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Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly.....[W:696:1188]

Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Objective Voice said:
Excon,

Here's Cliven Bundy's statement again in his own words:



In each case, he may have believed he was speaking from a position of compassion, but he used blanket statements to make his point concerning Blacks (Negros), Mexicans and Spanish speaking people.

When speaking about Blacks, he would have been better off limiting his critique to only those Blacks who lived in government housing in Los Vegas. At least then people would know he was referring only to a small segment of Blacks who lived in a certain area/neighborhood he's seen in decline with his own eyes. Instead, he included ALL BLACKS in his rant and put down Black people and only Black people in his commentary.

Whether you want to believe it or not, his words WERE a blanket condemnation of Blacks in America and they were racists! Of course, you'll come back here and post once again that it was just a poor choice of words Bundy used and that may be true, but the words that did come out of his mouth were racists in nature. There's just no way to defend him on that.
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Some people believe Bundy went too far with his comments, some believe he didn't go far enough and defend this man.

If the man were a smart or intelligent person, he would have engaged his brain before his seemingly endless ramblings. He's a person that doesn't know when to just shut up or not say anything at all. He should have just commented on his personal experiences with dealing with the fed and left it at that.

Sure, he has every right to freedom of speech, but when he denigrates an entire group of people or persons, he will pay a hefty price for it. As it is, people painted him as a racist. He'll be sorry one day for his comments, if he already isn't. But I'd heard he doubled down on his comments, so he's really treading into dangerous territory for himself and his associates.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Objective Voice said:
but he used blanket statements to make his point concerning Blacks (Negros), Mexicans and Spanish speaking people.
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Wrong.
He spoke specifically of segments. That is your fault for not noticing that.
That is your bias influencing your own thoughts.
And your thoughts happen to be wrong.


Objective Voice said:
When speaking about Blacks, he would have been better off limiting his critique to only those Blacks who lived in government housing in Los Vegas. At least then people would know he was referring only to a small segment of Blacks who lived in a certain area/neighborhood he's seen in decline with his own eyes.
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He did. And we know that by context.


Objective Voice said:
Instead, he included ALL BLACKS in his rant and put down Black people and only Black people in his commentary.
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Wrong. That is nothing other than your own prejudices coming into play and not allowing you to see context.


Objective Voice said:
his words WERE a blanket condemnation of Blacks in America and they were racists!
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Wrong.


Objective Voice said:
but the words that did come out of his mouth were racists in nature.
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Wrong.


Objective Voice said:
There's just no way to defend him on that.
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As nothing he said was racist there is no treason to defend such, but he should be defended against ridiculous claims of racism/racist like you are making.
They are nothing more than bs coming from your own prejudicial and racial thoughts.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’[W:

AJiveMan said:
So, the whole premise of these statistics is FALSE and the statistics too are FALSE.
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Again you are lost and have no idea of what you speak.
You were the one repeatedly using the stats and didn't even understand what they represented.
That doesn't make them false. That make you ignorant of what they meant.​


As the above was already said, what is it you do not understand about the underlined?

As for what you quote of me (which shows your previous argument to be dishonest, as this shows you knew)
that speaks specifically to not knowing what welfare programs it included. Not that the information is false.
It is pretty sad that I have to explain these thing to you.

And then we go right back to the beginning of this exchange to see that I was using specific program numbers of Snap and TANF.
Both showing that blacks, by respective population, receive disproportionately more welfare than whites do.

I then pointed out that those percentages as provided by others (the 38.8 and 39.8 percentages) 1. Support that finding, and 2. Show that blacks receive more period.
It was then that you chose to run with those percentages not understanding what they showed and erroneously arguing they showed something they don't. :lamo
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Excon said:
Had you paid attention you would have known it has already been stated.

He is referring to work ethic.
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So then wouldn't he say "the never learned work ethic?" He said that they aborted their children and put their young men in jail because they never learned how to pick cotton. That is super racist. I have no idea why you're defending this guy. Either he said "they never learned how to pick cotton" because he sees black people as cotton pickers, or because he's used to thinking about them as cotton pickers. Which takes me back to: he's either ignorant and grew up in a racist environment, or he is racist.

You also said that he was talking about "the negro entrapped by welfare." No, he was talking about black people. Your opinion that he made that distinction comes from actually ignoring what he said rather than referencing it.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Mustachio said:
So then wouldn't he say "the never learned work ethic?" He said that they aborted their children and put their young men in jail because they never learned how to pick cotton. That is super racist.
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iLOL No it isn't.
Being poorly spoken or unable to express his thoughts clearly does not make a person racist.
It is absurd to assert such.


Mustachio said:
I have no idea why you're defending this guy. Either he said "they never learned how to pick cotton" because he sees black people as cotton pickers, or because he's used to thinking about them as cotton pickers. Which takes me back to: he's either ignorant and grew up in a racist environment, or he is racist.
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All assumptions based on your own prejudicial thoughts.
None based in context of what he said.


Mustachio said:
You also said that he was talking about "the negro entrapped by welfare." No, he was talking about black people. Your opinion that he made that distinction comes from actually ignoring what he said rather than referencing it.
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Wrong. This is nothing more than you going outside of context to falsely cast racial aspersions.



Your whole opinion is pretty sad considering he was speaking of concern, not of disparagement, hatred or intolerance.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Excon said:
What you think, being wrong as it is, matters not.
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Matter of opinion. Mine disagrees with yours.

Excon said:
Not even unintentionally.
He was speaking of concern, not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.
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Agreed in the main, but his words were unintentionally disparaging.

Excon said:
Yes you saying it was unintentional is bs as nothing he said was racist. He was speaking of concern, not disparagement, hatred
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Agreed in the main, but his words were unintentionally disparaging.

Excon said:
Oy vey! Which was out of context.
You do not get to put a person's words into the context you wish. Somebody would have to be totally debased from societal norms to do such a thing. (making them wrong)
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Again, no.

How can you seriously be claiming that his entire statement was out of context? What context am I missing here, then?

Excon said:
In context, they were words of concern. Not of disparagement, hatred or intolerance.
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Agreed in the main, but they were unintentionally disparaging.

Excon said:
No it wasn't. You are taking it out of context.
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I am not.

Excon said:
Of course you do. Doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.
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No, I am not.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

The Mark said:
Matter of opinion. Mine disagrees with yours.
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And your opinion is objectively wrong.

The Mark said:
but his words were unintentionally disparaging.
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iLOL :lamo
No they were not.

The Mark said:
but his words were unintentionally disparaging.
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iLOL :doh
No they were not.


The Mark said:
Again, no.
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Again yes. You clearly coming at this from a point of taking his words out of context.


The Mark said:
How can you seriously be claiming that his entire statement was out of context? What context am I missing here, then?
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In context, they were words of concern. Not of disparagement, hatred or intolerance.


The Mark said:
Agreed in the main, but they were unintentionally disparaging.
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No they were not. That is nothing more than your flawed thoughts.


The Mark said:
I am not.
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Yes you are taking it out of context.


The Mark said:
No, I am not.
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Yes you are wrong.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Excon said:
Again yes. You clearly coming at this from a point of taking his words out of context.
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I am not.


Excon said:
In context, they were words of concern. Not of disparagement, hatred or intolerance.
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Concern and unintentional disparagement.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

The Mark said:
I am not.
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Ye syou are taking his words out of context.
They were of concern, Not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.



The Mark said:
and unintentional disparagement.
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Wrong. That is out of context.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Excon said:
Ye syou are taking his words out of context.
They were of concern, Not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.



Wrong. That is out of context.
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I am explaining to you what I heard Bundy say, in context.

Why do you keep insisting that I'm taking his statement out of context?
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

The Mark said:
I am explaining to you what I heard Bundy say, in context.

Why do you keep insisting that I'm taking his statement out of context?
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And I keep telling you you are wrong, as in context his words were of concern. Not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.

You have to take them out of context to say otherwise. And that is what you are doing.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Excon,

Seems you're the only person left defending Mr. Bundy. Clearly, several people heard and read something completely different than you. In any case, IMO, Cliven Bunkdy used the wrong words to express his opinion concerning Black people based on his observation of a small group of Blacks living in a Los Vegas housing project. You just don't use slavery to illustrate a strong work ethic, family values/stability or morality of a people whether he spoke solely of the Blacks he witnessed in Los Vegas subsidized housing or he was speaking of Blacks ("the Negro") in general. It's not okay to use such a blanket statement regardless of his literacy level. But clearly you would rather defend him than admit he was wrong. So, to each his own...

Excon said:
And I keep telling you you are wrong, as in context his words were of concern. Not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.

You have to take them out of context to say otherwise. And that is what you are doing.
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That's the thing - no one's taking his words out of context! Yes, he started out saying things like "no one wants to go back" to the old days, but thing is he referred back to the old ways where Blacks were misused, abused, beaten, raped, families separated/destroyed and there was no upward mobility short of a slave becoming a "house nigga", the massa's nigga lover or his driver. Other than that, the vast majority of Black slaves wanted nothing to do with slavery! But many accepted their living/life-style conditions because they had no choice, NOT because they were happy to do it.

Put this way: If given the choice between living in servitude and doing what you're told told where your enemy holds all the power of life and death versus living in constant pain and misery, most people would choose keeping mum and living in servitude over being beaten or killed. That was the life-style condition of slavery.

Cliven Bundy was wrong no matter how hard you try to defend him.

With that, I'm done with this conversation.
 
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Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Objective Voice said:
Excon,

Seems you're the only person left defending Mr. Bundy. Clearly, several people heard and read something completely different than you. In any case, IMO, Cliven Bunkdy used the wrong words to express his opinion concerning Black people based on his observation of a small group of Blacks living in a Los Vegas housing project. You just don't use slavery to illustrate a strong work ethic, family values/stability or morality of a people whether he spoke solely of the Blacks he witnessed in Los Vegas subsidized housing or he was speaking of Blacks ("the Negro") in general. It's not okay to use such a blanket statement regardless of his literacy level. But clearly you would rather defend him than admit he was wrong. So, to each his own...
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He wasn't wrong.
He expressed concern.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Excon said:
And I keep telling you you are wrong, as in context his words were of concern. Not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.

You have to take them out of context to say otherwise. And that is what you are doing.
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I am not.

And I don't claim hatred or intolerance were in his words, so stop arguing against that.

His words seemed to be of concern. But they were ALSO unintentionally disparaging of black persons.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

The Mark said:
I am not.

And I don't claim hatred or intolerance were in his words, so stop arguing against that.

His words seemed to be of concern. But they were ALSO unintentionally disparaging of black persons.
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Yes you are.
And no they were not.
His words have to be taken out of context to say such. Which is exactly what you are doing.
His words were of concern, not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Excon said:
No they were not.
His words have to be taken out of context to say such. Which is exactly what you are doing.
His words were of concern, not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.
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I did not take his words out of context.

He spoke with concern, but unintentionally disparaged black persons.

No hatred or intolerance was there.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

The Mark said:
I did not take his words out of context.
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Yes you have.
To claim unintentional disparagement is taking his words out of context.
He was speaking of concern, not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.
 
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Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’[W:

rcart76 said:
Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments,



What the hell is he talking about? We had a better family life as slaves !!!!! Most of our family members were separated and sold to other plantations. And you guys on the right support this clown !!!
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First, if you listened to Fox nobody supports his racism. They support his defiance of Big Government.

Second, I am not sure the guy is a racist from those comments.

Third, the guy is clearly an idiot.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Excon said:
Yes you have.
To claims unintentional disparagement is taking his words out of context.
He was speaking of concern, not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.
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I never claimed he was speaking of any of those things.

His words, however, did disparage black persons, whether he intended them too or not.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Excon said:
Yes you have.
To claims unintentional disparagement is taking his words out of context.
He was speaking of concern, not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.
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Mark just said there was no hatred or intolerance... but there was disparagement.
He is doing so due to his complete lack of intelligence and knowledge over history.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Bodhisattva said:
Mark just said there was no hatred or intolerance... but there was disparagement.
He is doing so due to his complete lack of intelligence and knowledge over history.
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Exactly.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

The Mark said:
I never claimed he was speaking of any of those things.

His words, however, did disparage black persons, whether he intended them too or not.
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Yes you have.
And you did it again.
To claims unintentional disparagement is taking his words out of context.
He was speaking of concern, not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Would anyone care if some black clown such as Eric Holder spewed such ****?

Yeah I think not.

Now that it is a wealthy business owner progressives have redeemed their pitchforks.

Funny how progressives never cry "racism" when non-whites use racist language...

The war against the straight white male Christian continues...
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Excon said:
Yes you have.
And you did it again.
To claims unintentional disparagement is taking his words out of context.
He was speaking of concern, not disparagement, hatred or intolerance.
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He was indeed speaking with concern.

However, his lack of knowledge led him to make statements which disparaged black persons.

Thus, unintentionally disparaging of black persons.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Mr.Nick said:
Would anyone care if some black clown such as Eric Holder spewed such ****?

Yeah I think not.

Now that it is a wealthy business owner progressives have redeemed their pitchforks.

Funny how progressives never cry "racism" when non-whites use racist language...

The war against the straight white male Christian continues...
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ANYONE who said what Bundy said would be an idiot, and unintentionally racist. Regardless of their own race.
 
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