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Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93:217]

Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Del Zeppnile said:
In this situation was there a long line of people asking for different prayers? Why do you feel it necessary to impose the will of the minority on the majority? Your comment about what "God" would be bored with tells it all. You are offended that there are people who have either a faith in something, or just don't mind the tradition of having an invocation before a proceeding.



Here is a compromise: Don't enter the meeting until after the prayer.
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So you are advocating only the prayers of the majority of the group to begin the meeting, but are against more people praying in their own faith before the meeting? Yes, I have an issue with that. I would be against it if you were in the minority and don't want to hear some Hindu prayer (or whatever, assuming you are not Hindu) and not hear your own prayer said. It is called respect and if you don't respect the religions of others before a civic meeting, then why should they respect yours.

You are looking for a reason to think I'm against you, your God, or your prayers. I'm not. Schedule the prayers so that they end at the meeting beginning and all if fine with me. I was making a fricking suggestion to compromise. You want it your way and view anything else as an infringement of your right to pray.

My beliefs--Freedom of religion and freedom from religion--just don't impose on my time.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Filthy McNasty said:
You are right, it is not. Though a prayer was held before the meeting. :roll:
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Why do that?
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Kreton said:
It is if the participants choose to include it.
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Seems to be how it's playing in Topeka.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

calamity said:
Seems to be how it's playing in Topeka.
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It's actually how it is done in city hall meetings and council meetings from coast to coast. For hundreds of years. Guess you will never get used to it, much less over it.:mrgreen:
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Filthy McNasty said:
Why is the sky blue?
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Because red, orange and yellow light passes right through the air while the gas absorbs blue?
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Filthy McNasty said:
It's actually how it is done in city hall meetings and council meetings from coast to coast. For hundreds of years. Guess you will never get used to it, much less over it.:mrgreen:
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It's done in congress too...for hundreds of years. Doesn't make it right.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

calamity said:
Because red, orange and yellow light passes right through the air while the gas absorbs blue?
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Yes that is correct, in fact you might say it is common knowledge. Like "why" citizens in cities and towns in America have chosen for hundreds of years to have a prayer or benediction before the aforementioned meetings. Your stunning ignorance about of all this makes none of it any less obvious.

calamity said:
It's done in congress too...for hundreds of years. Doesn't make it right.
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Does not make it wrong either, as much as "you say so" appeals to you.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Kreton said:
Tell me how it is different.
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Okay, next time your town hall or city counsel or...which ever likes to pray before the meetings (And I'm sure it's one-prayer fits all religions), then request a little Mozart, and ask them to forego showing TV programs, especially anything that might have been recorded in relationship to the agenda of the public meeting.

Well, your god is gonna be damn disappointed that you compare music to prayer.

Religious Prayer - How many types of prayer are there?

Catholic Prayer -,I think that they have like 5 different types of prayer. I see other religions have up to 6 types of prayer.

Where do you wanna start?
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Filthy McNasty said:
Yes that is correct, in fact you might say it is common knowledge. Like "why" citizens in cities and towns in America have chosen for hundreds of years to have a prayer or benediction before the aforementioned meetings. Your stunning ignorance about of all this makes none of it any less obvious.


Does not make it wrong either, as much as "you say so" appeals to you.
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The US has about 80% of its population believing in myths, superstitions, and fairy tales that we summarily call religion. Western Europe has less than 50%. Japan has even fewer. We are falling behind.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Filthy McNasty said:
Well the bad news for you is that the Prayer Nazi's are out of luck. In general nobody buys your tortured rationale. You are not really interested in hearing much less thinking about anything BUT your dictate. You blithely sidestep and ignore any attempts to get you to engage outside of your dictate. When I point out the fallacy of your Satanist hypothetical (not surprisingly coming from someone rejecting everything in favor of their own personal opinion) you say that does not matter! Of course in order to explain your opinion, you have to first post erroneous hypotheticals which you will later state really mean noting at all! Yeah that much was obvious. :roll:


I think I'll do the opposite and I'm not religious. I'll be thankful that narrow minded people engaging in specious arguments predicated in willful ignorance and obstinacy don't make for convincing or persuasive advocates of or opponents of anything.




There is that tortured rationale again. Now allowing a prayer before a meeting is somehow the establishment of religion in government! Yes yes, it likely is time for you to run along. It's getting eyeball high in bovine feces up in here. :2wave:
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For someone not religious as you claim...you sure are doing your own clinging...which is to support dismantling separation of church and state.

I had to literally go, leave my home, drive 80 miles. I wasn't running away from an argument. I'll hang in for days if your up to it.

If you're eyeball high in Bovine feces - perhaps you should run alone. I'm surrounded by Texas Beef Master Ranches. No bother to me. In fact, you might shovel some up and bag it. It's worth some money.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Kreton said:
It what way are they not? You are saying people shouldn't pray out loud because you don't want to hear it. How is that any different than me not wanting to hear singing?
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Oh, but you would want to hear...JESUS LOVES ME THIS I KNOWWWWWWWWWW! It's a town hall favorite.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Moon said:
It's a simple question. I can't define the harm you suffer from someone saying a prayer because it's not something I've experienced. If you're not able.or willing to answer, then I guess that's an answer in and if itself.

If you're not familiar the dictionary definition of the word, then by all means look it up.
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Your snarkiness is unwarranted. Tone it down.

Yes, my children experienced harm from a prayer given prior to a public event.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Zyphlin said:
Well, he seems to be suggesting that an individual use their own definition for harm.

"If YOU have been harmed by a prayer, or think you could be, then tell me how."

Basically, he's asking that if you personally think you've been harmed (so however you personally define harm), or think you could be, he would like you to explain how that is.

His definition of harm doesn't really matter much when asking you if YOU think you have or could be harmed...because nothing forces you to use his definition, so there's no reason for you to think you've been harmed or not harmed based on HIS definition.

Basically, he seems to be asking people to do what calamity did....explain whether or not they personally think prayer at a public meeting harms them, and how.

Calamity explained by explaining his apparent definition of harm....IE, an action that runs counter to his particular desire for how the world should be.
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Sorry for the delayed response. I had a plane to catch.

If "harm" is defined only on personal terms we're back to square one, the term is meaningless. What we will have - and it will happen in the future - is that the extremists such as calamity and Moot will declare "harm" only as it defends their position. Christians who are not extremists and non-Christians who are not extremists will, as so often happens, be caught in the crossfire of intolerance, disrespect and bigotry.

The vast, vast, vast, vast majority of Christians and non-Christians have been and will be bushwhacked, pissed at and pissed on at the work of a few.
 
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Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93]

All this talk about harm is interesting. Does anyone honestly think people who are openly hostile or hateful towards religion increasingly forcing religion out of the public eye because being confronted with it offends them is not going to cause harm to people of faith or to society? People who feel that way are relying on their own sort of superstition about human nature and the morality of reason.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93]

I really don't see an issue with it so long as all faiths in the community are being represented and the prayer isn't specifically addressing a single faith. Other than that, I don't give a rat's bum what individual people pray to. Just don't try to preach to me and we'll be good.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting [W:93]

Liberals argue that states are allowed to restrict peoples right to bear arms, through licensing laws or outright bans, because the state is not limited by the federal constitution that just the federal government is. Using that same logic there is no reason why state, county's, etc cannot be free to promote religion, doing so does not violate insuring that the federal government does not promote the religion.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Kreton said:
I dont like to hear people talk about tv shows. Should that not be allowed? Or people signing? Expressing concern about the government? Where are you drawing this line? It seems like you think only the religious voice should be oppressed.
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I'm confused. Does your religion not work if you can't involve it in government? Christians would be the first ones crying and whining when a town hall meeting gets opened up with a muslim prayer.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

calamity said:
The US has about 80% of its population believing in myths, superstitions, and fairy tales that we summarily call religion. Western Europe has less than 50%. Japan has even fewer. We are falling behind.
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There really is something special about someone using numbers they created themselves, to say that the country that leads in that stat is falling "behind". :lamo


Removable Mind said:
For someone not religious as you claim...you sure are doing your own clinging...which is to support dismantling separation of church and state.

I had to literally go, leave my home, drive 80 miles. I wasn't running away from an argument. I'll hang in for days if your up to it.

If you're eyeball high in Bovine feces - perhaps you should run alone. I'm surrounded by Texas Beef Master Ranches. No bother to me. In fact, you might shovel some up and bag it. It's worth some money.
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The word "cling" is one you drug into this is one of your previous post instead of addressing what was said to you. I see you still can't address anything said to you, but you say you are up for days more of this? No doubt you'd love several more days to try and explain how your tortured rationale really really is all about "seperation of church and state". Except you don't have the slightest grasp of the matter. Particularly since you keep trying to act as if a prayer before a meeting is the government (either at the local or national level) trying to establish a religion. Which is just asinine. :roll:
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Removable Mind said:
Okay, next time your town hall or city counsel or...which ever likes to pray before the meetings (And I'm sure it's one-prayer fits all religions), then request a little Mozart, and ask them to forego showing TV programs, especially anything that might have been recorded in relationship to the agenda of the public meeting.

Well, your god is gonna be damn disappointed that you compare music to prayer.

Religious Prayer - How many types of prayer are there?

Catholic Prayer -,I think that they have like 5 different types of prayer. I see other religions have up to 6 types of prayer.

Where do you wanna start?
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If me and the majority of the people in that meeting wanted to hear mozart before the town hall meeting, yes it will be played.

And that doesn't answer my question. You said people shouldn't be allowed to pray out loud because you don't like it. How is that any different from anything else that people don't want to hear? Don't duck the question.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

Risky Thicket said:
Your snarkiness is unwarranted. Tone it down.
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You really should follow your own advice. Other wise you're just a hypocrite.

Risky Thicket said:
Yes, my children experienced harm from a prayer given prior to a public event.
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What was the harm they experienced?

What I'm trying to get to is that freedom of speech, expression and religion harm no one. Being offended is not harming you. Hearing a prayer from another religion is not harming anyone. I think it would do people a whole lot more good if they were exposed more often to things with which they disagree.
 
Re: Supreme Court ruling favors prayer at council meeting

calamity said:
The US has about 80% of its population believing in myths, superstitions, and fairy tales that we summarily call religion. Western Europe has less than 50%. Japan has even fewer. We are falling behind.
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Falling behind what?
 
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