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Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment

ObamacareFail said:
He can change his name...he cannot change his gender. It's nothing more the cosmetic surgery with hormone treatment added.
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Well I don't want debate gender because it's very complicated. What I will say is that gender is a mental construct, and as that is the case, it's feasible that some sort of psychological adjustments would be appropriate for someone experiencing such dysphoria. And as it's humane to see to the psychological well being of prisoners, this person needs to have her psychological needs taken care of. Now exactly how to go about doing that, I really don't know.
 
ObamacareFail said:
There is no such thing as sexual re-assignment surgery....its nothing but cosmetic surgery and hormone treatments.
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OK, I'm not going to try to prove that false. But what I will say is that gender is a mental construct. That is certain.
 
Man oh man oh man. Reading some of the comments in this thread feels like stepping into a time machine, going back to the "good old days" where gays were freaks, blacks weren't really people, and women needed to be disciplined like children. Mark my words, if you people spew this **** in the year 2050, you are going to look as civilized as the Westboro Baptist Church does now.

Whether Chelsea Manning is a traitor is an issue that I will let lie for the time being.
 
Phys251 said:
Man oh man oh man. Reading some of the comments in this thread feels like stepping into a time machine, going back to the "good old days" where gays were freaks, blacks weren't really people, and women needed to be disciplined like children. Mark my words, if you people spew this **** in the year 2050, you are going to look as civilized as the Westboro Baptist Church does now.

Whether Chelsea Manning is a traitor is an issue that I will let lie for the time being.
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I know what you mean. People say we are going forward, but sometimes, I don't know.
 
MildSteel said:
I know what you mean. People say we are going forward, but sometimes, I don't know.
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We're doing pretty well on the LGB in LGBT rights. The "T" has a lot of work left to be done.
 
Phys251 said:
Man oh man oh man. Reading some of the comments in this thread feels like stepping into a time machine, going back to the "good old days" where gays were freaks, blacks weren't really people, and women needed to be disciplined like children. Mark my words, if you people spew this **** in the year 2050, you are going to look as civilized as the Westboro Baptist Church does now.

Whether Chelsea Manning is a traitor is an issue that I will let lie for the time being.
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IIRC nobody knew about his transgender issues until he was on trial. He wasn't exactly popular before hand either.
 
US Conservative said:
IIRC nobody knew about his
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Stopped reading right there. Why should you expect me to listen to what you say when you won't even accept who Manning is?
 
US Conservative said:
Spare me the drama. Hes a male anatomically and genetically. Im not going to do your liberal PC dance.
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Then we are at an impasse. You've chosen not to listen to me, and I've chosen not to listen to you.
 
shrubnose said:
Defense officials say the Pentagon is trying to transfer convicted national security leaker Pvt. Chelsea Manning to a civilian prison so that she can get treatment for her gender disorder.

Read more here: Pentagon pushes Manning transfer for gender treatment




Eventually this person will be freed from prison and will have to be re-integrated into society.

My question is: how much (If anything.) do the rest of us owe this person? The treatment that this person will require will be pretty expensive, I'm sure.

Who is going to pay those bills? Who should pay those bills?

Any ideas?
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If Manning wants to be a female so badly then he can hang himself in his cell, crossing his fingers, hoping he is a female in the next life. The idea of tax money going towards any sort of treatment just to try and please someone who can't accept their gender is unbelievably asinine.
 
US Conservative said:
IIRC nobody knew about his transgender issues until he was on trial. He wasn't exactly popular before hand either.
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and wrong once again. but it's not like some folks need facts to form an opinion
In November 2009 Manning wrote to a gender counselor in the United States, said she felt female, and discussed having sex reassignment surgery. The counselor told Steve Fishman of New York Magazine in 2011 that it was clear Manning was in crisis, partly because of her gender concerns, but also because she was opposed to the kind of war in which she found herself involved.
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[emphasis added by bubba to establish the timeline prior to the trial]
How Bradley Manning Became One of the Most Unusual Revolutionaries in American History -- New York Magazine
Chelsea Manning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Manning was arrested on May 27, 2010 ...
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per wiki [bubba's emphasis to show the date of chelsea manning's arrest - which preceded the trial and followed contact with the gender counselor]
proving that somebody knew about her transgender issues prior to her trial
and thus proving your statement to be wrong
 
justabubba said:
and wrong once again. but it's not like some folks need facts to form an opinion
[emphasis added by bubba to establish the timeline prior to the trial]
How Bradley Manning Became One of the Most Unusual Revolutionaries in American History -- New York Magazine
Chelsea Manning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

per wiki [bubba's emphasis to show the date of chelsea manning's arrest - which preceded the trial and followed contact with the gender counselor]
proving that somebody knew about her transgender issues prior to her trial
and thus proving your statement to be wrong
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I meant in the public, detective columbo.
 
Mathematician said:
If Manning wants to be a female so badly then he can hang himself in his cell, crossing his fingers, hoping he is a female in the next life.
The idea of tax money going towards any sort of treatment just to try and please someone who can't accept their gender is unbelievably asinine.
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Maybe to you, but other people support it and whether you like it or not, it's happening.

Deal with it.
 
ObamacareFail said:
None of which will make "he" a "she".
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Meh, well, so, it's her life, she's gotta do the time first.

Like the saying goes, don't do the crime if you can't do the time. She'll be a little more than a middle aged when she gets out, and I've seen some TGs that looked lovely at Club ICON performing standup gigs, not too bad. Maybe nothing posh like Vegas but not too bad.

Club ICON
 
MildSteel said:
OK, I'm not going to try to prove that false. But what I will say is that gender is a mental construct. That is certain.
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Baloney. It is physical and mental. The physical part involves gender specific functional equipment that no surgeon can make synthetically or surgically.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Baloney. It is physical and mental. The physical part involves gender specific functional equipment that no surgeon can make synthetically or surgically.
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Salami. It's a mental construct, the surgery merely attempts to construct a body that is consistent with the mental state. And your notion can be proven false by noting that people who indeed have physical male parts report the experience of feeling as if they have female parts, or phantom sex organs. And if you want to say that is nonsense, it should be noted that people who have had limbs amputated have reported feeling as if the parts are there.
 
ObamacareFail said:
Does not matter. The fact is that it is treason.
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was that also true of the release of the pentagon papers?

at the time, many on the right said 'yes'
 
MildSteel said:
Salami. It's a mental construct, the surgery merely attempts to construct a body that is consistent with the mental state. And your notion can be proven false by noting that people who indeed have physical male parts report the experience of feeling as if they have female parts, or phantom sex organs. And if you want to say that is nonsense, it should be noted that people who have had limbs amputated have reported feeling as if the parts are there.
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Pastrami. You really must take a sex education course again. If born as a boy.....you are... a boy...if born as a girl...you are a girl.......straight, gay, bisexual...it does not matter. You cannot change your gender with surgery.
 
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