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FBI investigating Bundy supporters in BLM dispute[W:338]

Cliven owes more than $1 million in fines for using federal land. But apparently that makes him a martyr while the welfare recipient is just a lowly leech.

So what exactly is the dollar amount used to define "leech"?
 
So what exactly is the dollar amount used to define "leech"?

There is no dollar amount. Just pointing out the absurdity of defending a man who has received far more privileges at the expense of the taxpayers than the average welfare recipient.

Btw, I believe we need to replace welfare with Thomas Paine's citizen dividend.
 
There is no dollar amount. Just pointing out the absurdity of defending a man who has received far more privileges at the expense of the taxpayers than the average welfare recipient.

Btw, I believe we need to replace welfare with Thomas Paine's citizen dividend.

It didn't cost me any money for Bundy to graze his cattle. If he paid the fees, how much would our taxes have been reduced by?

ETA I'm not familiar with Citizen Dividend
 
One man. Of course, there are dozens more pictures of other men pointing guns, yes? Nobody's gotten around to posting them yet.

Where is the federal agent on the other side of the barrier in that first picture? Suspended in air, or just really really really tall?
2014-04-12T222034Z_01_LOA111_RTRIDSP_3_USA-RANCHERS-NEVADA.jpg
 
It didn't cost me any money for Bundy to graze his cattle. If he paid the fees, how much would our taxes have been reduced by?

Your money goes to the maintenance and upkeep of federal lands just as it goes towards welfare checks. It is also unfair for other ranchers who pay their fees while Bundy pays nothing.

ETA I'm not familiar with Citizen Dividend

Every citizen would receive a payment (monthly or annually) for the revenue the government receives from leasing land/resources.
It would dramatically cut bureaucracy and expenses.
Citizen's dividend - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Alaska currently does this with its revenue for land it leases to oil companies. Each citizen (even the children) receives about $800 a year.
Can a Citizens Dividend Replace Welfare
 
If you are saying that you are not "the militia" under the broad interpretation that allows all people to own and bear arms ... then turn in your weapons. You have no 2nd amendment rights under the constitution.

I hold rank in our military, so no need to turn in anything.

The Supreme court has already ruled that it applies to individuals as well as militias. That was interesting point though. :(

District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
It didn't cost me any money for Bundy to graze his cattle. If he paid the fees, how much would our taxes have been reduced by?

ETA I'm not familiar with Citizen Dividend

Please consider the following "logic":

-The career welfare fraudster does not cost me any money personally.
- Had she been kicked off of welfare, would my taxes have been reduced a great deal?

- Ergo, society should tolerate her theft of public recesources- right?

The only difference between Bundy and the welfare fraudsters is that Bundy is right wing (most welfare fraudsters drift left) and that Budy has managed to summon some armed, but blind ideaological followers. The welfare fraudsters have not been able to do that since the Black Panthers collapsed.

Please.... dont become one of Bundy's blind followers:

Dear Bundy Followers,

I choose to use public recesources by taking out some student loans. Now, I am butt hurt by the fact that I must pay for those recesources. In fact, I have some kind of ancestoral right to a tax payer funded education. I have exempted myelf from those unfair loans. Who wants to protect me from the uhmmm..... "government oppressors" who want to "steal" my property... .
 
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Please consider the following "logic":

-The career welfare fraudster does not cost me any money personally.
- Had she been kicked off of welfare, would my taxes have been reduced a great deal?

- Ergo, society should tolerate her theft of public recesources- right?

The only difference between Bundy and the welfare fraudsters is that Bundy is right wing (most welfare fraudsters drift left) and that Budy has managed to summon some armed, but blind ideaological followers. The welfare fraudsters ahve not been able to do that since the Black Panthers collapsed.

Please.... dont become one of Bundy's blind followers.

Huh? Who is following Bundy?

I understand your "welfare fraudster" point, but I'm going to guess there are many more welfare recipients in this country than people who don't pay a fee to graze their cattle.
 
Huh? Who is following Bundy?

I understand your "welfare fraudster" point, but I'm going to guess there are many more welfare recipients in this country than people who don't pay a fee to graze their cattle.

there's like 1 cattle rancher that is "costing" taxpayers 1 million bucks( him not paying doesn't exactly mean it's costing us anything, but that's for another story) .. .and all of a sudden lefties are all about decrying " leeching" off of taxpayers....something they generally champion.
it's all so very odd.
 
Huh? Who is following Bundy?

I understand your "welfare fraudster" point, but I'm going to guess there are many more welfare recipients in this country than people who don't pay a fee to graze their cattle.

I didn't explore 60 pages to see, but do you know if this thread addressed how it came to be that lands that family's like Bundy's grazed their animals on historically came into the possession of the Federal government to begin with?
 
I didn't explore 60 pages to see, but do you know if this thread addressed how it came to be that lands that family's like Bundy's grazed their animals on historically came into the possession of the Federal government to begin with?

No clue. I was surprised to see my post quoted this morning as I made that post a while ago. Haven't had any interest in the Bundy story lately.
 
Huh? Who is following Bundy?

I understand your "welfare fraudster" point, but I'm going to guess there are many more welfare recipients in this country than people who don't pay a fee to graze their cattle.

Ok, I proably should have used the words "support" instead of "follow" - follow just had a bigger impact.

Bundy is also a welfare fraudster- he just hides behind a certain amount of respectibility as a rancher.

The core concept is that if one chooses to use public recesources, then one must pay the tax payers (the owners) for them. It does not matter whether one is a leftist "occupier" with student loans, or a right wing rancher with grazing fees.
 
Ok, I proably should have used the words "support" instead of "follow" - follow just had a bigger impact.

Bundy is also a welfare fraudster- he just hides behind a certain amount of respectibility as a rancher.

The core concept is that if one chooses to use public recesources, then one must pay the tax payers (the owners) for them. It does not matter whether one is a leftist "occupier" with student loans, or a right wing rancher with grazing fees.

I'm not a Bundy supporter either. I have no opinion one way or another on the grazing issue because I don't really care if he pays his fees or not.
 
I didn't explore 60 pages to see, but do you know if this thread addressed how it came to be that lands that family's like Bundy's grazed their animals on historically came into the possession of the Federal government to begin with?

Yes, and it turns out that the land has always been the property of the federal govt which bought it from Mexico.
 
I'm not a Bundy supporter either. I have no opinion one way or another on the grazing issue because I don't really care if he pays his fees or not.

Do you care if the "Occupiers" re-pay their student loans?
 
Yes, and it turns out that the land has always been the property of the federal govt which bought it from Mexico.

Do you have a link to that. I thought the US annexed AZ, CA, NM, etc. after trumped up charges by president Polk that led to the Mexican American war??
 
Do you have a link to that. I thought the US annexed AZ, CA, NM, etc. after trumped up charges by president Polk that led to the Mexican American war??

You say toe-mah-toe and I say toe-may-toe

Mexican Cession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, Bundy's family didn't arrive in the area until after the Mexican Cession so his claim that his family's presence there preceded US ownership of the land is nothing but a lie.
 
Absolutely, but what does that have to do with Bundy?

Because both are cut from the exact same mold. They only have a difference in political flavor. Please, look at the core issues:

-Both have chosen to use public recesources (tuition and pasturage)
-Both have attempted to self exempt themselves from paying for those recesources
-Both claim to have some kind of mystical "right" to receive things for free

Once again, the only difference is that Bundy is right wing and uses right wing ideaology to justify his theft. Thus, he is "sexy" to some people on account of that.
No doubt, other people find the leftist Occupiers "sexy" because they use leftist talking points.

As for me, I dont have patience for either Bundy or the Occupiers.
 
You say toe-mah-toe and I say toe-may-toe

Mexican Cession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, Bundy's family didn't arrive in the area until after the Mexican Cession so his claim that his family's presence there preceded US ownership of the land is nothing but a lie.

I see, a forced surrender of the lands, having defeated them militarily with the US assuming 15 million worth of mexican debt to the citizens. A "technical" purchase! There was quite a few politicians at the time that wanted to see the US grab all the way to Mexico City!!
 
Because both are cut from the exact same mold. They only have a difference in political flavor. Please, look at the core issues:

-Both have chosen to use public recesources (tuition and pasturage)
-Both have attempted to self exempt themselves from paying for those recesources
-Both claim to have some kind of mystical "right" to receive things for free

Once again, the only difference is that Bundy is right wing and uses right wing ideaology to justify his theft. Thus, he is "sexy" to some people on account of that.
No doubt, other people find the leftist Occupiers "sexy" because they use leftist talking points.

As for me, I dont have patience for either Bundy or the Occupiers.

People are contractually obligated to pay back their student loans. They signed the promissory note. Not the same situation as Bundy; in fact, it's not even in the same ballpark.
 
I see, a forced surrender of the lands, having defeated them militarily with the US assuming 15 million worth of mexican debt to the citizens. A "technical" purchase! There was quite a few politicians at the time that wanted to see the US grab all the way to Mexico City!!

All of that is true, but irrelevant to whether Bundy should pay grazing fees.
 
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