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Russia and China Move Into Central America

Montecresto said:
Wtf is Obama suppose to do about Nicaragua inviting China and Russia to a construction project. And why should he try to do anything?
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I would not expect you to be able to see it. You feel this insufficiency and that is why you so like expletives, I presume.
 
joG said:
I would not expect you to be able to see it. You feel this insufficiency and that is why you so like expletives, I presume.
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Well tell us then, what IS Obama suppose to do about it?
 
Grant said:
Why not do some real research. Do you seriously believe that Cuba and Russia were there to help the Nicaraguan people?? Did you know for example that over 400,000 people fled Nicaragua after the Communist dictatorship took control? Do you have any understanding at all of what the Communists did throughout the world??

That you, as well as many other leftists, actually believe Cold War Wiki link propaganda is a black mark against the US education system and the ignorance of what really happened during that period.

Here's a history lesson. Nicaragua is on page 665. http://www.germanvictims.com/wp-con...munism-jean-louis-margolin-1999-communism.pdf
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And a REAL history lesson for you.

As I stated already, the Monroe Doctrine was not always good for Latin America. While it may have denied European imperialism in the hemisphere, it resulted in a form of US interference that Latin Americans grew to hate. To this day there's strong opposition to US interference there. Many countries were "independent" in name only, but essentially US protectorates.

They (Latin American countries) resented U.S. involvement as YANKEE IMPERIALISM, and animosity against their large neighbor to the North grew dramatically. By the end of the 20th century, the United States would send troops of invasion to Latin America over 35 times, establishing an undisputed sphere of influence throughout the hemisphere.

http://www.ushistory.org/us/44e.asp
 
Grant said:
The Nicaraguan seeds of democracy?? Yes, Reagan deserves credit for this certainly.
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Is this tongue-in-cheek?

I was married to a Nicaraguan during those days, and your apparent grasp of historical events down there is woefully inadequate.
 
Grant said:
How can it be a good point if its false? Do you have any idea at all what the Communists did in Nicaragua? Ever visited there or talked to the people?
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US interference continued with the building of the Panama Canal. Though the US secured (thru treaty) a lease from Columbia on a six mile wide swath of land thru panama, which was under Colombian control, Roosevelt refused to pay Colombians price and (using the big stick) sent gun boats to the shores of Columbia to force the deal, supported the break away of Panama from Columbia and had the canal.

Additionally,

When fear of spreading communism gripped the United States after World War II, it would often intervene in Latin America in favor of conservative dictators. One famous example took place in Guatemala in 1954, when the CIA ousted leftist president Jacobo Arbenz from power for threatening to nationalize some lands held by the United Fruit Company, which was owned by Americans. The CIA would later attempt to assassinate Cuban communist leader Fidel Castro in addition to mounting the infamous Bay of Pigs invasion. There are many more examples, too numerous to list here. CIA involvement in Latin America facilitated the overthrow of many a Latin American democratically elected government in favor of dictatorship. This gave rise to men like Chavez, Correa, Morales and Mujica.


And there are too numerous to mention here examples of US foreign policy and the use of Americas big stick, to enforce the interests of big business, such as the Guatemala/United Fruit example above!!
 
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Gathomas88 said:
They're already waging imperialistic wars of conquest like it's the 19th Century...
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I believe that an informed and effective U.S. foreign policy needs to consider the world as it truly is, not through the biases of idealistic but ungrounded assumptions ranging from messianic views that all peoples crave democracy (the so-called "Islamic State" has again rejected democracy calling it a false "idol") to utopian views that rules, alone, guide the conduct of foreign states (strategic interests and the balance of power drove Russia's decision with respect to Crimea). The notions that geopolitics, Realpolitik, balance of power, etc., are obsolete 19th or 20th century concepts are misplaced. Even as there is a strain of "new era" thinking in some (mainly U.S.) foreign policy circles that such concepts are obsolete, that does not make them so. They have great relevance so long as they are practice and numeorus great powers (Russia and China), along with other states, are practitioners. Hence, the "new era" thinking can only lead to rude surprises when other states behave in fashions that the "new era" thinkers don't expect based on the inherent flaws in their expectations. The world must be analyzed as it is, not how one wishes it to be.
 
Henry David said:
Is this tongue-in-cheek?

I was married to a Nicaraguan during those days, and your apparent grasp of historical events down there is woefully inadequate.
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After multiple attempts of discussing this subject with him, I do believe his denial of the US' own brand of Latin American imperialism is just an attempt to cover the truth of well documented US policy injurious to the inhabitants of Latin America.
 
Henry David said:
Is this tongue-in-cheek?

I was married to a Nicaraguan during those days, and your apparent grasp of historical events down there is woefully inadequate.
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And what did she tell you about the Communists and the Contras who fought for Democracy (and eventually won!).
 
Montecresto said:
US interference continued with the building of the Panama Canal. Though the US secured (thru treaty) a lease from Columbia on a six mile wide swath of land thru panama, which was under Colombian control, Roosevelt refused to pay Colombians price and (using the big stick) sent gun boats to the shores of Columbia to force the deal, supported the break away of Panama from Columbia and had the canal.
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I think you'll find, should you ever visit the area, that the Panamanians were very pleased with the Canal
Additionally, When fear of spreading communism gripped the United States after World War II,
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It didn't just 'grip' the United States. The Communists had already murdered several million people and were on there way to taking over Eastern Europe and almost had Italy and Greece. You seem unfamiliar what went on in Communist countries. It was there that the people were 'gripped with fear' and for good reason.
it would often intervene in Latin America in favor of conservative dictators. One famous example took place in Guatemala in 1954, when the CIA ousted leftist president Jacobo Arbenz from power for threatening to nationalize some lands held by the United Fruit Company, which was owned by Americans.
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Which was a good thing. These 'nationalization programs' only went to finance those in power.
The CIA would later attempt to assassinate Cuban communist leader Fidel Castro in addition to mounting the infamous Bay of Pigs invasion.
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Yes, Kennedy botched the Pay of Pigs and that kept the Castro brothers in power for several more decades while the Cuban people suffered.
There are many more examples, too numerous to list here. CIA involvement in Latin America facilitated the overthrow of many a Latin American democratically elected government in favor of dictatorship. This gave rise to men like Chavez, Correa, Morales and Mujica.
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No, what gave rise to them was the fascination with Communism, where one man could dictate over an entire nation while claiming he was only doing it for justice for the people. And the Left supported these despots, and still do.
And there are too numerous to mention here examples of US foreign policy and the use of Americas big stick, to enforce the interests of big business, such as the Guatemala/United Fruit example above!!
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Yes, yes, just like it was "All About Oil" from the uneducated leftists. Later they figured Latin America was "All About Fruit'.
 
Montecresto said:
After multiple attempts of discussing this subject with him, I do believe his denial of the US' own brand of Latin American imperialism is just an attempt to cover the truth of well documented US policy injurious to the inhabitants of Latin America.
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And American leftists continue to rubbish their own country while deliberately overlooking the character of those dictators who abused the people of Latin America. They did the same while the Communist were murdering millions of people throughout the world. Leftist history speaks for itself.
 
Grant said:
And what did she tell you about the Communists and the Contras who fought for Democracy (and eventually won!).
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Way more than I care to discuss here. :peace
 
Henry David said:
Way more than I care to discuss here. :peace
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Well it obviously wasn't about Nicaragua. I've actually been there several times and have had many Nicaraguan employees. I've checked out the chapter on Nicaragua in the Black Book of Communism and they verify what actually happened there.
 
Grant said:
Well it obviously wasn't about Nicaragua. I've actually been there several times and have had many Nicaraguan employees. I've checked out the chapter on Nicaragua in the Black Book of Communism and they verify what actually happened there.
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Her family was landed gentry, to borrow a term. They lost some, but not all, of the family property when the Sandinistas took over.
 
Henry David said:
Her family was landed gentry, to borrow a term. They lost some, but not all, of the family property when the Sandinistas took over.
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A female employee of mine lost their little farm, chickens and all, and were able to escape to Costa Rica. They had nothing but lost what little they had. When the country became a democracy they were able to go back and with the money they saved were able to buy a small house (Nicaraguan style). What happened in Nicaragua was gut-wrenching and to defend it is to defend the likes of any mass murderer. The Nicaraguans are among the finest people I know.
 
Grant said:
This is quite important and yet no one seems to be talking about it. I live mostly in Costa Rica but often visit Nicaragua and what's happening there is huge.



How would George Kennan respond to Nicaragua
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I havent really seen a substantial post yet as to why you think this is important and huge. You fear it will lead to tyranny? What should anyone do about it?
 
jonny5 said:
I havent really seen a substantial post yet as to why you think this is important and huge. You fear it will lead to tyranny? What should anyone do about it?
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It is huge, though it is doubtful anyone can do much about it now. It would have been wise, perhaps, for America to get involved in the canal across Nicaragua rather than the Chinese and the Russians but perhaps that was just Obama being 'flexible'. You'll see ever increasing anti American propaganda by leftists everywhere. That's always, from a historical perspective, interesting to watch.
 
Grant said:
This is quite important and yet no one seems to be talking about it. I live mostly in Costa Rica but often visit Nicaragua and what's happening there is huge.



How would George Kennan respond to Nicaragua
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This is the Greatest thing possible for Nicaragua.

Just Americans getting butt hurt because they can't be nearly as terroristic or imperalistic as they've been in the past

:lamo
 
Grant said:
It is huge, though it is doubtful anyone can do much about it now. It would have been wise, perhaps, for America to get involved in the canal across Nicaragua rather than the Chinese and the Russians but perhaps that was just Obama being 'flexible'. You'll see ever increasing anti American propaganda by leftists everywhere. That's always, from a historical perspective, interesting to watch.
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**** America in Nicaragua.

America launched an 8 year direct campaign of Terrorism against Nicaragua from 80-88, why in the **** would we want them over the Chinese and Russians?

America already has a military base in Honduras, look how much that's helping them.
 
Grant said:
A female employee of mine lost their little farm, chickens and all, and were able to escape to Costa Rica. They had nothing but lost what little they had. When the country became a democracy they were able to go back and with the money they saved were able to buy a small house (Nicaraguan style). What happened in Nicaragua was gut-wrenching and to defend it is to defend the likes of any mass murderer. The Nicaraguans are among the finest people I know.
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Thank you.

Most of the Land "Grabbing" by the Sandinistas was from former Somoza land holdings and his friends.

When was her land taken?

If it was in 80 or 81, her family was likely in bed with Somoza and deserved to be shot on return.

~82-88 was forced by the exacerbating cost of mounting a counter-terrorist campaign against the US-backed-funded-trained raping native and black contras.
 
joG said:
I would not expect you to be able to see it. You feel this insufficiency and that is why you so like expletives, I presume.
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He's right, you're wrong.

Nicaragua is a Great Soveriegn Nation that has beaten the American virus out of its land three times.

Why would we want to bring it back?

We need a large Russian base, mostly to re-arm our military for a re-occupation of Guanacaste, a guarantee (as Honduras has by the US) against invasion from the Russians, and the construction of a deep-water port on the east coast capable of handling commercial cargo en masse and provide us with the funds to build a non-mud road from the West Coast to the East Coast of our great nation.

We need the Trans-Oceanic Canal for Economic Growth funded by China/HKND. If you can't get that, I suggest trying to yank your head out of your ass.
 
Montecresto said:
And a REAL history lesson for you.

As I stated already, the Monroe Doctrine was not always good for Latin America. While it may have denied European imperialism in the hemisphere, it resulted in a form of US interference that Latin Americans grew to hate. To this day there's strong opposition to US interference there. Many countries were "independent" in name only, but essentially US protectorates.

They (Latin American countries) resented U.S. involvement as YANKEE IMPERIALISM, and animosity against their large neighbor to the North grew dramatically. By the end of the 20th century, the United States would send troops of invasion to Latin America over 35 times, establishing an undisputed sphere of influence throughout the hemisphere.

The Roosevelt Corollary and Latin America [ushistory.org]
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Where's a hug emocon when you need it?
 
Grant said:
And what did she tell you about the Communists and the Contras who fought for Democracy (and eventually won!).
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You have absolutely no ****ing clue what you're talking about.

You know you're making yourself look Stupid, right?
 
Grant said:
Why not do some real research. Do you seriously believe that Cuba and Russia were there to help the Nicaraguan people?? Did you know for example that over 400,000 people fled Nicaragua after the Communist dictatorship took control? Do you have any understanding at all of what the Communists did throughout the world??

That you, as well as many other leftists, actually believe Cold War Wiki link propaganda is a black mark against the US education system and the ignorance of what really happened during that period.

Here's a history lesson. Nicaragua is on page 665. http://www.germanvictims.com/wp-con...munism-jean-louis-margolin-1999-communism.pdf
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Dumb.

They left because the American-funded Contra was raping and pillaging less than a year since the Sandinista junta took power.
 
Buddha C said:
Dumb.

They left because the American-funded Contra was raping and pillaging less than a year since the Sandinista junta took power.
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Claiming you're part of a movement which killed over 100 million people sounds unlikely, but supporting the murder of a Nicaraguan woman who works for me suggests you really are a committed leftist. I doubt that you've ever actually been out of Jersey though.
 
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