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Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly.....[W:696:1188]

Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

No I don't think cops should use lethal force to collect unpaid traffic tickets, but my hypothetical wasn't that it was if a gang had taken over part of a city and had used the threat of force to prevent police from enforcing the law. OR what if a rancher had a million dollars in unpaid fines and him plus several hundred militia used threat of force to prevent police from enforcing any law.

Personally I think the police would need to reestablish themselves in both cases.
Except in your fairy tale hypothetical, the gangs seized control of a city (and again...if THAT happened, you wouldnt say **** about it and you know it). In the Bundy case...no one even knew the man existed until the fed bungled this situation. But I get it. You think the fed (not the state and locals...they could give half a damn about Bundy) should go wading in and kill anyone that doesnt comply and set things all back in order. Heck...maybe they would let you lead the charge. You should volunteer.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Yes, yes, we know...you would have preferred it turn out like WACO.
:lamo

Except of course...everything I have ever said on the subject quite clearly states that LIKE Waco...they should have handled it differently. Funny how you and people like you rush to embrace the fed actions and their inept creation of this incident (and you even have wiseone over on your side downright frothy at the prospect of actually HAVING a bloodbath to set things to order-make them respect your authoritay!!!) but you keep on with the rhetoric about how its the 'other' people that wanted to see blood.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

:lamo

Except of course...everything I have ever said on the subject quite clearly states that LIKE Waco...they should have handled it differently. Funny how you and people like you rush to embrace the fed actions and their inept creation of this incident (and you even have wiseone over on your side downright frothy at the prospect of actually HAVING a bloodbath to set things to order-make them respect your authoritay!!!) but you keep on with the rhetoric about how its the 'other' people that wanted to see blood.

Of course you would've handled it differently. How, exactly?
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Of course you would've handled it differently. How, exactly?
I just suggested a course of action in# 495 that the BLM uses frequently. That was kicked around by sources such as NPR, CNN and even MSNBC. Hardly right wing or conservative outlets. The consensus among most reasonable people is that this situation could obviously have been handled better and in a multitude of other ways. Why pretend otherwise?
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I don't have all day, Mac. Are you going to tell us how you would've handled the situation, or not?
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Uh....the standoff was over the removal of Bundy's cows on federal land....not debt collection. Some people are thick but you're a mile wide.

That only makes the BLM-ocrats look even MORE idiotic.

They couldn't even accomplish something as simple as herding 300 head off government land and onto Bundy's land without shooting six head, orphaning dozens of calves and recreating Bunker Hill?
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I don't have all day, Mac. Are you going to tell us how you would've handled the situation, or not?
He does not have to, there are after all many many ways it could have been handled. They have been covered quite extensively in the press, both in print as well as TV and radio. As in thousands of discussions and reporting on the story. Are you unable to follow any of it at all, or does it just have to be how VanceMack would himself have done it? Why? What does that matter in any way whatsoever? Because you have personal thing going for him? Or have you chosen to pretend that there was no other course and this has not been well documented and reported on? :shock:
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I don't have all day, Mac. Are you going to tell us how you would've handled the situation, or not?

He et. al. have already explained that the smart thing to do would be to place a lien on Bundy's property. How hard is that to understand?

Surely, you're not suggesting that the BLM-ocrats had a good idea?
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I just suggested a course of action in# 495 that the BLM uses frequently. That was kicked around by sources such as NPR, CNN and even MSNBC. Hardly right wing or conservative outlets. The consensus among most reasonable people is that this situation could obviously have been handled better and in a multitude of other ways. Why pretend otherwise?

Wait until he dies? That's it? Well hell, lets all wait until we die to pay our taxes. :roll:



Are you familiar with John Singer? After he died his son-in-law took up the reigns and bombed an LDS church soon followed by a 13 day standoff. I seriously doubt that Bundy's rather large family would give their land without a similar fight.
 
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Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Of course you would've handled it differently. How, exactly?
Ive listed numerous ways several times. But lets assume for a second you are right and gosh...that was it. They just took their best shot...the ONLY option...and they got ****ed. NOW what?

But...really...you believe THAT was their best and only option? :lamo
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

He et. al. have already explained that the smart thing to do would be to place a lien on Bundy's property. How hard is that to understand?

Surely, you're not suggesting that the BLM-ocrats had a good idea?
I could be wrong but I think only the state can put a lien on someone's property....and that's usually for not paying property taxes...not federal land use fees.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Ive listed numerous ways several times. But lets assume for a second you are right and gosh...that was it. They just took their best shot...the ONLY option...and they got ****ed. NOW what?

But...really...you believe THAT was their best and only option? :lamo

Then please tell me what post # and I'll be happy to look at it.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

He does not have to, there are after all many many ways it could have been handled. They have been covered quite extensively in the press, both in print as well as TV and radio. As in thousands of discussions and reporting on the story. Are you unable to follow any of it at all, or does it just have to be how VanceMack would himself have done it? Why? What does that matter in any way whatsoever? Because you have personal thing going for him? Or have you chosen to pretend that there was no other course and this has not been well documented and reported on? :shock:

I adore your user name. Sorry for going off topic.

And you're right that there were many other and better ways this all could have been handled.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Or at least get their talking points squared away.

The sad thing is they ahve really kinda painted themselves into an ugly little box. In their kneejerk rush to defend all things Obama, they have INSISTED that...well...golly...its been 20 years...and...what other choice did they have OTHER than to escalate this? Can you think of another choice? There WAS no other choice (oh...and I'll add in moots "besides...its REALLY George Bush's fault!").

And the problem is...it DIDNT WORK. The BEST they could think to do...failed. So...well...damn...NOW what? If they do ANYTHING differently well...sonofabitch...turns out there were maybe other alternatives AFTER all...who knew. And if they WORK? well........errrrrrmmmmm....

And the simple fact that THIS is how they endorse problem resolution...well...that certainly explains the embarrassment that is our current foreign policy.

I dont know...maybe another "line in the sand"....

In all fairness, they get their talking points from Daily KOS and there may be a dicimination issue.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I could be wrong but I think only the state can put a lien on someone's property....and that's usually for not paying property taxes...not federal land use fees.
The BLM "could" use liens all the time. And the BLM "could" have been doing it for decades. But then you "could" be right and everyone else wrong. But in fact there is no maybe, you are wrong. Amazingly you have been acting as if you actually knew what you were talking about, before that admission. :doh
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I adore your user name. Sorry for going off topic.

And you're right that there were many other and better ways this all could have been handled.
Can't take credit for it, belongs to Horace Silver!
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

The BLM "could" use liens all the time. And the BLM "could" have been doing it for decades. But then you "could" be right and everyone else wrong. But in fact there is no maybe, you are wrong. Amazingly you have been acting as if you actually knew what you were talking about, before that admission. :doh

Then why didn't they put a lien on his property years ago?
 
re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’[W:696]

If the BLM doesnt have legal authorization as a law enforcement agency/police force, then yes, it's unlawful. Can you show us its authorization?

YES.
Law Enforcement

Law Enforcement

LAW ENFORCEMENT
The BLM fields a force of approximately 200 Law Enforcement Rangers (uniformed officers) and 70 Special Agents (criminal investigators) who enforce a wide range of laws and regulations in the prevention, detection, and investigation of crimes affecting public lands resources. These crimes include mineral resource theft; wilderness area violations; hazardous materials dumping; archaeological and paleontological resource theft and vandalism; cultivation, manufacture, smuggling, and use of illegal drugs; timber, forest product, and native plant theft; off-highway vehicle use; alcohol related crimes; and wildland arson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management
The BLM Office of Law Enforcement & Security, headquartered in Washington, D.C., is a federal law enforcement agency of the U.S. government. All Law Enforcement Rangers and Special Agents receive their training through Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC). Law Enforcement Rangers attend the Land Management Police Training (LMPT) academy at FLTEC, while BLM Special Agents attend the Criminal Investigator Training Program (CITP) at FLETC.[citation needed]
BLM Law Enforcement Rangers and Special Agents make up the law enforcement capability of the BLM. Rangers and Special Agents are located in each of the western states that have BLM lands. Law Enforcement Rangers make up the uniformed high visibility enforcement of laws. Special Agents investigate crimes against property, visitors and employees.[citation needed]
Uniformed Law Enforcement Rangers enforce Federal laws and regulations governing BLM lands and resources. Law Enforcement Rangers also enforce some or all state laws on BLM lands. As part of that mission Law Enforcement Rangers carry firearms, defensive equipment, make arrests, execute search warrants, complete reports and testify in court. They establish a regular and recurring presence on a vast amount of public lands, roads, and recreation sites. The primary focus of their jobs is the protection of natural resources, protection of BLM employees and the protection of visitors. They use K-9s, helicopters, snowmobiles, dirt bikes and boats to perform their duties.[citation needed]
Special Agents are criminal investigators who plan and conduct investigations concerning possible violations of criminal and administrative provisions of the BLM and other statutes under the United States Code. Special agents are normally plain clothes officers who carry concealed firearms, and other defensive equipment, make arrests, carry out complex criminal investigations, present cases for prosecution to U.S. Attorneys, and prepare investigative reports. Criminal investigators occasionally conduct internal and civil claim investigations
 
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re: Cliven Bundy stands by racially charged comments, ‘That’s exactly what I said’[W:696]

I camt prove a negative, but youre welcome to prove that theey have the authority to collect a debt, under arms. Good luck!

The BLM was removing illegal cattle in a area where the owner was not allowed to graze. Not once did the BLM with all those weapons show up at the Bundy's Ranch. The only reason that the Bundy's son got tazed is because he showed up on BLM land.


Im not sure how you got tyhe idea that the BLM was asking for payment when that never happened during a cattle gathering operation. :doh
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

I could be wrong but I think only the state can put a lien on someone's property....and that's usually for not paying property taxes...not federal land use fees.

The Feds can put a lien on his property & freeze his bank accounts.
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

Then why didn't they put a lien on his property years ago?
Why don't you tell me? Or are you still operating as if the BLM can't do this or does not do it all the time? For decades? I actually took 3 seconds to google BLM and lien. Is this something you can't do for yourself? Also, as already stated just two pages back, all they have to do is wait for him to die and then they get EVERYTHING. So again, why pretend otherwise and if you don't know any better, why not educate yourself instead of asking people at a message board that you assure us don't know what they are talking about, to educate you? :shock::confused:
 
Re: Bundy questioned whether blacks were better off as slaves

The BLM "could" use liens all the time. And the BLM "could" have been doing it for decades. But then you "could" be right and everyone else wrong. But in fact there is no maybe, you are wrong. Amazingly you have been acting as if you actually knew what you were talking about, before that admission. :doh

NO. The BLM is an enforcement agency, and has nothing to do with applying liens to property, that is the duty of the federal court system.
 
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