• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Arkansas judge strikes down gay marriage ban


Let us know when any of these cases go to american court and they win
also let us know when this has anythign to do with being gay since MILLIONS of straight couples have also tried this for being discriminated against for various reasons :lamo
THis fear tactic is a complete fail.

also let it be known, they day this fantasy lie and strawman has any real traction is the day you find me supporting the churches rights 110%, why? because i already do but i have zero fear about this failed strawman.
 
Gay's are married every day in Churches, Synagogues, and Temples. You don't feel that infringes on their rights when those religious ceremonies aren't recognized equally?


>>>>

No, I just don't a **** that it does. It's a conflict between the "rights" of the two groups. Since millions have been killed and have fought to support freedom of religion and not for homosexual "rights", I side with the side that has earned it through blood and toil.
 
Let us know when any of these cases go to american court and they win
also let us know when this has anythign to do with being gay since MILLIONS of straight couples have also tried this for being discriminated against for various reasons :lamo
THis fear tactic is a complete fail.

also let it be known, they day this fantasy lie and strawman has any real traction is the day you find me supporting the churches rights 110%, why? because i already do but i have zero fear about this failed strawman.

Why should I? Will you actually read something then?
 
No, I just don't a **** that it does. It's a conflict between the "rights" of the two groups. Since millions have been killed and have fought to support freedom of religion and not for homosexual "rights", I side with the side that has earned it through blood and toil.

good thing freedom of religion isnt in danger by gays LMAO
 
No, I just don't a **** that it does. It's a conflict between the "rights" of the two groups. Since millions have been killed and have fought to support freedom of religion and not for homosexual "rights", I side with the side that has earned it through blood and toil.

There is no real conflict in rights between groups when it comes to same sex marriage because no church in the US is being forced to perform weddings/marriage ceremonies for same sex couples, nor are they any more likely to be forced to perform weddings/marriage ceremonies for same sex couples than they would be to perform them for opposite sex couples that they don't agree with.
 
Why should I? Will you actually read something then?

ill read what ever you post and it will continue to fail because he fact is your flailed strawman doesnt fool anybody. Nobody honest educated and objective will ever fall for a strawman so mentally retarded and illogical.
Your unsupportable an illogical OPINIONS are meaningless to facts, rights and equality.

I repeat:
1.) Let us know when any of these cases go to american court and they win (churches forced to marry a gay couple)
2.) also let us know when this has anything to do with being gay since MILLIONS of straight couples have also tried this for being discriminated against for various reasons

and again let it be known, they day this fantasy lie and strawman has any real traction is the day you find me supporting the churches rights 110%, why? because i already do!
but facts logic and honesty dont allow me to have any fantasy fear about this failed strawman.
 
There is no real conflict in rights between groups when it comes to same sex marriage because no church in the US is being forced to perform weddings/marriage ceremonies for same sex couples, nor are they any more likely to be forced to perform weddings/marriage ceremonies for same sex couples than they would be to perform them for opposite sex couples that they don't agree with.


can a ordained minster be forced to perform a ceremony, one who has received his certificate online?.....even though that person has ever entered a church?
 
IM against straight marriage because "they" are using it to force churches to marry them LMAO
 
Why should I? Will you actually read something then?

Obviously he and we did, otherwise we wouldnt know it's a useless support for your argument.
 
There is no real conflict in rights between groups when it comes to same sex marriage because no church in the US is being forced to perform weddings/marriage ceremonies for same sex couples, nor are they any more likely to be forced to perform weddings/marriage ceremonies for same sex couples than they would be to perform them for opposite sex couples that they don't agree with.

WorldWatcher in the post that that was in response to clearly indicated that there was, in his opinion. My response was in relation to that post.
 
Unless you have read all the exchanges between us, in all threads, you probably wouldn't understand the reference.

no they get it just fine
theres nothign you have posted or can post that supports your failed strawman and claim. Nice try though lol
If you disagree simply prove this fact wrong.
 
Obviously he and we did, otherwise we wouldnt know it's a useless support for your argument.

Also, reread the arguments. That was a post to the challenge from rogue nuke to "Prove that any same sex couple has ever tried to force a church or clergy member to perform a wedding/marriage ceremony for them against church doctrine in the US. I dare you." It was not presented as a argument but a response.
 
can a ordained minster be forced to perform a ceremony, one who has received his certificate online?.....even though that person has ever entered a church?

I don't know, can they?

As far as I've found, they can't be. I used an ordained online minister for my wedding. She was a Navy wife who used her "clergy" status to earn extra money for her and her husband (a position that I completely understood, having been a sailor myself at the time). Pretty sure she could have turned me down for whatever reason she wanted to.

Is there any proof/evidence that any of these types of ministers have been successfully sued for turning down a person in performing their wedding ceremony?
 
Also, reread the arguments. That was a post to the challenge from rogue nuke to "Prove that any same sex couple has ever tried to force a church or clergy member to perform a wedding/marriage ceremony for them against church doctrine in the US. I dare you." It was not presented as a argument but a response.

And the response failed since I clearly requested evidence that it was happening in the US.
 
No, I just don't a **** that it does. It's a conflict between the "rights" of the two groups. Since millions have been killed and have fought to support freedom of religion and not for homosexual "rights", I side with the side that has earned it through blood and toil.


So you don't really support "religious freedom", it's more like "I support freedom for the religion I agree with".


Maybe it's not such a good thing to try to hide behind "religious freedom" when you don't really support it.



>>>>
 
I don't know, can they?

As far as I've found, they can't be. I used an ordained online minister for my wedding. She was a Navy wife who used her "clergy" status to earn extra money for her and her husband (a position that I completely understood, having been a sailor myself at the time). Pretty sure she could have turned me down for whatever reason she wanted to.

Is there any proof/evidence that any of these types of ministers have been successfully sued for turning down a person in performing their wedding ceremony?

yes, i can be a minster from online...never entering a church, and have power to marry people...under the law i stated....as an individual i can be forced to perform a ceremony [a service]......as far as being forced...[it will come to pass]
 
yes, i can be a minster from online...never entering a church, and have power to marry people...under the law i stated....as an individual i can be forced to perform a ceremony [a service]......as far as being forced...[it will come to pass]

Prove that you can be forced to perform a ceremony. Show me a case in the US where such a minister was forced to perform a ceremony against their beliefs/desires/will.
 
WorldWatcher in the post that that was in response to clearly indicated that there was, in his opinion. My response was in relation to that post.


Worldwatcher did no such thing.


There is no "conflict of rights by government recognition of Same-sex Civil Marriage". The problem isn't government recognition of SSCM, it's with Public Accommodation laws.

You realize that all the last major cases that concern Same-sex Marriage (Not SSCM) were in States that didn't have Same-sex Civil Marriage. Sweetcakes by Melissa (Oregon), Elane Photogrpahy (New Mexico) and Masterpiece Cakes (Colorado) were all in States without SSCM. The problem is Public Accommodation laws that usurp the right of property and freedom of association for private businesses.

Unlike you that only supports Freedom of Religion for the religion you agree with, I support it for all. I also support the repeal of Public Accommodation laws as they apply to private businesses. PA laws should only apply to government entities as to the goods and services they provide and limit them from purchasing goods and services or contracting with businesses that operate under a discriminatory business model.


>>>>
 
Also, reread the arguments. That was a post to the challenge from rogue nuke to "Prove that any same sex couple has ever tried to force a church or clergy member to perform a wedding/marriage ceremony for them against church doctrine in the US. I dare you." It was not presented as a argument but a response.

Er, did you read what you wrote?
 
So you don't really support "religious freedom", it's more like "I support freedom for the religion I agree with".


Maybe it's not such a good thing to try to hide behind "religious freedom" when you don't really support it.



>>>>

In correct. I don't give a **** about homosexual "rights" when they conflict with other's rights.
 
Also, reread the arguments. That was a post to the challenge from rogue nuke to "Prove that any same sex couple has ever tried to force a church or clergy member to perform a wedding/marriage ceremony for them against church doctrine in the US. I dare you." It was not presented as a argument but a response.


And by posting about a challenge in England where the Church of England was sponsored and established by the government was a classic fail. The request, as you quote above was for US Churches being forced to perform a religious ceremony.



>>>>
 
In correct. I don't give a **** about homosexual "rights" when they conflict with other's rights.


Which is what I said, you try to hide behind "freedom" but you don't really support "freedom". You support only those things you agree with.


>>>>
 

That is first of all nothing but fearmongering speculation, not an actual challenge to any law. Second, that blogger apparently has no clue about the laws. If a church is opening up their spaces/properties to the public for lease/rental, then that means they must abide by anti-discrimination/public accommodation laws, even if that violates the beliefs espoused by the church because they are choosing to open up their spaces/property as a business, to make money for the church. This applies to more than just same sex couples, and exists without same sex marriage being legal.

This is absolutely not a clergyman/minister being forced to perform a wedding ceremony against their beliefs. That is the contention being made, question being asked. And you still have not shown any proof/evidence that any minister/religious leader will be forced to perform a wedding or be sued/lose a lawsuit for refusing to perform a same sex wedding.

In fact, the Washington law that legalized same sex marriage included a specific protection for religious organizations and clergy to refuse to perform, recognize, or accommodate same sex weddings.
 
Back
Top Bottom