told Novak she worked at a desk in Langley and had no idea her classification was covert.

Unfortunately, that story of yours is missing what so many stories from back then were... EVIDENCE
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Um, the VP knew she was CIA, the memo Armitage read was secret, there was no reason for Libby, Rove, Armitage and Fleischer to be spreading the fact that she was CIA to multiple reporters within a 2 week period other than as a coordinated program to smear her. The motivation was totally evident......and this is the conclusion Fitzgerald came to, along with any other sentient being.

Oh...and this:

Harlow, the former CIA spokesman, said in an interview yesterday that he testified last year before a grand jury about conversations he had with Novak at least three days before the column was published. He said he warned Novak, in the strongest terms he was permitted to use without revealing classified information, that Wilson’s wife had not authorized the mission and that if he did write about it, her name should not be revealed.
Harlow said that after Novak’s call, he checked Plame’s status and confirmed that she was an undercover operative. He said he called Novak back to repeat that the story Novak had related to him was wrong and that Plame’s name should not be used.

Prosecutor In CIA Leak Case Casting A Wide Net
 
tres borrachos said:
Scooter Libby paid for his crimes.

Are you giving the Obama team a pass on this just because they work for Obama?
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Scooter Libby was never charged with the crime of leaking Valerie Plame's identity, he was convicted of lying and obstruction of justice(a serious crime). He was sentenced to 30 months in prison, but his sentence was commuted by President Bush so he never spent a day behind bars.

I expect President Obama to handle the situation in an appropriate manner whatever that might be.
 
pbrauer said:
Scooter Libby was never charged with the crime of leaking Valerie Plame's identity, he was convicted of lying and obstruction of justice(a serious crime). He was sentenced to 30 months in prison, but his sentence was commuted by President Bush so he never spent a day behind bars.

I expect President Obama to handle the situation in an appropriate manner whatever that might be.
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Correct, he was never charged. He did pay a $250,000 fine and 2-year probation. So yes, he paid for the other crimes.

You don't have an opinion on what Obama should do?
 
tres borrachos said:
Correct, he was never charged. He did pay a $250,000 fine and 2-year probation. So yes, he paid for the other crimes.

You don't have an opinion on what Obama should do?
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Nope, I sure don't, that not my pay grade.
 
pbrauer said:
Scooter Libby was never charged with the crime of leaking Valerie Plame's identity, he was convicted of lying and obstruction of justice(a serious crime). He was sentenced to 30 months in prison, but his sentence was commuted by President Bush so he never spent a day behind bars.

I expect President Obama to handle the situation in an appropriate manner whatever that might be.
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Why would you expect that? Still holding to the dream that Obama was qualified to be President? He remains and will always be a Community Agitator with no leadership skills.

Interesting isn't it that Plame sued Libby and Cheney, lost the case, lost the appeal, and then with a Democrat Congress got nowhere yet she still remains a liberal hero to you and everyone else is guilty in spite of the courts disagreeing
 
tres borrachos said:
Interesting. Does this mean you don't have any opinions anymore on what any politician should or shouldn't do or be doing? Or just "Trust in Obama"?
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I trust Obama to handle the situation as he sees fit. Do you think it was appropriate for President Bush to commute Libby's sentence of a very serious crime of obstruction of justice?
 
pbrauer said:
I trust Obama to handle the situation as he sees fit. Do you think it was appropriate for President Bush to commute Libby's sentence of a very serious crime of obstruction of justice?
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I don't believe anyone who is sentenced by a jury should have sentences commuted, period. But that's a subject for a different thread.

So you trust Obama. That's all you needed to say.
 
pbrauer said:
I trust Obama to handle the situation as he sees fit. Do you think it was appropriate for President Bush to commute Libby's sentence of a very serious crime of obstruction of justice?
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Actually Libby should have received the death penalty which would have been commuted to life in prison for outing a CIA desk jockey. Amazing, how Plame sued and lost yet you still believe what the left tells you. Why is this still an issue today when Bush has been out of office for almost 6 years? Guess when you have such a crappy economy and terrible foreign policy results this is what you have to do, divert.

Aw, yes, the liberal love for incompetence, Trust in Obama
 
Conservative said:
Actually Libby should have received the death penalty which would have been commuted to life in prison for outing a CIA desk jockey. Amazing, how Plame sued and lost yet you still believe what the left tells you. Why is this still an issue today when Bush has been out of office for almost 6 years? Guess when you have such a crappy economy and terrible foreign policy results this is what you have to do, divert.

Aw, yes, the liberal love for incompetence, Trust in Obama
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How incredibly stupid, you celebrate the loss of victims from the intentional actions of the Office of the Vice President Cheney while you seriously believe "liberals love" accidents.

These absolutely sycophant and trollish ideas represent the extreme US right wing.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Um, the VP knew she was CIA, the memo Armitage read was secret, there was no reason for Libby, Rove, Armitage and Fleischer to be spreading the fact that she was CIA to multiple reporters within a 2 week period other than as a coordinated program to smear her. The motivation was totally evident......and this is the conclusion Fitzgerald came to, along with any other sentient being.
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Knowing that someone works for the CIA, doesn't mean that the persons identity is classified. She had been working at a desk job for 5 years ffs.

Maybe your memory is failing you, but the reason her name became part of the conversation in the first place, is because people were wondering how Wilson got the assignment when he doesn't have a security clearance and doesn't work for the CIA.

Oh...and this:

Harlow, the former CIA spokesman, said in an interview yesterday that he testified last year before a grand jury about conversations he had with Novak at least three days before the column was published. He said he warned Novak, in the strongest terms he was permitted to use without revealing classified information, that Wilson’s wife had not authorized the mission and that if he did write about it, her name should not be revealed.
Harlow said that after Novak’s call, he checked Plame’s status and confirmed that she was an undercover operative. He said he called Novak back to repeat that the story Novak had related to him was wrong and that Plame’s name should not be used.
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So?

What you're saying is, that 3 days before Novak published his story, Harlow learned that she had been a covert operative in the past. That was long after she had been mentioned to several different people. Maybe you have the impression that Novak was checking on her status, but that isn't what he was doing. He was trying to confirm whether she was the one responsible for Wilson getting the assignment. That's when Harlow learned about her status.

Understand, he never told Novak her name was classified or legally protected... Here's what Novak said: "He asked me not to use her name, saying she probably never again will be given a foreign assignment but that exposure of her name might cause "difficulties" if she travels abroad. He never suggested to me that Wilson's wife or anybody else would be endangered. If he had, I would not have used her name."

As for Plame suggesting Wilson for the assignment, the Senate Investigation determined that is exactly what she appeared to have done, based on the memo she sent to her boss and several interviews with various people at the CIA.

There is a reason nobody was prosecuted for revealing her name... That's because in order for it to have been a crime, the person who revealed her name had to have known before the fact, that she was designated a covert operative for the agency. To prove that, all Fitz had to do was find one document, one memo, or one email that stated she was a covert operative, or an inquiry from the administration on her status, or locate one person from the agency who had informed someone from administration verbally or by memo of her status... They obviously couldn't find anything that would suggest that her name was revealed knowing that it was classified... Those are the facts.

Nobody revealed her name to "out" her... it was part of the story and if anything, it was done to both embarrass and discredit Wilson and did not endanger anyone PERIOD.
 
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Grim17 said:
Knowing that someone works for the CIA, doesn't mean that the persons identity is classified. She had been working at a desk job for 5 years ffs.

Maybe your memory is failing you, but the reason her name became part of the conversation in the first place, is because people were wondering how Wilson got the assignment when he doesn't have a security clearance and doesn't work for the CIA.



So?

What you're saying is, that 3 days before Novak published his story, Harlow learned that she had been a covert operative in the past. That was long after she had been mentioned to several different people. Maybe you have the impression that Novak was checking on her status, but that isn't what he was doing. He was trying to confirm whether she was the one responsible for Wilson getting the assignment. That's when Harlow learned about her status.

Understand, he never told Novak her name was classified or legally protected... Here's what Novak said: "He asked me not to use her name, saying she probably never again will be given a foreign assignment but that exposure of her name might cause "difficulties" if she travels abroad. He never suggested to me that Wilson's wife or anybody else would be endangered. If he had, I would not have used her name."

As for Plame suggesting Wilson for the assignment, the Senate Investigation determined that is exactly what she appeared to have done, based on the memo she sent to her boss and several interviews with various people at the CIA.

There is a reason nobody was prosecuted for revealing her name... That's because in order for it to have been a crime, the person who revealed her name had to have known before the fact, that she was designated a covert operative for the agency. To prove that, all Fitz had to do was find one document, one memo, or one email that stated she was a covert operative, or an inquiry from the administration on her status, or locate one person from the agency who had informed someone from administration verbally or by memo of her status... They obviously couldn't find anything that would suggest that her name was revealed knowing that it was classified... Those are the facts.

Nobody revealed her name to "out" her... it was part of the story and if anything, it was done to both embarrass and discredit Wilson and did not endanger anyone PERIOD.
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Looks to me like this is exactly why Plame lost her lawsuit against Libby and Cheney and then lost the appeal of that loss. This is nothing more than liberal diversion from the Obama record and the outing of a CIA Station Operations Chief. Amazing isn't it how after all the scandals in this Administration that supporters still believe Obama will do the right thing.
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Grim17 said:
Knowing that someone works for the CIA, doesn't mean that the persons identity is classified. She had been working at a desk job for 5 years ffs.

Maybe your memory is failing you, but the reason her name became part of the conversation in the first place, is because people were wondering how Wilson got the assignment when he doesn't have a security clearance and doesn't work for the CIA.
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Wilson was drawn in because the VP office wanted a recommendation, they went to Plame because she was the go to for nonproliferation. The Office knew she was CIA and covert.

So?

What you're saying is, that 3 days before Novak published his story, Harlow learned that she had been a covert operative in the past. That was long after she had been mentioned to several different people. Maybe you have the impression that Novak was checking on her status, but that isn't what he was doing. He was trying to confirm whether she was the one responsible for Wilson getting the assignment. That's when Harlow learned about her status.
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LOL..."so?"....so your story, your tale was total bs. She was covert AT THE TIME HARLOW CONFIRMED HER STATUS. Is reading that tough?

Understand, he never told Novak her name was classified or legally protected... Here's what Novak said: "He asked me not to use her name, saying she probably never again will be given a foreign assignment but that exposure of her name might cause "difficulties" if she travels abroad. He never suggested to me that Wilson's wife or anybody else would be endangered. If he had, I would not have used her name."
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Novak said LOTS of things, all of it to cover his azz. He was told not use her name because she was covert......and Novak should not have been told about her in the first place, but was by design. He was a willing patsy.

As for Plame suggesting Wilson for the assignment, the Senate Investigation determined that is exactly what she appeared to have done, based on the memo she sent to her boss and several interviews with various people at the CIA.
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Which is what I said above, she was the CIA expert on nonproliferation issues, the VP Office sought her.

There is a reason nobody was prosecuted for revealing her name... That's because in order for it to have been a crime, the person who revealed her name had to have known before the fact, that she was designated a covert operative for the agency.
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Wrong, it is a criminal act to do it intentionally with malice.

To prove that, all Fitz had to do was find one document, one memo, or one email that stated she was a covert operative, or an inquiry from the administration on her status, or locate one person from the agency who had informed someone from administration verbally or by memo of her status... They obviously couldn't find anything that would suggest that her name was revealed knowing that it was classified... Those are the facts.
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Your premise is in error, no foundation. The documents Armitage read were secret, he knew what that means....and his mea culpa was his out.

Nobody revealed her name to "out" her... it was part of the story and if anything, it was done to both embarrass and discredit Wilson and did not endanger anyone PERIOD.
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You just keep revealing how little you know about this, Rove, Libby and Fleischer all told reporters her name in connection to Niger/Wilson, blowing her cover. It was orchestrated by the VP Office, Fitz investigated and recognized it...... and stated such. It is completely revealing to admit that it was done intentionally to harm Wilson.....which is the point. You have already been shown that she was covert....BY YOUR OWN CITATION. The CIA believed it was damaging....enough so as to file a criminal referral to the DOJ.
 
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pbrauer said:
I remember the Bush Administration saying the Iraq war would take maybe 6 weeks and the oil revenues would pay for it.
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I'm still waiting for my Iraq oil card with all that oil we took from them.
 
Ockham said:
I'm still waiting for my Iraq oil card with all that oil we took from them.
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Exactly, isn't that what liberals were saying about our invasion of Iraq, that it was all for oil and to enrich Bush, Cheney, and their "oil buddies?"
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Wilson was drawn in because the VP office wanted a recommendation, they went to Plame because she was the go to for nonproliferation. The Office knew she was CIA and covert.
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She recomended him for the mission.

LOL..."so?"....so your story, your tale was total bs. She was covert AT THE TIME HARLOW CONFIRMED HER STATUS. Is reading that tough?
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I was wrong... Bad recollection on my part.

Novak said LOTS of things, all of it to cover his azz. He was told not use her name because she was covert......and Novak should not have been told about her in the first place, but was by design. He was a willing patsy.
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First, Harlow to my knowledge doesn't disagree with what Novak said...Second, you again make accusations that the facts just don't substanciate.

Which is what I said above, she was the CIA expert on nonproliferation issues, the VP Office sought her.
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Wilson and plame to this day deny that.

Wrong, it is a criminal act to do it intentionally with malice.
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You and other Bush bashers have contended that malice was precisely the motivation behind it, but of course don't have anything to prove it....

Here's what it says:

Whoever, in the course of a pattern of activities intended to identify and expose covert agents and with reason to believe that such activities would impair or impede the foreign intelligence activities of the United States, discloses any information that identifies an individual as a covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such individual and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such individual’s classified intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.​

The first part is a given, and automatic since before the issue ever happened, everyone already knew that when a covert operatives identity is made public through the news media, the CIA can no longer use that operative for foreign missions. Meaning disclosing such a person's identity who is still employed by the agency automatically impedes "the foreign intelligence activities of the United States". So all that Fitz needed in order to prosecute someone for disclosing her name, was to establish that her covert status was known before hand... Which obviously Fitz could find no evidence of, or anything to indicate such.


Your premise is in error, no foundation. The documents Armitage read were secret, he knew what that means....and his mea culpa was his out.
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That's false... The documents he read may have been classified, but that does not mean that the people who are mentioned in them are covert operatives who's identities are classified. As Armitage indicated it's standard operating procedure for the CIA to redact the name of an operative in their reports and memos, or clearly indicate their status if one is named. That wasn't the case in the document that Armitage saw. Her name was used and it was not indicated that her identity was classified.

You just keep revealing how little you know about this, Rove, Libby and Fleischer all told reporters her name in connection to Niger/Wilson, blowing her cover.
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That is correct, but of course it wasn't known at the time that her identity was classified.

It was orchestrated by the VP Office, Fitz investigated and recognized it...... and stated such. It is completely revealing to admit that it was done intentionally to harm Wilson.....which is the point. You have already been shown that she was covert....BY YOUR OWN CITATION. The CIA believed it was damaging....enough so as to file a criminal referral to the DOJ.
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Here's where you lose me... If that were true, then one or more people would have been charged with the crime of disclosing her name, but of course nobody was... That's because Fitz found no indication to suggest that anyone was ever informed or had knowledge of plames covert status prior to disclosing her identity as the person who got Wilson the CIA mission.

This is where the facts contradict your accusations. On the other hand, the facts fit rather nicely with what I said, which was:

Nobody revealed her name to "out" her... it was part of the story and if anything, it was done to both embarrass and discredit Wilson.
 
Please explain how the Plame "scandal" is WORSE than this current SNAFU by Obama? When that lady was outed she was sitting behind a desk in Virginia; while the guy Obama outed was ON THE FRONT LINES in Afghanistan at the time of the outing.

Lucky for Obama the media prays to a gold statue of him, otherwise it would be lights out.
 
Grim17 said:
...[/I]
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1. I've looked this quite a bit and I've never seen any indication they knew of her status. I believe if the knew that, they would not have done what they did.

2. Valerie Plame testified under oath that her boss asked her if Joe Wilson would make the trip and would she email his qualifications. The Right took this as her recommending him ... it wasn't. His trip was almost a year prior to Bush's SOTU address.

3. According to the transcript of Fitzgerald's press conference when Libby was indicted Valerie Plame status was classified.
FITZERALD said:
"Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community.

Valerie Wilson's friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life."
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4. Fitzgerald's role was not necessarily to prosecute anyone, that may have been the result, but it was more investigative. He wasn't looking for the first person to to leak her identity, he was looking for ALL of the people. The fact that Armitage was first was meaningless to him

FITZERALD said:
It was known that a CIA officer's identity was blown, it was known that there was a leak. We needed to figure out how that happened, who did it, why, whether a crime was committed, whether we could prove it, whether we should prove it.

And given that national security was at stake, it was especially important that we find out accurate facts.
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Transcript of Special Counsel Fitzgerald's Press Conference
 
So, lets see. Libs still disseminating false narrative concerning Plame, when according to their standard, Wilson should have been jailed for outing his own wife in Vanity Fair long before this episode.
 
Grim17 said:
She recomended him for the mission.
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Your memory betrays you again:

In March 2007, Plame addressed the question while testifying before the United States House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform: "I did not recommend him. I did not suggest him. There was no nepotism involved. I did not have the authority.... It's been borne out in the testimony during the Libby trial, and I can tell you that it just doesn't square with the facts." She described that in February 2002, while discussing an inquiry from the office of Vice President Cheney about the alleged Iraqi uranium purchases, a colleague who knew of her husband's diplomatic background and previous work with the CIA suggested sending him, and that she agreed to facilitate the discussion between her husband and her superiors despite her own ambivalence about the idea.​

Plame affair - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I was wrong... Bad recollection on my part.
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It is a runing theme with you.
Are you accepting that she was, at the time Novak published, a covert CIA agent?



First, Harlow to my knowledge doesn't disagree with what Novak said.
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About what, specifically?
..Second, you again make accusations that the facts just don't substanciate.
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About what, specifically?



Wilson and plame to this day deny that.
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In his testimony to the grand jury, Libby testified that both he and Vice President Cheney believed that Joseph Wilson was qualified for the mission, though they wondered if he would have been selected had his wife not worked at the CIA.[37][38]

Subsequent press accounts reported that "White House officials wanted to know how much of a role she had in selecting him for the assignment."[39]

In his book, Tenet writes "Mid-level officials in [the CIA’s Counterproliferation Division (CPD)] decided on their own initiative to [ask Joe Wilson to look into the Niger issue because] he'd helped them on a project once before, and he'd be easy to contact because his wife worked in CPD."[40]​

IBID



You and other Bush bashers...
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Um, Bush was out of the loop, the "bash" is all about the VP's Office:

It was established at trial that it was Cheney himself who first told Libby about Plame's identity as a CIA agent, in the course of complaining about criticisms of the administration's run-up to war leveled by her husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson. And, as Fitzgerald notes: "The evidence at trial further established that when the investigation began, Mr. Libby kept the Vice President apprised of his shifting accounts of how he claimed to have learned about Ms. Wilson's CIA employment."

The investigation, Fitzgerald writes, "was necessary to determine whether there was concerted action by any combination of the officials known to have disclosed the information about Ms. Plame to the media as anonymous sources, and also whether any of those who were involved acted at the direction of others. This was particularly important in light of Mr. Libby's statement to the FBI that he may have discussed Ms. Wilson's employment with reporters at the specific direction of the Vice President."​

Dan Froomkin - Fitzgerald Again Points to Cheney - washingtonpost.com


That's false... The documents he read may have been classified,
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Um, the MEMO was stamped SECRET on every page.

Here is the unclassifed, redacted, court released copy:

http://www.nysun.com/pics/31062_1.php

See all of the places it is stamped SECRET.
Maybe Armitage had trouble reading documents, there is a lot of that going around lately too.



That is correct, but of course it wasn't known at the time that her identity was classified.
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FFS, you just got done reading from HARLOW that he confirmed during his conversations with Novak that she was COVERT.

WTF? Are you forgetting what I just corrected you about?



Here's where you lose me... If that were true, then one or more people would have been charged with the crime of disclosing her name, but of course nobody was... That's because Fitz found no indication to suggest that anyone was ever informed or had knowledge of plames covert status prior to disclosing her identity as the person who got Wilson the CIA mission.
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Libby's lies, Fitzgerald wrote, "made impossible an accurate evaluation of the role that Mr. Libby and those with whom he worked played in the disclosure of information regarding Ms. Wilson's CIA employment and about the motivations for their actions."​

Dan Froomkin - Fitzgerald Again Points to Cheney - washingtonpost.com

This is where the facts contradict your accusations. On the other hand, the facts fit rather nicely with what I said, which was:

Nobody revealed her name to "out" her... it was part of the story and if anything, it was done to both embarrass and discredit Wilson.
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I still have no idea how you think revealing that she worked at the CIA would be an "embarrassment" to Wilson, he was proud of her career. To reveal her position was an act of malice, just the acknowledging that it was done to "get Joe Wilson" is a recognizing of the fact. I have no idea why you think your saying what you say is supposed to be an excuse.

Four upper WH employees nearly simultaneously revealing the name of a covert agent to multiple reporters does not happen by accident, especially when you admit it was done intentionally.
 
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