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Russia and China Move Into Central America

Grant said:
Largely because it lacks perspective and misses the big picture. How much time have you spent exposing China or Russia's 'wrongdoings', or what the Americans, or the people subject to the Communists, were up against?

When it's all one-sided, as is taught in many American schools, you're more likely to have a one-sided opinion, like American supporting "Death Squads". Is that really the America you know and understand, or is it more likely you were taught a bunch of leftist crap during your formative years??
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How many times do I have to tell you that as an American, I'm concerned with American foreign policy, how my money and my representatives conduct business abroad, and how pursuit of "American interests" effects other human lives! Let the Chinese and Russians hold their respective governments accountable for their foreign policy.
 
Montecresto said:
How many times do I have to tell you that as an American, I'm concerned with American foreign policy, how my money and my representatives conduct business abroad, and how pursuit of "American interests" effects other human lives! Let the Chinese and Russians hold their respective governments accountable for their foreign policy.
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Actually, American education left me largely with the opinion that you espouse, and informed my position and voting into my 40's. a little deeper digging and one finds that the US isn't always Reagan's shinning city on a hill, and that often times, in the pursuit of our "interests" abroad have been hugely injurious to other people's and democracies. The "rah rah America, gods gift to earth" crowd has the sophomoric education still entrenched in their heads and hearts.
 
Montecresto said:
Actually, American education left me largely with the opinion that you espouse, and informed my position and voting into my 40's. a little deeper digging and one finds that the US isn't always Reagan's shinning city on a hill, and that often times, in the pursuit of our "interests" abroad have been hugely injurious to other people's and democracies. The "rah rah America, gods gift to earth" crowd has the sophomoric education still entrenched in their heads and hearts.
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Well with America's rapid decline they will no longer be much of a force for anything in the world, good or bad. We'll see how that works out.
 
Montecresto said:
How many times do I have to tell you that as an American, I'm concerned with American foreign policy, how my money and my representatives conduct business abroad, and how pursuit of "American interests" effects other human lives! Let the Chinese and Russians hold their respective governments accountable for their foreign policy.
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You may think you understand America's foreign policy but you certainly don't understand the foreign policy of other countries. Similarly, you have no idea what the Russian, Chinese or other groups elsewhere think. This is clear from your comments, and very common in America today. The Europeans have claimed it has always been this way but I doubt it was ever as bad as it is now..
 
Grant said:
Well with America's rapid decline they will no longer be much of a force for anything in the world, good or bad. We'll see how that works out.
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Having once been the worlds biggest creditor nation, and becoming the worlds largest debtor nation, is decline indeed. Having once had the best education system, that now ranks 10th or 12th, is decline indeed, granting amnesty to people who found their way into our country illegally, is decline to be sure, Obama administration foreign policy in the ME is decline certainly. But there are systemic problems that are driving this, not one party.
 
Grant said:
You may think you understand America's foreign policy but you certainly don't understand the foreign policy of other countries. Similarly, you have no idea what the Russian, Chinese or other groups elsewhere think. This is clear from your comments, and very common in America today. The Europeans have claimed it has always been this way but I doubt it was ever as bad as it is now..
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The foreign policy of other countries is irrelevant. American foreign policy should reflect American values, not foreign values.
 
danarhea said:
The foreign policy of other countries is irrelevant. American foreign policy should reflect American values, not foreign values.
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And which American values are you referring too?

This is really the first time I've heard that the foreign policy of other countries was 'irrelevant", but that seem to be the America we have today.
 
Montecresto said:
Having once been the worlds biggest creditor nation, and becoming the worlds largest debtor nation, is decline indeed. Having once had the best education system, that now ranks 10th or 12th, is decline indeed, granting amnesty to people who found their way into our country illegally, is decline to be sure, Obama administration foreign policy in the ME is decline certainly. But there are systemic problems that are driving this, not one party.
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It is systematic and, for the foreseeable future, irreversible. I notice that many Americans have already just given up on their country and it's a difficult psychological transition for many of them to make, particularly for the older ones who remember the America that was..
 
Grant said:
And which American values are you referring too?

This is really the first time I've heard that the foreign policy of other countries was 'irrelevant", but that seem to be the America we have today.
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Sense I agreed with his comment, I'll answer that one too. In the context of US foreign policy, how we conduct ourselves when engaging other countries, the FP of Russia and China (in this case) is irrelevant. For example, were not going to excuse the US propping up a dictator in Latin America, or supporting militant Islamic groups in the Middle East, just because Russia and China may have done the same, not as bad, or worse. That, would be irrelevant.
 
Montecresto said:
Sense I agreed with his comment, I'll answer that one too. In the context of US foreign policy, how we conduct ourselves when engaging other countries, the FP of Russia and China (in this case) is irrelevant. For example, were not going to excuse the US propping up a dictator in Latin America, or supporting militant Islamic groups in the Middle East, just because Russia and China may have done the same, not as bad, or worse. That, would be irrelevant.
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This is quite a common error from those who don't follow international politics very closely.

Not all dictators are the same. Some are more benevolent than others, some merciless on their people. Every country everywhere eventually has to have a dictator of some sort as an ally, even in the United Nations. For any American to believe they are above this sort of thing, what many call 'Diplomacy' in fact, is what puts Americans in a very difficult, and hypocritical, position.
 
Grant said:
This is quite a common error from those who don't follow international politics very closely.

Not all dictators are the same. Some are more benevolent than others, some merciless on their people. Every country everywhere eventually has to have a dictator of some sort as an ally, even in the United Nations. For any American to believe they are above this sort of thing, what many call 'Diplomacy' in fact, is what puts Americans in a very difficult, and hypocritical, position.
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Oh I see, America only supports the "good" dictators!! Still have time to edit that post?? And again your presumptive arrogance doesn't invite debate. Why don't you try staying away from the personal insults. I think we all follow both domestic and international politics, or else we'd have no interest in places such as this.
 
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Grant said:
This is quite important and yet no one seems to be talking about it. I live mostly in Costa Rica but often visit Nicaragua and what's happening there is huge.



How would George Kennan respond to Nicaragua
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Intriguing.

It's like....a slightly skewed mirror image of American post-war foreign policy. Oooh! A kaleidoscope of paranoia, hypocrisy and equal reaction. Jolly tessellations of karma....
 
Montecresto said:
Oh I see, America only supports the "good" dictators!! Still have time to edit that post?? And again your presumptive arrogance doesn't invite debate. Why don't you try staying away from the personal insults. I think we all follow both domestic and international politics, or else we'd have no interest in places such as this.
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I can never edit my posts sufficiently if you're going to misquote them. Don't translate them to something you want me to say and there might be a possibility for debate.
 
Grant said:
I can never edit my posts sufficiently if you're going to misquote them. Don't translate them to something you want me to say and there might be a possibility for debate.
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Benevolent,

a : marked by or disposed to doing good <a benevolent donor>
b : organized for the purpose of doing good <a benevolent society>
 
danarhea said:
The foreign policy of other countries is irrelevant. American foreign policy should reflect American values, not foreign values.
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Hilarious. If a conservative were to say that the liberal chorus would be screaming American exceptionalism trumps all, right? Other cultures aren't allowed to have values that conflict with ours? Foreign policy is meant to deal with those other cultures that, like it not, exist.
 
j-mac said:
There used to be a time when we were serious about not allowing communism into the western hemisphere. Men gave their lives in that protection. Today we turn our palms skyward, shrug our shoulders, and continue through life with puzzled looks on our faces, muttering "what can we do?" Pathetic.

I am not sure what to order from Rosetta Stone, Russian, or mandarin Chinese? :(
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we once legalized slaves too.

And we drummed up a phony reason to escalate war in Vietnam.

We locked up Japanese Americans.

etc, etc.

Sometimes, America does bad things. I propose we learn from past mistakes and try not to repeat them. Intervention in a sovereign nation's affairs is one of the bad things we need to stop doing.
 
Montecresto said:
Benevolent,

a : marked by or disposed to doing good <a benevolent donor>
b : organized for the purpose of doing good <a benevolent society>
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So, what was your take on Chavez? Bet you argued he was a benevolent dictator. :lamo
 
ARealConservative said:
we once legalized slaves too.

And we drummed up a phony reason to escalate war in Vietnam.

We locked up Japanese Americans.

etc, etc.

Sometimes, America does bad things. I propose we learn from past mistakes and try not to repeat them. Intervention in a sovereign nation's affairs is one of the bad things we need to stop doing.
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As soon as any American wants to legalize slavery, lock up the Japanese or invade Vietnam, you may have a point.
 
Montecresto said:
Benevolent,

a : marked by or disposed to doing good <a benevolent donor>
b : organized for the purpose of doing good <a benevolent society>
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Did I say 'good'? You said good and used it as a direct quote.

This conversation has gone on long enough.
 
clownboy said:
So, what was your take on Chavez? Bet you argued he was a benevolent dictator. :lamo
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Not everybody considers Chavez a dictator. He stepped on Bush's dick, and for that you don't like him.
 
Grant said:
As soon as any American wants to legalize slavery, lock up the Japanese or invade Vietnam, you may have a point.
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how about wanting to wage war with a country in our hemisphere because they made election choices we don't like?
 
danarhea said:
Does that give us the right to also murder people? I don't give a **** about Russia or China. I am an American, and I expect my government to act like an American government, not a Russian or Chinese one.
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We havent acted nothing like Russia or China.
 
apdst said:
We havent acted nothing like Russia or China.
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The point apdst, is that Russia and China aren't the measuring stick for US foreign policy, we profess respect for IL and we have a constitution that when followed, would set us above those countries.
 
Montecresto said:
The point apdst, is that Russia and China aren't the measuring stick for US foreign policy, we profess respect for IL and we have a constitution that when followed, would set us above those countries.
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They were the measuring stick a few posts back. What happened?
 
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