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Militia around Bundy Ranch set up checkpoints, demand papers, control taffic flow

Hatuey said:
You don't have a right to welfare either. People are denied welfare benefits every single day.
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People are also approved every single day. Are you willing to go on record denouncing welfare?
 
mac said:
All of the people that are affected by it.
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So then you're an anarchist, since a tax which everyone subject to agrees with is not a tax but a voluntary giving.
 
Cryptic said:
The cartoon is not accurate at all:

- First the cross on the holster conveys the impression that the militia are all christian inspired. The reality is that many, perhaps most, are secular
-The CSA battle flag? Most and perhaps nearly all of the militia types at the ranch were not southereners.

Rather, the opposite is true. The South's religous heritiage tends to support "giving to ceaser what is ceaser's". That does not mean that Bundy does not have support in the south, but I bet the supporters are fewer in proportion to the west and say, Michigan. In the end, the South has never been a hot bed of support for tax evaders.
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Because Bundy has been giving Caesar his due?
 
mac said:
No, they disagree with federal control of the land. That is not wrong.
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I disagree with your control over your land, so I'm going to start having my horde of bovines **** all over it.
 
Paleocon said:
So then you're an anarchist, since a tax which everyone subject to agrees with is not a tax but a voluntary giving.
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Nope. Like anything democratic....through a majority vote.
 
Deuce said:
I disagree with your control over your land, so I'm going to start having my horde of bovines **** all over it.
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You could try.
 
mac said:
Nope. Like anything democratic....through a majority vote.
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And would the vote have been any different had the Americas had direct representation in the House of Commons?
 
Deuce said:
Because Bundy has been giving Caesar his due?
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No, Bundy has not. He has been using a public recesource while refusing to pay for it.

On a broad average, very few of the tax protesters types are from the south. Most have been from the far west, or upper midwest. This does not mean that southereners like paying taxes or paying user fees. My hypothesis is that one of the reasons why southereners are not prone to violently resist paying taxes or user fees is because they tend to be religously conservative and Christianity states that what is owed to ceaser should be give to him.
 
mac said:
People are also approved every single day. Are you willing to go on record denouncing welfare?
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Denouncing people who go on welfare without a right to do so? Sure. Who do you know has bypassed the system and decided they'll simply show up without proper procedure to collect a check? ;)
 
Okay - I laughed at Bundy before . . . but this ****'s just too ****ed up. I'm not laughing now.

He's a total douche.

According to Horsford, his constituents say the militia have set up checkpoints where residents must prove they live in the area before they are allowed to pass and have set up a "persistent presence" along federal highways, and state and county roads. They also claim some have established an armed presence in the community.

Horsford told the sheriff that the militia are making people feel unsafe.
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Why are they harassing their fellow citizens?
 
Wiseone said:
Concerns growing about militia members at Bundy ranch - 8 News NOW

So like I said in other topics about this developing story, its gone beyond the unpaid fees for gazing on Federal land and turned into a question of whether or not we are going to allow an active insurgency to operate within this country.

Also, is it more ironic or sad that these folks who claim to want freedom are acting in exactly the manner of an authoritarian?
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I'm just going to say that it's both ironic and sad.




President Obama made some comments about all this: Obama Teaches Us All A Lesson About Cliven Bundy
 
I'm jumping in on this thread late, and perhaps someone has already pointed this out, but the claims of militia creating checkpoints, demanding papers etc is patently FALSE. How do I know this? Because I speak with the Bundy's personally every few days and also receive their updates.
I am a member of one of the militias that was represented at the ranch.

Now I ask you this: If the government came to your neighborhood and explained that the land your house sits on is no longer yours (or perhaps was never) and the court system failed to help you AND then a SWAT team showed up to evict you...what would you do? This is not a far-fetched scenario, my friends. It is happening all over the country.

Anyone who still believes the government is here to help and protect them REALLY needs to wake up.
 
I have read a little bit about this issue and it seems that he was fine with paying fee's to use federal land until it was no longer profitable to do so. Once they raised the fee's to the point where it started cutting into his profit, he all the sudden had a problem with it. Now all the sudden he's a constitutionalist.....Convenient huh? Paid fee's for decades, and all the sudden..... This guy is full of bull****. Sad thing is, he is putting people in harms way. Now he's got malicia on board who just want to drink some good moonshine and point guns at stuff in the woods out with him.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Okay - I laughed at Bundy before . . . but this ****'s just too ****ed up. I'm not laughing now.

He's a total douche.



Why are they harassing their fellow citizens?
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Well for one thing Aunt Spiker, the douchebags are from out of state, not from Nevada, the militia wouldn't know a local dog if it bit one in the arse. Which is probably the reasoning for them stopping people and asking them questions like the Chicago cops used to do in the 1950's and 1960's, who are you? where are you from? where are you going? who is in the car with you? who do you know from this area?

Some of those questions I suggested they asked might be unconstitutional for even a law enforcement officer to even think about asking, falls under civil rights too. What gives those people the right to ask people anything?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Okay - I laughed at Bundy before . . . but this ****'s just too ****ed up. I'm not laughing now.

He's a total douche.



Why are they harassing their fellow citizens?
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How do you know that they are? Because Horsford says that a guy that knows a guy said they were? Give me a break.
 
mac said:
No, they disagree with federal control of the land. That is not wrong.
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It's not wrong to disagree with something in principle. Violating the law in the process is a different story. There's nothing unjust whatsoever about paying fees for the usage of another's property.
 
Hatuey said:
Denouncing people who go on welfare without a right to do so? Sure. Who do you know has bypassed the system and decided they'll simply show up without proper procedure to collect a check? ;)
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Why would one have a right to welfare?
 
a351 said:
It's not wrong to disagree with something in principle. Violating the law in the process is a different story. There's nothing unjust whatsoever about paying fees for the usage of another's property.
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Two things, it's not "another's" property, it's public land. The other is that history is rife with instances of disobeying unjust laws to the point that the law is changed.
 
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