• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Judge throws out Pennsylvania's ban on gay marriage

AGENT J said:
Sure do been here the majority of my life go family spread out though. RL?
Click to expand...
RL = Real Life.

As opposed to "on the internets".


Edit: Although to be fair, the line between the two is blurry these days.
 
Fenton said:
You DO realize that there is no reference to keeping the Church and State seperate in our Constitution, right ?
Click to expand...

You DO realize Jefferson repeatedly clarified it meant to say that right? Kind of like all those priests who love to clarify what leviticus *really* meant to say (except Jefferson actually was there at the Constitution's creation)
 
The Mark said:
RL = Real Life.

As opposed to "on the internets".


Edit: Although to be fair, the line between the two is blurry these days.
Click to expand...

ahhhh gotcha lol
so are you from the east, middle or west then?

and yes i agree the line is blurry these days with social media and even text.
 
chromium said:
You DO realize Jefferson repeatedly clarified it meant to say that right? Kind of like all those priests who love to clarify what leviticus *really* meant to say (except Jefferson actually was there at the Constitution's creation)
Click to expand...


Actually Jefferson penned the Declaration of Independence. If I remember my history correctly he was in Europe, France I think, during the Constitutional Convention.



>>>>
 
AGENT J said:
ahhhh gotcha lol
so are you from the east, middle or west then?

and yes i agree the line is blurry these days with social media and even text.
Click to expand...
I live about 25 mins from Harrisburg, so...central PA?
 
The Mark said:
I live about 25 mins from Harrisburg, so...central PA?
Click to expand...

Nah id call that east still IMO because of its population

Ive been to Harrisburg, Philly of course, wilkes Barre and lewisburgh which is kinda central but ive been there for bucknell university
 
AGENT J said:
Nah id call that east still IMO because of its population

Ive been to Harrisburg, Philly of course, wilkes Barre and lewisburgh which is kinda central but ive been there for bucknell university
Click to expand...
I've often heard my area referred to as central PA...I live ~25 mins west of Harrisburg, though...
 
vesper said:
The Ninth Circus Court's ruling was a very narrow one as it asserted that the voter-approved statewide initiative cannot limit the name "marriage" to heterosexual couples. Rather bazaar as those in support of Prop 8 defined marriage between a man and a woman overwhelmingly in regard to their moral conscience. But it isn't surprising that the Ninth Circus Court would rule in such a way because it is primarily made up of 68% Democrat appointed justices. And it isn't surprising to the rest of us to find in the news today that the overwhelming majority of the recent justices overturning state's bans on same sex marriage are also Democrat appointed justices. Justice my foot. It's an abuse of power.
Majority of judges behind wave of gay marriage rulings were Democrat-appointed | Fox News
Click to expand...

That's not accurate. Federal Judges who have overturned ssm bans have been appointed by every President since Regan, including both Bushes. IN FACT the original judge Vaughn Walker who overturned Prop 8 in Cali was appointed first by Ronald Regan but didn't get confirmed in time before Regan left the White House and he was reappointed by George H.W. Bush in the first year of his term.
 
The Mark said:
I've often heard my area referred to as central PA...I live ~25 mins west of Harrisburg, though...
Click to expand...

Geography is not the strong suit of east coast types. After mentioning I was born in Minnesota, one New Yorker asked me what it was like growing up in the south.
 
vesper said:
The Ninth Circus Court's ruling was a very narrow one as it asserted that the voter-approved statewide initiative cannot limit the name "marriage" to heterosexual couples. Rather bazaar as those in support of Prop 8 defined marriage between a man and a woman overwhelmingly in regard to their moral conscience. But it isn't surprising that the Ninth Circus Court would rule in such a way because it is primarily made up of 68% Democrat appointed justices. And it isn't surprising to the rest of us to find in the news today that the overwhelming majority of the recent justices overturning state's bans on same sex marriage are also Democrat appointed justices. Justice my foot. It's an abuse of power.
Majority of judges behind wave of gay marriage rulings were Democrat-appointed | Fox News
Click to expand...

What percentage in your mind constitutes an "overwhelming majority"? I wanna hear it before I tell you what percentage of these judges are Democrat appointments.
 
The Mark said:
I've often heard my area referred to as central PA...I live ~25 mins west of Harrisburg, though...
Click to expand...

maybe then, but for the stereo type id include Harrisburg in with philly
 
tres borrachos said:
In their minds, that's exactly what they were doing.

The ones in CA who voted for Prop 8 were mostly religious people, based on the exit polls. Apparently it was their religion that caused them to vote as they did. I would need to see some evidence that their votes were based on an intent to ignore individual liberties.
Click to expand...

I would say it was more because of the dirty 'smear and fear' ad campaigns vilifying gay and lesbian people.
 
The Mark said:
I've often heard my area referred to as central PA...I live ~25 mins west of Harrisburg, though...
Click to expand...

Someone once described Pennsylvania to me, like this: You have Philadelphia on one side, Pittsburgh on the other, and West Virginia in the middle. :2razz:
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Someone once described Pennsylvania to me, like this: You have Philadelphia on one side, Pittsburgh on the other, and West Virginia in the middle. :2razz:
Click to expand...

I think "Pennsyltucky" is another common one.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Calling someone a homosexual without knowing anything about their sexuality, and you know nothing about me in that regard, is always done to insult, and is not an acknowledging of anything....since again, you know nothing about me in this regard, nor have I expressed it.

It is just juvenile delinquent, sophomoric attempts to get a rise....and it fails.

Hint: Stop trying to make every argument personal....and just deal with your counter-argument.

Check yourself before you totally wreck yourself.
Click to expand...

I assumed you were gay, and said as much, and you told me that was an insult.

End. Of. Story.
 
The Mark said:
He's against it but not contesting the ruling...trying to have it both ways? Not piss off the pro-SSM types by contesting, but can still say he opposes it to those who are against it?

Then again, I think most people in PA just don't give a damn about stopping it...what's the point? If you're opposed to SSM, you very probably aren't homosexual, so...how does it effect you?

It might just be that I don't know anyone overtly opposed...
Personally, I think most people who dislike the idea of SSM tend to think "meh, it's their business".

If he's trying to appeal to those persons, it might be a good move.



Edit: On another note, I just realized you live in Pittsburgh...shows how observant I am...coincidentally I have a RL friend who lives there.
Click to expand...

I think you can be against something and not contest a ruling. He's a politician, he knows the overturning won't be overturned (did I say that right?), and his personal views are secondary at this point.

I'm not sure it's all about appealing to the voters. I think it's probably a combination of "I don't want to torpedo my political career getting too involved in this hot topic" and "I won't win anyway".
 
tres borrachos said:
I assumed you were gay, and said as much, and you told me that was an insult.

End. Of. Story.
Click to expand...
As I said, calling someone a homosexual without knowing anything about their sexuality, and you know nothing about me in that regard, is always done to insult, and is not an acknowledging of anything....since again, you know nothing about me in this regard, nor have I expressed it in this thread.

It is just juvenile delinquent, sophomoric attempts to get a rise....and it fails.

Hint: Stop trying to make every argument personal....and just deal with your counter-argument.

Check yourself before you totally wreck yourself.
 
tres borrachos said:
If there is some data out there supporting this, I'd love to see it.​
Click to expand...
The tactics used by pro-Prop 8 campaigners were not merely homophobic. They were laser-focused to exploit Californians’ deepest and most irrational fears about gay people, indoctrinating an entire state with cruelly anti-gay propaganda. Early on, Prop 8’s supporters decided to focus their campaign primarily on children, stoking parents’ fears about gay people brainwashing their kids with pro-gay messages or, implicitly, turning their children gay.

video

Another notorious commercial shows an earnest school administrator fretting that a “new health curriculum” that mentions gay marriage will “mess up” children with reference to “gay attraction.”

video

And Prop 8 supporters quickly zeroed in on the terrifying possibility that religious adoption agencies “may be forced to place children in same-sex marriages.”

video

In perhaps the most insulting ad, two gay fathers are quizzed about marriage and reproduction by their daughter; the takeaway, of course, is that this faux-family is twisting the mind and morals of their child with perverse ideas about marriage and love.

video

This message of belittlement cut across pretty much every pro-Prop 8 ad—ads that ran incessantly in the state for months. The campaign’s strategy was to debase gay families as deviant and unhealthy while insinuating that gay people are engaged in a full-scale campaign to convert children to their cause. This strategy worked. And it worked because wealthy donors like Brendan Eich flooded the campaign with the money it needed to run ads like the like the one featuring the Pepperdine professor's grave warning.* Eich wasn’t just a casual opponent of marriage equality. He was a major contributor to the most vitriolic anti-gay campaign in American history, one that set the standard of homophobic propaganda that continues to this day. When we talk about Eich’s anti-gay stance, we aren’t just talking about abstract beliefs. We’re talking about concrete actions that harmed thousands of gay families and informed innumerable gay Americans that they were sinful, corrupted predators.​

Brendan Eich supported Prop 8, which was worse than you remember.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
As I said, calling someone a homosexual without knowing anything about their sexuality, and you know nothing about me in that regard, is always done to insult, and is not an acknowledging of anything....since again, you know nothing about me in this regard, nor have I expressed it in this thread.

It is just juvenile delinquent, sophomoric attempts to get a rise....and it fails.

Hint: Stop trying to make every argument personal....and just deal with your counter-argument.

Check yourself before you totally wreck yourself.
Click to expand...

I assumed you were gay, and you told me that was an insult. End of story.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
The tactics used by pro-Prop 8 campaigners were not merely homophobic. They were laser-focused to exploit Californians’ deepest and most irrational fears about gay people, indoctrinating an entire state with cruelly anti-gay propaganda. Early on, Prop 8’s supporters decided to focus their campaign primarily on children, stoking parents’ fears about gay people brainwashing their kids with pro-gay messages or, implicitly, turning their children gay.

video

Another notorious commercial shows an earnest school administrator fretting that a “new health curriculum” that mentions gay marriage will “mess up” children with reference to “gay attraction.”

video

And Prop 8 supporters quickly zeroed in on the terrifying possibility that religious adoption agencies “may be forced to place children in same-sex marriages.”

video

In perhaps the most insulting ad, two gay fathers are quizzed about marriage and reproduction by their daughter; the takeaway, of course, is that this faux-family is twisting the mind and morals of their child with perverse ideas about marriage and love.

video

This message of belittlement cut across pretty much every pro-Prop 8 ad—ads that ran incessantly in the state for months. The campaign’s strategy was to debase gay families as deviant and unhealthy while insinuating that gay people are engaged in a full-scale campaign to convert children to their cause. This strategy worked. And it worked because wealthy donors like Brendan Eich flooded the campaign with the money it needed to run ads like the like the one featuring the Pepperdine professor's grave warning.* Eich wasn’t just a casual opponent of marriage equality. He was a major contributor to the most vitriolic anti-gay campaign in American history, one that set the standard of homophobic propaganda that continues to this day. When we talk about Eich’s anti-gay stance, we aren’t just talking about abstract beliefs. We’re talking about concrete actions that harmed thousands of gay families and informed innumerable gay Americans that they were sinful, corrupted predators.[/INDENT]

Brendan Eich supported Prop 8, which was worse than you remember.
Click to expand...

A blog isn't data.
 
tres borrachos said:
I assumed you were gay, and you told me that was an insult. End of story.
Click to expand...
No, you tried to use an accusation of homosexuality as a weapon, it isn't the first time, it won't be the last, we have all seen it before. It backfired, you have shown yourself for what you are.

But don't stop, continue....it is all you know.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
No, you tried to use an accusation of homosexuality as a weapon, it isn't the first time, it won't be the last, we have all seen it before. It backfired, you have shown yourself for what you are.

But don't stop, continue....it is all you know.
Click to expand...

I assumed you were gay and said so. You said that was an insult. The posts are right here. Using "we"? Who is "we"? I never had anyone else on this board say being acknowledged as gay is an "insult".

You did.

You think it's an insult to be labeled "gay" and you said so.

No "we" here, son. Own your words and move on.
 
Ceist said:
I would say it was more because of the dirty 'smear and fear' ad campaigns vilifying gay and lesbian people.
Click to expand...
tres borrachos said:
If there is some data out there supporting this, I'd love to see it.
Click to expand...
Gimmesometruth said:
The tactics used by pro-Prop 8 campaigners were not merely homophobic. They were laser-focused to exploit Californians’ deepest and most irrational fears about gay people, indoctrinating an entire state with cruelly anti-gay propaganda. Early on, Prop 8’s supporters decided to focus their campaign primarily on children, stoking parents’ fears about gay people brainwashing their kids with pro-gay messages or, implicitly, turning their children gay.

video

Another notorious commercial shows an earnest school administrator fretting that a “new health curriculum” that mentions gay marriage will “mess up” children with reference to “gay attraction.”

video

And Prop 8 supporters quickly zeroed in on the terrifying possibility that religious adoption agencies “may be forced to place children in same-sex marriages.”

video

In perhaps the most insulting ad, two gay fathers are quizzed about marriage and reproduction by their daughter; the takeaway, of course, is that this faux-family is twisting the mind and morals of their child with perverse ideas about marriage and love.

video

This message of belittlement cut across pretty much every pro-Prop 8 ad—ads that ran incessantly in the state for months. The campaign’s strategy was to debase gay families as deviant and unhealthy while insinuating that gay people are engaged in a full-scale campaign to convert children to their cause. This strategy worked. And it worked because wealthy donors like Brendan Eich flooded the campaign with the money it needed to run ads like the like the one featuring the Pepperdine professor's grave warning.* Eich wasn’t just a casual opponent of marriage equality. He was a major contributor to the most vitriolic anti-gay campaign in American history, one that set the standard of homophobic propaganda that continues to this day. When we talk about Eich’s anti-gay stance, we aren’t just talking about abstract beliefs. We’re talking about concrete actions that harmed thousands of gay families and informed innumerable gay Americans that they were sinful, corrupted predators.[/INDENT]

Brendan Eich supported Prop 8, which was worse than you remember.
Click to expand...

tres borrachos said:
A blog isn't data.
Click to expand...
Videos produced by Prop 8 supporters that ran in CA before the vote showing their homophobic propaganda....is not information (data) that the supporters were using such propaganda to influence the vote?

Are you going to argue that it did not in any sense influence the vote for Prop 8?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Videos produced by Prop 8 supporters that ran in CA before the vote showing their homophobic propaganda....is not information (data) that the supporters were using such propaganda to influence the vote?

Are you going to argue that it did not in any sense influence the vote for Prop 8?
Click to expand...

I'd like to see some data to back up the claim that the people voted because of propoganda and not their own religious views.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom