• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93:217]

Renae

Renae

Banned
Suspended
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
50,241
Reaction score
19,243
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court said Monday that prayers that open town council meetings do not violate the Constitution even if they routinely stress Christianity.The court said in 5-4 decision that the content of the prayers is not significant as long as officials make a good-faith effort at inclusion.
Click to expand...
Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting - Washington Times


Too bad they forgot about high school football game prayers. ... /smh
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Good faith. The legal phrase for bare minimum required. And while I agree with the Court's ruling in terms of scope that the prayer is a small part of what is a larger civic meeting, the idea that it should be allowed because of tradition is crap. Tradition can still violate the First Amendment. I also wish the article went into more detail on Kagan's point of citizen participation because that is a potential game changer as well.
 
Last edited:
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

I thought they ruled on this years ago - what am I thinking of instead?

Tempting to research, but I already have other research to research. LOL
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

rocket88 said:
It'll be interesting to see the actual language. What, for instance, constitutes a "good-faith effort at inclusion?"
Click to expand...

Its a stupid ruling that runs counter to a previously made ruling (football game prayers, which I support) and merely muddles things. Stop futzing around SC just declare the 1st amendment unconstitutional and move on.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Interesting ruling. By that definition it seems a Hindu person can ask for ganash to be included and they would either have to get unspecific enough that the prayer has no meaning or they have to include ganash.
Seems to coincide with the baphomet thing happening over in Oklahoma.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

MrVicchio said:
Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting - Washington Times


Too bad they forgot about high school football game prayers. ... /smh
Click to expand...

Kennedy himself was the author an opinion in 1992 that held that a Christian prayer delivered at a high school graduation did violate the Constitution. The justice said Monday there are differences between the two situations, including the age of the audience and the fact that attendees at the council meeting may step out of the room if they do not like the prayer.
Click to expand...

U.S. Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting | The News-Messenger | thenews-messenger.com




On praying before games
Justice John Paul Stevens delivered the opinion of the Supreme Court, upholding the decision of the Court of Appeals, saying "the simple enactment of this policy, with the purpose and perception of school endorsement of student prayer, was a constitutional violation." He continues, " such a system encourages divisiveness along religious lines and threatens the imposition of coercion upon those students not desiring to participate in a religious exercise. Simply by establishing this school-related procedure, which entrusts the inherently nongovernmental subject of religion to a majoritarian vote, a constitutional violation has occurred."

Joining Justice Stevens in his opinion were Justices Sandra Day O'Connor, Anthony M. Kennedy, David H. Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer.
Click to expand...
Supreme Court Rules School Sponsored Prayer Unconstitutional
 
Last edited:
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

calamity said:
How embarrassing, adults who are supposed to be in charge bowing their heads to talk to the invisible man. :(
Click to expand...
Freedom is terrible thing for you isnt it?
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

MrVicchio said:
Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting - Washington Times


Too bad they forgot about high school football game prayers. ... /smh
Click to expand...

this pretty much says what people have been saying all along. you have freedom of religion not freedom from religion.
if you know that they say a prayer at the begining of the meeting and you don't want to hear it wait till they are done.

football game prayers depending are still legal.
just like a judge ruled in favor of a cheerleader group could put bible verses on their banners at a football game.

these athiest activist need to go back and read the constitution again. this just killed their argument. their attempt to squash any religious talk in a public forum has for at least now failed.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/12-696_4f57.pdf

here is the opinion. it is limited though it only applies to this one city although that may expand depending.
 
Last edited:
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

MrVicchio said:
Saving the kids from ebil religion, im aware if that asinine ruling.
Click to expand...


Saving kids from evil is not in any of the decisions...the point was that the ruling you that you beleive was correct was authored by the justice that ruled against prayer before sports and commencement.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

I would prefer that if these prayers had to happen, that they could happen at the end, so that those who doesn't want to participate can exit and not miss any of the business of the meeting.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

AliHajiSheik said:
I would prefer that if these prayers had to happen, that they could happen at the end, so that those who doesn't want to participate can exit and not miss any of the business of the meeting.
Click to expand...

Who has to participate? If you don't want to pray then just be respectful of those who do.

What the hell is wrong with people? Are they scared that the prayers of someone next to them are going to rub off? Are they so faithless in their atheism that they believe they'll be converted just because of association?
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Lutherf said:
Are they so faithless in their atheism that they believe they'll be converted just because of association?
Click to expand...

Maybe they never got over their childhood fear of cooties, lol.

In all seriousness, though, I don't see this is being any different from my obligation to put up with someone's profanity in public, when I choose to go to public places. When a young woman exclaims "Jesus ****ing Christ within ear shot of me, I find it a little offensive, because I wouldn't use that term in a public setting, but since I choose to go into the public, I am essentially obligated to tolerate her freedom of expression, no matter how offensive I find it.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Lutherf said:
Who has to participate? If you don't want to pray then just be respectful of those who do.

What the hell is wrong with people? Are they scared that the prayers of someone next to them are going to rub off? Are they so faithless in their atheism that they believe they'll be converted just because of association?
Click to expand...

If they do it at the end, they don't waste the time of the people who don't choose to participate in the prayer. Why does the prayer have to take place at the beginning? Will God not listen if it happens later in the day?
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

tacomancer said:
Interesting ruling. By that definition it seems a Hindu person can ask for ganash to be included and they would either have to get unspecific enough that the prayer has no meaning or they have to include ganash.
Seems to coincide with the baphomet thing happening over in Oklahoma.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, it's all based on a "good-faith" effort at inclusion. Basically the prayer offered would have to be very non-specific "Dear Deity, without mentioning anybody in particular. If you even exist at all, which you may or may not. Please direct our efforts to be pleasing to you, if that's at all possible since we don't actually know what would be pleasing to you, or in fact who you are."
 
Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

rocket88 said:
That's the thing, it's all based on a "good-faith" effort at inclusion. Basically the prayer offered would have to be very non-specific "Dear Deity, without mentioning anybody in particular. If you even exist at all, which you may or may not. Please direct our efforts to be pleasing to you, if that's at all possible since we don't actually know what would be pleasing to you, or in fact who you are."
Click to expand...

It's a pyrrhic win for those who would seek to impose faith in public life.

It's completely consistent with the first amendment though. All or nothing.
 
Last edited:
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

AliHajiSheik said:
If they do it at the end, they don't waste the time of the people who don't choose to participate in the prayer. Why does the prayer have to take place at the beginning? Will God not listen if it happens later in the day?
Click to expand...

If "a waste if time" is the concern then why not ban the national anthem and other preface ceremonies? He'll, why not just play the last quarter or 9th inning of the game?
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

It's about time we put a stop to the over-interpretation of the 1st Amendment.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Lutherf said:
If "a waste if time" is the concern then why not ban the national anthem and other preface ceremonies? He'll, why not just play the last quarter or 9th inning of the game?
Click to expand...

When there is a thread about banning things, then we can discuss that then. For now, this is a thread about what they are permitting and my suggestion that if they have to do a prayer, then do it at the end so those who do not wish to participate can leave when the official proceedings end. This is especially true if 100 religions show up for each meeting and they all want to do a prayer before official proceedings begin. I'm trying to come up with a reasonable compromise. What's yours?
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

I'm disappointed they didn't ban prayer altogether in public meetings. I don't really care one way or the other about the legal issues, I just can't stand to hear a bunch of hypocrites go through the charade. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I see the pre-meeting prayers as nothing more than "LOOK AT US PRAYING!! See, we really are religious, and you know that from this public display of piety!"

And then the meeting starts and you can guess everyone's vote by who their donors are, where the power structure breaks down, who owes whom a favor, whose son or brother owns a tract of land that will double in value overnight when it's rezoned, etc. Might as well have a prayer before a poker game, or in the lobby of the whore house.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

I really don't understand why some religious folks have this "Look at me, I'm praying" need before meetings that they feel needs to be forced on everyone to see.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

apdst said:
It's about time we put a stop to the over-interpretation of the 1st Amendment.
Click to expand...

I somehow doubt you would agree to have several prayers of different religions before a meeting and only "approve" of Christian prayers being forced on everyone to hear. So please, don't try and pretend this is a 1st amendment issue for you. This is a "We want to cram our CHRISTIAN prayers down people's throats" concern.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom