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A fatal wait: Veterans languish and die on a VA hospital's secret list [W:36]

mak2 said:
The same reason I cant probalby, the means test.
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See, that makes no sense. My husband used to drive the VA shuttle, and had to drive all the way to Rome, NY, to pick up a retired police commander from the NY State Troopers. He had a brand new Mercedes, but did not want to drive all the way to Syracuse from Rome, putting miles on his car. He did not retire from the military and was not disabled. He was still able to use the VA hospital in Syracuse for health care.

Makes no sense, but then there's little about the VA that does make sense. :shrug:
 
He was signed up before 1997 or service connected. It is just the government, dont try to make too much sense out of it.
Superfly said:
See, that makes no sense. My husband used to drive the VA shuttle, and had to drive all the way to Rome, NY, to pick up a retired police commander from the NY State Troopers. He had a brand new Mercedes, but did not want to drive all the way to Syracuse from Rome, putting miles on his car. He did not retire from the military and was not disabled. He was still able to use the VA hospital in Syracuse for health care.

Makes no sense, but then there's little about the VA that does make sense. :shrug:
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Everybody pay attention to these posts now. This is what happens when the federal government is in charge of healthcare.
 
In many cities in the US the VA hospital is the best in town.
pogomutt said:
Everybody pay attention to these posts now. This is what happens when the federal government is in charge of healthcare.
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Superfly said:
Why? What is your reason for not being able to get healthcare?

When did you join the Navy?
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I was in from 1989 till 1995 then went back in in 1999 until 2006 and I served in both Gulf Wars. I was told that since I dont have any service connected disabilities, I was not retired from the military, and I make too much money I dont qualify.
 
roguenuke said:
I find it dishonest how some view certain groups trying to coverup things up and claim that this is how exactly the entire program works. Guess what? People in the civilian world can't even get on some lists at all because they can't afford it. They don't have the money to pay for it and they still don't have insurance for any number of reasons. This is an issue but certainly not the norm. I've been under military medicine for a large portion of my life and was able to get many appointments pretty quickly. They even pointed out a problem with my knee when they were checking my leg for why I had pain lower down. And no, this isn't right, but it also isn't something that can be blamed on the system really, but rather on the nature of people and the pressure put on these hospitals to operate seeing more people with less resources and higher expectations that are simply not completely reasonable under the circumstances. It isn't an excuse for this horrible list (those responsible should be fired), but it is a reason why we would see such a thing.

And this would be different if we had an NHC system because vets could easily choose to go to either a VA hospital or a hospital closer because they wouldn't have to worry about not being able to pay for it. And civilian hospitals/doctors face some of these same exact problems, including long wait times and even turning people away.

In cities, the average doctor wait-time is 18.5 days

But also there are many things that occur in the civilian medical system as well that would be similar to this and yet never brought to light like this is here because they are under less scrutiny (far less) than military systems.

How would any of you suggest this change and would that change realistically "save" people? Because if you know of a way to fix it so this doesn't happen but where veterans are still able to receive quality healthcare without completely breaking the federal or state coffers, please tell us all that plan. Perhaps we can push to get that put into place.

No system is immune from human failings and errors, greed or incompetence. Whether it is publicly run or privately.
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Did you miss the part about the, "secret list"? This is a government agency. The government answers to the people. For this, we want answers and someone needs to be punished.
 
mak2 said:
In many cities in the US the VA hospital is the best in town.
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My best friend went to the VA, for an appointment that he waited 39 days for, to get an examination done on his back. When the doctor came in, he asked my friend how his skin rash was doing.

No doubt there are VA success stories, but they're not the norm.
 
The VA has millions of visits a day. That was one.
apdst said:
My best friend went to the VA, for an appointment that he waited 39 days for, to get an examination done on his back. When the doctor came in, he asked my friend how his skin rash was doing.

No doubt there are VA success stories, but they're not the norm.
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apdst said:
Did you miss the part about the, "secret list"? This is a government agency. The government answers to the people. For this, we want answers and someone needs to be punished.
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No. It is a secret list that was made by one particular hospital that happens to be a part of a government agency. Those people responsible for that list are (hopefully) being punished (or have been punished).

And I gave the answers for why things like this happen. Pressure to reach unreasonable goals. It doesn't make it right, but it is the most logical answer for why it would happen.
 
roguenuke said:
No. It is a secret list that was made by one particular hospital that happens to be a part of a government agency. Those people responsible for that list are (hopefully) being punished (or have been punished).

And I gave the answers for why things like this happen. Pressure to reach unreasonable goals. It doesn't make it right, but it is the most logical answer for why it would happen.
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It doesn't change the fact that this is going on and an investigation needs to be launched to find out if this is a local issue, or if any other facilities are doing the same thing.

Making excuses for this kind of behavior isn't the solution.
 
No, but one case that supposedly the doctor asked your buddy the wrong question...no, no you are right. That is all the proof you need, the system sucks. Adpst's buddy said so. How can one carry on a conversation about a system with millions that thinks his buddy's experience, made up or not, is indicative of the function of the system. You just cant. I give.
apdst said:
You think that's the only one? Are you for real?
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mak2 said:
No, but one case that supposedly the doctor asked your buddy the wrong question...no, no you are right. That is all the proof you need, the system sucks. Adpst's buddy said so. How can one carry on a conversation about a system with millions that thinks his buddy's experience, made up or not, is indicative of the function of the system. You just cant. I give.
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The wrong question? Hell, he was seeing the wrong patient! LOL!

Service at the VA is notoriously bad. The OP shows just how bad it can be.
 
apdst said:
It doesn't change the fact that this is going on and an investigation needs to be launched to find out if this is a local issue, or if any other facilities are doing the same thing.

Making excuses for this kind of behavior isn't the solution.
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I'm not making any excuses here. I am giving reasoning for how to (hopefully) reduce the risk of it happening again, if the government actually realized why it happened, rather than simply react to it.

And nowhere have I said this case should not be investigated nor that those responsible should not be held accountable.
 
roguenuke said:
I'm not making any excuses here. I am giving reasoning for how to (hopefully) reduce the risk of it happening again, if the government actually realized why it happened, rather than simply react to it.

And nowhere have I said this case should not be investigated nor that those responsible should not be held accountable.
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That's exactly what you're doing. It's almost as if you're excusing this conduct, altogether.

No one is being punished. The director of the Phoenix VA has been placed on administrative leave, with pay.

This isn't just a local problem, either.

VA treatment records falsified, probe finds
 
apdst said:
That's exactly what you're doing. It's almost as if you're excusing this conduct, altogether.

No one is being punished. The director of the Phoenix VA has been placed on administrative leave, with pay.

This isn't just a local problem, either.

VA treatment records falsified, probe finds
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And that is wrong. They should be punishing those responsible. (Although it is more than possible that they are simply still in the middle of their investigation.) That though has nothing to do with why this occurred. Any time a crime or wrong has been committed, an important part of the investigation should be why it happened in order to help to reduce the chance that it will happen again, especially in situations like this.
 
roguenuke said:
And that is wrong. They should be punishing those responsible. (Although it is more than possible that they are simply still in the middle of their investigation.) That though has nothing to do with why this occurred. Any time a crime or wrong has been committed, an important part of the investigation should be why it happened in order to help to reduce the chance that it will happen again, especially in situations like this.
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The reason this occurred, is because there are crooked bureaucrats running the system; from top to bottom.
 
roguenuke said:
I'm not making any excuses here. I am giving reasoning for how to (hopefully) reduce the risk of it happening again, if the government actually realized why it happened, rather than simply react to it.

And nowhere have I said this case should not be investigated nor that those responsible should not be held accountable.
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The problem is that the VA has been messed up since before I was born. And every single President who has sat in the chair in the Oval Office since I first put on the uniform has promised that they would fix it.

And not one of them ever has. And whenever somebody claims that they can fix it (or anything that the government bones up), I am reminded about the Einstein quote about insanity.
 
apdst said:
The wrong question? Hell, he was seeing the wrong patient! LOL!

Service at the VA is notoriously bad. The OP shows just how bad it can be.
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I had military doctors prep to operate on the wrong foot. I had another military doctor misdiagnose a torn ACL, PCL and MCL with a damaged meniscus as a 'sprain', then get pissed off when I went back in for help. I finally had to con my way into physical therapy to see a different doctor that would actually look at it. Meanwhile the bones were destroyed causing a total knee knee replacement (5 operations later).

The flip side...I have full use of and feeling in my left hand because a military doc meticulously spent hours putting it back together.

My retirement physical was a joke. The doctor had his back to me the whole time and didnt visually observe any of the range of motion exercises. He was a civilian contract doctor. I had to go in to see a doctor at the VA to completely re assess everything.

I dont have to see the VA for my medical care. For most of my med needs we use Triwest prime and a supplemental insurance through the University. I mainly go there to maintain contacts and presence. No telling what tomorrow will bring. My VA Primary Care provider has been fantastic. The surgeons that replaced my knee were also great (though the process to get in was whack. I literally was put under and surgical prepped before they realized they hadnt prepped a recovery room-had to go back a week later). The work done on the plate in my ankle has been less than successful. I will be seeing a private specialist for that.

As for VA horror stories...I think the biggest problem has been with the nursing staff and that mostly due to their status as a training hospital. They have a lot of student nurses and sometimes they are prone to making mistakes (and their supervising nurses dont do a great job of over the shoulder and follow up). Because of one of the student nurses errors when writing down blood levels I was a needle plunge away from being sent into a coma. I had a stroke when they replaced my knee...that was most likely due to the doctors decision to NOT start me on Warfarin in advance and then the surgery took three times as long as they expected (due to the extensive damage).

Overall...the horror stories are a part of the deal. I can tell you that after working on a rapid response crisis team for 6 years with several hospitals, EVERY hospital has the horror stories. Everyone has a story about uncle Joe left in a wheelchair in maintenance closet for 9 hours, or their brother Dave that went in for a VASECTOMY and ended up with a MASTECTOMY...or...you get the drill.

BTW...I JUST got off the phone with the central appts desk at the VA for a follow up THEY insist I have. The next earliest appt is 21 July for my primary care doc and 15 August for the specialist they need me to see.
 
apdst said:
The reason this occurred, is because there are crooked bureaucrats running the system; from top to bottom.
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And judging from your stated political affiliation, you proudly voted for them. Congrats.
 
solletica said:
And judging from your stated political affiliation, you proudly voted for them. Congrats.
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Why are you unable to listen and comprehend what is said?

Bureaucrats are not politicians. They in fact are apolitical, and hold their jobs no matter what politician is in office, and which party has the majority.

You keep trying to sling political darts, and trying to find a political target. This is not political at all, it is simply a broken system. And bureaucrats who got their jobs under Clinton are still chugging away happily in the same jobs as they were over 20 years ago. The Secretary of the VA is a political appointee. The Assistant Junior Undersecretary to the Assistant Advisor on Veteran Bedpan Acquisition and Maintenance however is a bureaucrat, and will continue inspecting bedpans and collect a 6 figure salary doing so because they have union protections and know it is almost impossible to ever fire a government employee.
 
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