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Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly.....[W:696:1188]

Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Oy vey...that's not what racism is entirely. Disparaging a race is also racism.
Oy vey! Is right.
Most folks know that the misuse of the word has lead to it meaning other things, none of which apply here, that is what you do not seem to understand.
There is no racism here. None.

What amazes me is that despite the fact that there are far, far more whites on welfare than blacks, Bundy chose to single out the blacks. That's racism. Most people on welfare in this country (including the moocher Bundy) are white. Singling out black people is racist.
Oy vey! Is right again. He was speaking of gov involvement/programs. He expressed concern for other races.
His words were not racist.

As for your claim of a majority of whites on welfare?
1. There better be, as whites are a far greater percentage of the population.
2. He wasn't speaking of the whites he saw on welfare or expressing concern about them. Nor does he need to.
It is actually irrelevant to his expressions of concern for the negro in the welfare state.
3. Blacks by respective population, make up a greater percentage on welfare than whites do by their population.


"the negro?" Wow...you didn't even quote him on it. You just went there, didn't you?
Wtf is your major malfunction over it? It isn't a word of disparagement like nigger is.

Was it not the negro on welfare to whom he was referring?
Of course it was. That isn't racist.
Datred, but not racist.


What surprises me is that he doesn't think it has the same effect on white people? Ever take a ride through the Ozarks or Harlan County? Or the entire state of West Virginia? Or any of the other red states that take more than they contribute to the Treasury (of which all but three are welfare states)?
You have no clue as to what he thinks of such.

Talk about fat, lazy moochers!
Irrelevant bigoted opinion. Go figure.


"We’ve progressed quite a bit from that day until now, and sure don’t want to go back; we sure don’t want the colored people to go back to that point; we sure don’t want the Mexican people to go back to that point; and we can make a difference right now by taking care of some of these bureaucracies, and do it in a peaceful way."

Calling black people "colored people" is racist, FYI. Calling Latinos "Mexicans" is racist too. This guy is one big, racist pee-bag.
Wrong.
NAACP
Colored people may be dated, but it is not racist.
Neither is Mexican.


Those are exactly the comments of a racist. Right down to calling Latinos "Mexicans" and calling blacks "colored"
Wrong. Those words are not racist. You clearly are seeing what you want to see when it isn't there.
There is no expressions of disparagement in those words. They are not the words of a racist, but of some one who is concerned.
It is your own convoluted bigoted thoughts that do not allow you to see the truth.


There is no dispute. Bundy is a deadbeat who doesn't pay his bills and mooches off the government.
Wrong again, as it is disputed.


Not in those exact words,
Yes we know, that is what you were told. It is you choosing to use those bigoted dispargaing words that are not accurate.


but they did rule that he's been mooching off government land for decades. That would make him a welfare queen, would it not? What do you call someone who mooches off the government for 20 years? A welfare queen.
And again, it is disputed.

And I also told you I am not arguing that. So spare me ill-informed opinions.


You've been doing so this entire thread.
:lamo:lamo:lamo Get a grip dude.
And a clear sign your thinker is broken.





HE IS PAYING THE GUY TO PROTECT HIM. Literally.
YOur lame and dishonest argument is lame and dishonest.
He is armed security.
You can not show he lied or even present any such evidence, because it doesn't exist.

So stop with the dishonesty.


Of which Bundy has none. Nor does he have a sense of integrity either. Complaining about "colored people" on welfare as he mooches off the government to the tune of millions of dollars. What a sponge.
Holy ****.
What you think he has or doesn't have matters not. It is just more dishonest bs from you.
He was speaking of work ethic, and you are so obviously bigoted that you can't/wont see that.
He speaks of concern and you say he is complaining about colored people.
You are out of touch with reality.


What amazes me is why you would defend big business paying these wages which only increases the amount of people who need these welfare programs. If you want to get people off welfare, pay them more.
Oh look at that. More irrelevant and dishonest comments from you. Must be because you know your whole position in regards to his comments is wrong and untenable.

It figures.
Get showing this defense I have made of big businesses.
Either that, or knock of your absurd dishonest irrelevant comments.





I think work ethic is something that comes from your parents, it's not inherent in race. Bundy seems to think it's inherent in race. Hence his comments about "learning to pick cotton".
Your thoughts are skewed again, which comes as no surprise.

Not having been taught because of welfare. Duh!


Conservatives are nothing but racists. The entire modern, Buckley-led Conservative movement came about as a reaction to Civil Rights advances. And all the Conservatives -ALL OF THEM- opposed Civil Rights and still do to this day.
More irrelevant bigoted bs to the topic.
You just can't help yourself.
Btw, that liberal lie has lost it's traction. It isn't true. You have the liberals/democrats mixed up with the conservative/republicans.


I think you're so frustrated that I'm smacking you around that you're resorting to Sarah Palin word salad to make yourself feel better.
:doh
Yep.
Just as I called it. You are not living in reality.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

It isn't a word of disparagement like nigger is.

It is a word of disparagement in society. I agree it's not as bad as nigger but even you have to admit if a GOP candidate used the word "negro" to describe someone that person would NOT be elected.

I don't think Bundy is racist, but I do think he is an idiot.

To compare slavery to ANY type of welfare program is stupid. Those on the right ALWAYS say that ANYONE can become ANYTHING they want to if they put their mind to it. Therefore using personal responsibility it isn't the program keeping the person down it's the person.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Is that all you think racism comprises?
We eliminate one aspect of what the definition has become, one item at a time. Or do you not know how to debate?

Since you can't do it, his comments do not qualify under that aspect.


So now show where he was purposely disparaging, or showed hatred or even or intolerance of the black race.

We already know you can't do that either.
So you have absolutely nothing other than your false bigoted claims.




Racism
rac·ism
noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.​

Racism | Define Racism at Dictionary.com
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Whatever, post a link that shows that BLM personel are authorized to use deadly force.

Should be easy...yes?
Are you seriously trying to suggest that LEO aren't authorized to use deadly force???


The BLM fields a force of approximately 200 Law Enforcement Rangers (uniformed officers) and 70 Special Agents (criminal investigators) who enforce a wide range of laws and regulations in the prevention, detection, and investigation of crimes affecting public lands resources. These crimes include mineral resource theft; wilderness area violations; hazardous materials dumping; archaeological and paleontological resource theft and vandalism; cultivation, manufacture, smuggling, and use of illegal drugs; timber, forest product, and native plant theft; off-highway vehicle use; alcohol related crimes; and wildland arson.

\\Law Enforcement"]\\Law Enforcement[/URL]
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

It is a word of disparagement in society. I agree it's not as bad as nigger but even you have to admit if a GOP candidate used the word "negro" to describe someone that person would NOT be elected.

I don't think Bundy is racist, but I do think he is an idiot.

To compare slavery to ANY type of welfare program is stupid. Those on the right ALWAYS say that ANYONE can become ANYTHING they want to if they put their mind to it. Therefore using personal responsibility it isn't the program keeping the person down it's the person.
Idiot?
Poor at expressing himself, and ignorant of the subject material, sure. But idiot?
I don't see it.

His use clearly was not racist.
In this case it was antiquated and without disparagement.

And yes I do know that some find it offensive. As far as I am concerned intent matters. Not reception.
And frankly, in today's day and age no one goes around using negro to be offensive, they use the word nigger or kaffer.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

OK: How is a guy getting something for free from the Federal government not welfare? Why should Bundy get welfare, and why does the extreme right want to defend his welfare with violence if necessary?

No-one is defending his "welfare", they're denouncing the tactics of the BLM/Feds.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

And then you woke up and came to your senses...
Yes, pointing out that he was wrong is coming to ones senses. Now all you have to do is do the same.

His comments were not racist.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

It is a word of disparagement in society. I agree it's not as bad as nigger but even you have to admit if a GOP candidate used the word "negro" to describe someone that person would NOT be elected.

I don't think Bundy is racist, but I do think he is an idiot.

To compare slavery to ANY type of welfare program is stupid. Those on the right ALWAYS say that ANYONE can become ANYTHING they want to if they put their mind to it. Therefore using personal responsibility it isn't the program keeping the person down it's the person.

Sure it's the person. A person baited into dependance.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

If there is anyone who thinks that African Americans were better off on a cotton plantation,

This image is proof that their belief is wrong View attachment 67165556

Bundy did not make that statement that they were. He asked a rhetorical question with the intent of displaying that the African-American community (Negros, in his words) are no better off now under welfare policies.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Idiot?
Poor at expressing himself, and ignorant of the subject material, sure. But idiot?
I don't see it.

His use clearly was not racist.
In this case it was antiquated and without disparagement.

And yes I do know that some find it offensive. As far as I am concerned intent matters. Not reception.
And frankly, in today's day and age no one goes around using negro to be offensive, they use the word nigger or kaffer.

Yes, He was an idiot. To compare slavery to a welfare program, yes he was an idiot. The right constantly says that people can do whatever and be whatever they want to so it is idiotic to blame welfare.

and I never said he was racist but yes the word in the way he used it WAS offensive to most. YOU may not have thought so and that is fine. I respect the fact YOU didn't think it was offensive.

And its not just "some" that find it offensive, MOST people find negro offensive.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Sure it's the person. A person baited into dependance.

But it is the person that is responsible for their own future right? I mean that's what you on the right think.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

No-one is defending his "welfare", they're denouncing the tactics of the BLM/Feds.

Actually in the number of threads on this, there ARE people that have been defending his actions. They claim since the BLMs reason for the grazing fee is bull****, he has every right to do what he did. May not be a majority of people, but they are there and have posted in the threads for support of his actions.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

He made no racist remark.
Show where anything said says he thinks his race is better than another. Can't do it can you?

He made no racist remark.


I'll chosen words to express himself? Sure.
But not racist, racial or even prejudiced.
He made several faulty assumptions which led to his (possibly) unknowingly racist remarks about "the negro".

My main quibble is his apparent viewpoint - namely that he spoke of black persons as a whole rather than individuals. Granted people do that all the time, but I dislike it.

My second quibble is that he apparently doesn't realize how idiotic comparing any form of life to a life of slavery is. Even if black persons somehow are worse off now in terms of culture, family, and so forth, at least they're not slaves. For ****s sake. To say such a thing shows either a near-total lack of historical knowledge....or some crazy kind of stereotype about black persons wherein being enslaved is somehow acceptable to them...or something else, I dunno.

My third quibble was his choice of words. Not much of one, because it seems to me that he doesn't realize many persons stopped using "the negro", "colored people", "negroes", and so forth as words to describe black persons awhile ago. I'm not someone who subscribes to the notion that only politically correct words should be used, but....
Actually this ties in with quibble #1 - he used the term "the negro" as if he were speaking of a single entity.
I dislike that.

----------------

I don't think he knows he's slightly racist/bigoted. Or at the least he has stereotypes and uses them as reality.

As I have said before.

He's racist.
But unknowingly so.
Because stupid.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Yes, He was an idiot. To compare slavery to a welfare program, yes he was an idiot.
Ok you are an extremist as well.
Your claim is ridiculous in light of what he explained he meant.
Being poor at expressing himself, and ignorant of the subject material does not make one an idiot.


but yes the word in the way he used it WAS offensive to most.
No it wasn't.


MOST people find negro offensive.
That really isn't something you can prove.
So bs.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

That really isn't something you can prove.
So bs.

Sure it is, have a candidate you support use that word and see how far he gets in getting elected. Sure fire way to prove it, however, noone in their right mind would do that because they know MOST PEOPLE find it offensive. It's common sense man.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Ok you are an extremist as well.
Your claim is ridiculous in light of what he explained he meant.
Being poor at expressing himself, and ignorant of the subject material does not make one an idiot.

Yes, I must be an extremist because I don't agree with you. :roll: Heaven forbid someone has a different opinion than you, they must be an extremist.

Sorry but he is an idiot, you want to support him fine. go for it.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Are you saying you think the blacks were happier as slaves?

Are you saying the projects are a significant improvement?

Are you saying all/most black people live in the projects?
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Yes, I must be an extremist because I don't agree with you.
You are an extremest because what he said does not equate to being an idiot which you want to continue to call him.
That is on you, not me.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

He made several faulty assumptions which led to his (possibly) unknowingly racist remarks about "the negro".
He made no racist statement.
He spoke of concern.
Not disparagement, hatred or intolerance of.
You are making a false accusation.



My main quibble is his apparent viewpoint - namely that he spoke of black persons as a whole rather than individuals. Granted people do that all the time, but I dislike it.
:doh
He spoke of those in the welfare state.
So that is you assuming he is speaking of all, rather than those specifically involved with welfare.
The error is again on your end.



My second quibble is that he apparently doesn't realize how idiotic comparing any form of life to a life of slavery is. Even if black persons somehow are worse off now in terms of culture, family, and so forth, at least they're not slaves. For ****s sake. To say such a thing shows either a near-total lack of historical knowledge....or some crazy kind of stereotype about black persons wherein being enslaved is somehow acceptable to them...or something else, I dunno.
And again, refer to his explanation. He was referring to specifics under slavery. He though of the family unit as it existed. (in some cases)
And if you think the only thing that happened was like that of "twelve years a slave", you would be mistaken.

Regardless, he was still speaking of concern.
Not hatred, intolerance or disparagement.



My third quibble was his choice of words. Not much of one, because it seems to me that he doesn't realize many persons stopped using "the negro", "colored people", "negroes", and so forth as words to describe black persons awhile ago. I'm not someone who subscribes to the notion that only politically correct words should be used, but....
Actually this ties in with quibble #1 - he used the term "the negro" as if he were speaking of a single entity.
I dislike that.

----------------

I don't think he knows he's slightly racist/bigoted. Or at the least he has stereotypes and uses them as reality.

As I have said before.

He's racist.
But unknowingly so.
Because stupid.
And it can be seen that you are wrong. Racists do not express concern.
They disparage and express hatred and intolerance. He did not do those things.
All you have is he used a word that is antiquated. But he didn't use it in a way to disparage, so you should have enough common sense to understand and raise above your own bigotry and recognize that.
But I am sure you wont.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

You are an extremest because what he said does not equate to being an idiot which you want to continue to call him.
That is on you, not me.

No it is my opinion. If I were an extremist I would say he was a racist. I didn't. So that is on you, not me. You think anyone that disagrees with you is an extremist. That IS idiotic on your part.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

He made no racist statement.
He spoke of concern.
Not disparagement, hatred or intolerance of.
You are making a false accusation.
I viewed his narrative about black persons as disparaging. Matter of opinion I suppose. And I think that he did not intend it as such - only his unwitting stereotypical view of things got in the way.

:doh
He spoke of those in the welfare state.
So that is you assuming he is speaking of all, rather than those specifically involved with welfare.
The error is again on your end.
When someone uses the term/phrase "the negro", it sure as hell sounds to me as if he's referring to all black people. What, only black people on welfare get to be called "the negro"?, now? How is that fair?

And again, refer to his explanation. He was referring to specifics under slavery. He though of the family unit as it existed. (in some cases)
And if you think the only thing that happened was like that of "twelve years a slave", you would be mistaken.

Regardless, he was still speaking of concern.
Not hatred, intolerance or disparagement.
I would tend to agree.

As I said, his comments make me think one of two things are likely:

  1. He has an appalling lack of knowledge, partially of history, partially of present, which led him to compare current conditions to conditions during slavery, and not instantly dismiss it as a reasonable comparison.
  2. He actually thinks slavery would be better for black persons.

As I see it, this means he was either unintentionally racist, or intentionally racist, with the former being most likely.

And it can be seen that you are wrong. Racists do not express concern.
They disparage and express hatred and intolerance. He did not do those things.
All you have is he used a word that is antiquated. But he didn't use it in a way to disparage, so you should have enough common sense to understand and raise above your own bigotry and recognize that.
But I am sure you wont.
As I said, I think he's unknowingly racist.

As in, he doesn't realize that what he's saying is racist.

His word use was indeed antiquated in PC terms (in the past it WAS acceptable to use the term "negro"), yet it was not his word choice that I found unacceptable. It was how he used it.

It appeared disparaging to me.

But again, that's just my take on some words which only one person knows the true context of.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Yes, pointing out that he was wrong is coming to ones senses. Now all you have to do is do the same.

His comments were not racist.

Fine I will, do you have the intelligence to comprehend it or the intellectual integrity to admit when I prove you wrong?

Your listed definition of racism: Racism
rac·ism

noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Chattel slavery

Chattel slavery, also called traditional slavery, is so named because people are treated as the chattel (personal property) of an owner and are bought and sold as if they were commodities. It is the original form of slavery and the least prevalent form of slavery today.


After 1640, planters started to ignore the expiration of indentured contracts and kept their servants as slaves for life. This was demonstrated by the case Johnson v. Parker where the court ruled that John Casor, an indentured servant, be returned to Johnson who claimed that Casor belonged to him for his life
Slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Abraham Lincoln expressed this idea in one of his famous 1858 debates with Senator Stephen Douglas: “[T]here is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”
Ten Reasons Not to Abolish Slavery : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

In 1677, Dr.
William Petty declared that savage people were the direct link between Caucasians and the apes. The
chain provided an excellent justification to slavery: savage people, such as Africans, were inferior
and were put on the earth to serve the superior Europeans
(McCaskell, 1).
From your posted definition:
the right to rule others
http://pat.tamu.edu/journal/vol-1/thompson.pdf


Now, it's common knowledge attained from every elementary school in this country that the following are staples of American chattel slavery.

The overwhelming race of slave masters were white.
The overwhelming race of overseers were white.
The overwhelming race of runaway slave catchers were white.
The overwhelming belief was that Blacks were morally, intellectually and spiritually inferior to whites.
The overwhelming belief was that the role of Blacks as inferior and therefore naturally fitted to the role as chattel to whites was scientifically and morally correct.

Now a White man wonders if Black people were better off as slaves picking cotton. Are you suggesting that this man is so ignorant that he isn't aware of the ideology and beliefs that allowed slavery to exist in this country??..of course he isn't that ignorant.

Blacks returning to slavery would require that someone knows what's best for them and is better qualified to run their lives, those persons would be White people and that's racist.
 
Re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’

Fine I will, do you have the intelligence to comprehend it or the intellectual integrity to admit when I prove you wrong?

Your listed definition of racism: Racism
rac·ism

noun

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Chattel slavery

Chattel slavery, also called traditional slavery, is so named because people are treated as the chattel (personal property) of an owner and are bought and sold as if they were commodities. It is the original form of slavery and the least prevalent form of slavery today.


After 1640, planters started to ignore the expiration of indentured contracts and kept their servants as slaves for life. This was demonstrated by the case Johnson v. Parker where the court ruled that John Casor, an indentured servant, be returned to Johnson who claimed that Casor belonged to him for his life
Slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Abraham Lincoln expressed this idea in one of his famous 1858 debates with Senator Stephen Douglas: “[T]here is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.”
Ten Reasons Not to Abolish Slavery : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

In 1677, Dr.
William Petty declared that savage people were the direct link between Caucasians and the apes. The
chain provided an excellent justification to slavery: savage people, such as Africans, were inferior
and were put on the earth to serve the superior Europeans
(McCaskell, 1).
From your posted definition:
http://pat.tamu.edu/journal/vol-1/thompson.pdf


Now, it's common knowledge attained from every elementary school in this country that the following are staples of American chattel slavery.

The overwhelming race of slave masters were white.
The overwhelming race of overseers were white.
The overwhelming race of runaway slave catchers were white.
The overwhelming belief was that Blacks were morally, intellectually and spiritually inferior to whites.
The overwhelming belief was that the role of Blacks as inferior and therefore naturally fitted to the role as chattel to whites was scientifically and morally correct.

Now a White man wonders if Black people were better off as slaves picking cotton. Are you suggesting that this man is so ignorant that he isn't aware of the ideology and beliefs that allowed slavery to exist in this country??..of course he isn't that ignorant.

Blacks returning to slavery would require that someone knows what's best for them and is better qualified to run their lives, those persons would be White people and that's racist.
Well said reconmark.
Unfortunately no matter how well reasoned, intelligent, well researched and sensible you present your argument ... Excon will just keep saying " no it's not."
Don't mind him ...it's what he does.
 
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