SC House votes to cut funding to public university for homosexul literature

Look at my son Johnny! He's so smart. He just graduated from college. Um, no, he can't name the Vice President of the United States. No, he has no idea where Russia is. No, he can't add numbers that have more than 4 digits. No, he has no idea what our Constitution says or who wrote it. But he saw cartoons depicting women having sex with each other in college!

vash1012 said:

This was a girl's memoir about the suicide of her father. Calling it pornographic is insulting.

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From YOUR link in the OP:

The school purchased copies of the graphic novel — which includes cartoons that show two women having sex

Yes, every book I ever read about suicide contained cartoons showing two women having sex.

tres borrachos said:

From YOUR link in the OP:

The school purchased copies of the graphic novel — which includes cartoons that show two women having sex

Yes, every book I ever read about suicide contained cartoons showing two women having sex.

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As the people who own this book have already attested, that statement is very misleading. Besides, a sexual them doesn't make it pornographic. Shakespeare's plays contain sex. James Joyce's novels have sex. Classical sculpture and Renaissance art contain nudity. Portrait photography has nudity. Are those pornographic? Grow up, man. Two pictures in a graphic novel that have a boob in them don't make it porn. Calling it that is just being inflammatory and dismissive of the value of a multiple award winning piece of work that has prompted a play and movie.

Jeez, I hope you never have to go to a gynecologist's office. There's LOTS of porn on those walls with your definition.

vash1012 said:

As the people who own this book have already attested, that statement is very misleading. Besides, a sexual them doesn't make it pornographic. Shakespeare's plays contain sex. James Joyce's novels have sex. Classical sculpture and Renaissance art contain nudity. Portrait photography has nudity. Are those pornographic? Grow up, man. Two pictures in a graphic novel that have a boob in them don't make it porn.

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I'm not a man.

I decide what's pornographic and I decide what's appropriate reading material for my children. You decide for your children. Fair?

"The memoir frankly examines her sexual development, including transcripts from her childhood diary, anecdotes about masturbation, and tales of her first sexual experiences with her girlfriend, Joan".

Yes, just about suicide, right?

I'll dig up this thread the next time someone whines on here about graduating from college and not being able to get a job. Nobody goes to college for the "experience". Once upon a time, when this country was still great, people went to college to learn skills to get good jobs. Cartoons drawn by a woman whose career is being the author of a comic strip called "Dykes to Watch Out For".

Please don't compare a comic strip author to Shakespeare or Joyce. Talk about insulting.

tres borrachos said:

Not while I'm paying, first of all.

I read constantly that today's college graduates complain that they can't find jobs. I also see posts on here and elsewhere that it's everyone's fault that kids' educations suck. Given that - why would ANYONE think this is what kids should be receiving from college in lieu of meaningful things, like say, our Constitution, or a history book, or an economics book. Then I read that there are such college courses as "50 Shades of Grey" and a college course about Pornography and a college course about a woman who finds out her father is gay.

I'm sure the interview for kids who take those kinds of courses would be wonderful. "Well, you got a C- in American History, and a D in American Lit, but I see you aced Pornography. You're exactly the kind of person we want. Welcome to Boeing!".

If this is the type of **** that kids are focusing on in college, it's no wonder that they can't find jobs, and no wonder that most of them think Spiro Agnew is a mousaka. And I call BS on the administrations who think graphic sex cartoons are more important than knowing what happened on Lexington Green.

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First of all I sincerely doubt that the class handing out sexual guides or whatever the hell it is is part of anyone's major. It's almost certainly just some elective liberal arts course. And if it is part of their major then the nudie picture book is the very least of their problems.

Second of all, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but in the end your control over what he's exposed to from here on out is severely reduced, your money or not.

Cardinal said:

First of all I sincerely doubt that the class handing out sexual guides or whatever the hell it is is part of anyone's major. It's almost certainly just some elective liberal arts course. And if it is part of their major then the nudie picture book is the very least of their problems.

Second of all, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but in the end your control over what he's exposed to from here on out is severely reduced, your money or not.

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The OP said it was handed out to all incoming freshmen. You may want to read the OP link if you want to opine.

vash1012 said:

There was a long drawn out period between when blacks were slaves and when they were fully accepted citizens and there were a lot of people saying "Quit complaining. At least you aren't slaves anymore." back then too. The relative level of injustice in a civil rights issue only affects the urgency of its rectification, not its existence.

The point is that the exact same phrases and methods that were used against african americans and women are being used to suppress the discussion of homosexual civil rights issues.

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"Homosexual civil rights" is a fabricated issue designed to get liberals all in a tizzy. Civil unions more than covered the needs of the gay community, outside of things like hospital visitation issues that can be rectified easily enough.

It's insulting to people who have suffered through actual inequities to equate these trumped up gay grandstandings with real issues.

Erod said:

"Homosexual civil rights" is a fabricated issue designed to get liberals all in a tizzy. Civil unions more than covered the needs of the gay community, outside of things like hospital visitation issues that can be rectified easily enough.

It's insulting to people who have suffered through actual inequities to equate these trumped up gay grandstandings with real issues.

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Governments trying to suppress the discussion of homosexual issues in universities is a fabricated issue? Clearly not.

People advocating for preventing homosexual couples from adopting children is a fabricated issue?

The Defense of Marriage Act preventing homosexual couples from attaining benefits that heterosexual couples have is fabricated? (You know, the one that was found unconstitutional like it should have been)

Civil unions may solve some of those problems, but there are still states who are voting to ban even those, preventing homosexual couples from having any access to those issues you mentioned. That isn't fabricated either.

Being call perverts and abominations and a danger to traditional values and all sorts of other things by OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS isn't fabricated either.

This is 10-15% of our population that are still being treated with utter disrespect and contempt in the public setting on a daily basis and have less rights than the rest of us. That is un-American as un-American can be. Individual freedom doesn't stop when you stop liking the thing that people do with that freedom. Every other minority group has had their fight for their rights and it was long and grueling and had people just like you telling them their cause wasn't valid, but every single one of them eventually WON because your position can't hold up to rational thought about how denying things to one group fits into the prescribed purpose of America.

Reviews of the book from Amazon

This autobiography by the author of the long-running strip, Dykes to Watch Out For, deals with her childhood with a closeted gay father, who was an English teacher and proprietor of the local funeral parlor (the former allowed him access to teen boys). Fun Home refers both to the funeral parlor, where he put makeup on the corpses and arranged the flowers, and the family's meticulously restored gothic revival house, filled with gilt and lace, where he liked to imagine himself a 19th-century aristocrat. The art has greater depth and sophistication that Dykes; Bechdel's talent for intimacy and banter gains gravitas when used to describe a family in which a man's secrets make his wife a tired husk and overshadow his daughter's burgeoning womanhood and homosexuality. His court trial over his dealings with a young boy pushes aside the importance of her early teen years. Her coming out is pushed aside by his death, probably a suicide. The recursively told story, which revisits the sites of tragic desperation again and again, hits notes that resemble Jeanette Winterson at her best. Bechdel presents her childhood as a "still life with children" that her father created, and meditates on how prolonged untruth can become its own reality. She's made a story that's quiet, dignified and not easy to put down. (June)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.
From Bookmarks Magazine

That Alison Bechdel kept a childhood journal made Fun Home a perhaps more true-to-life project than it would have been if she'd relied on memory alone. A powerful graphic novel-memoir, Fun Home documents Bechdel's childhood experiences and coming-of-age as a woman and lesbian. At its center lies her heartbreaking relationship with her distant father, which produces emotionally complex and poignant reflections and clean, bitonal images. While detractors cited confusing chronology and repetition of events, literary buffs enjoyed the challenging references to Albert Camus, James Joyce, and classical mythology. In the end, Fun Home "is an engrossing memoir that does the graphic novel format proud" (New York Times).

tres borrachos said:

The OP said it was handed out to all incoming freshmen. You may want to read the OP link if you want to opine.

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Handed out. Wow. As in, not even a part of any curriculum.

I can't believe you're working yourself up over this.

Cardinal said:

Handed out. Wow. As in, not even a part of any curriculum.

I can't believe you're working yourself up over this.

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It was handed out to all students, but was a required reading for one class.

Erod said:

You forgot indoctrination.

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To critical thinking and research and scientific process? yes, absolutely.

vash1012 said:

It was handed out to all students, but was a required reading for one class.

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I don't recall seeing that in the article, buy hey let's assume that's true and tally this up.

1)One elective liberal arts course and therefore not pertinent to anybody's major.
1a)If it is pertinent to anybody's major then maybe it's important, I don't know. I'm guessing Tres borrachos doesn't expect her kids to be in that major anyway.
2) A book handed out to everybody and nobody is required to actually read it.
3)All the students in this story are adults.

I don't know what "much ado about nothing" looks like, but I'm going to guess it looks a lot like this.

Cardinal said:

Handed out. Wow. As in, not even a part of any curriculum.

I can't believe you're working yourself up over this.

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Yes, handed out. I'm actually not worked up over it. I think you're confusing me with the OP who is worked up over it.

Cardinal said:

I don't recall seeing that in the article, buy hey let's assume that's true and tally this up.

1)One elective liberal arts course and therefore not pertinent to anybody's major.
1a)If it is pertinent to anybody's major then maybe it's important, I don't know. I'm guessing Tres borrachos doesn't expect her kids to be in that major anyway.
2) A book handed out to everybody and nobody is required to actually read it.
3)All the students in this story are adults.

I don't know what "much ado about nothing" looks like, but I'm going to guess it looks a lot like this.

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Oh I am not disagreeing with you about that. Just pointing out the facts so we are all on the same page. It was required reading for that one class which is an introductory class, not sure if the class is required and for what majors, and the university declined to allow the students who took exception to the material to read something else. I believe they have a conscientious clause as it pertains to religious reading, but since this isn't religious they didn't feel that an exception was warranted.

I'm the one that is arguing that the State is overreaching by trying to prevent the distribution of this book.

tres borrachos said:

Yes, handed out. I'm actually not worked up over it. I think you're confusing me with the OP who is worked up over it.

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Someone is overreacting. The book was companion to the play. It would be a nice comparison of mediums, with the added controversial content. For college students, this is usually fair game. The expectation is that they are mature enough to handle such material. I'd have more trouble if there was evidence that a free exchange of ideas was hindered. However, as best I can tell, that question wasn't even asked.

Boo Radley said:

Someone is overreacting. The book was companion to the play. It would be a nice comparison of mediums, with the added controversial content. For college students, this is usually fair game. The expectation is that they are mature enough to handle such material. I'd have more trouble if there was evidence that a free exchange of ideas was hindered. However, as best I can tell, that question wasn't even asked.

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That's the beauty of America. We can all decide what's best for our own children.

Again, the issue isn't what you want your kids to be exposed to. That's your prerogative and, later, your kid's prerogative. Its that a government body is cutting funding and trying to oust a board of trustees *specifically* and *only* because the college deals with subjects they don't like even though these are topics that are in the news on a daily basis and very relevant to our time.

tres borrachos said:

That's the beauty of America. We can all decide what's best for our own children.

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Children, not adults. If they're still asking your permission at 18, 19, we might talk about other issues.

vash1012 said:

Again, the issue isn't what you want your kids to be exposed to. That's your prerogative and, later, your kid's prerogative. Its that a government body is cutting funding and trying to oust a board of trustees *specifically* and *only* because the college deals with subjects they don't like even though these are topics that are in the news on a daily basis and very relevant to our time.

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Where the lawmakers went wrong, in my opinion, was stating their objection based on their personal views on gay lifestyles, which, by the way, I don't share. I'm very much pro-gay marriage. I'm pro-anykindof marriage, and believe that people have a right to their bedroom preferences without explanation or apology.

If I were a lawmaker I would object merely because it isn't what I think children should be learning in their first days of college, again for the reasons I outlined. Four years from now most of them will graduate without jobs, and will whine that they can't find jobs, and in all of this, the reason for going to college in the first place has been lost. It's to get skills to find a job, and there is nothing in that book that is skill-teaching.

I would rather see them being given something that is useful, like the Constitution, the Declaration of Independance, the history of our country, a biography on Lincoln, etc.

Just my opinion.

Boo Radley said:

Children, not adults. If they're still asking your permission at 18, 19, we might talk about other issues.

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If I'm paying for my 19 year old's college education, they are still asking my permission. If they are paying for it on their own with their own money, I will have no say in it.

And even when they are in their 50s, I will still refer to them as my children, which is what all 3 of them are, or should I call them something else?

tres borrachos said:

The only thing that the college did that disturbed me in that entire article (which was very long!) was this piece:

The school purchased copies of the graphic novel — which includes cartoons that show two women having sex — for every incoming freshman

I'm sorry, but that bothered me. I don't think the college should be giving that kind of material to incoming freshmen, and no, not because it's depicting gay sex. Sorry, but as the mother of 3, I wouldn't want my kids' college to provide them with graphic novels containing cartoons of heterosexual couples having sex, either. Maybe I'm terribly old fashioned, but this all seemed a bit out of line.

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With all due respect...do you not believe your "children" have not already been exposed via the internet to far more graphic images than a cartoon depicting two women having sex?

What college freshment does not have a device with all sorts of images...graphic included, coming at them hourly?

tres borrachos said:

If I'm paying for my 19 year old's college education, they are still asking my permission. If they are paying for it on their own with their own money, I will have no say in it.

And even when they are in their 50s, I will still refer to them as my children, which is what all 3 of them are, or should I call them something else?

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No. it's his education and not yours. Paying or not. Cut the apron strings, let the student grow up. We're not talking about what you refer to them as, but how you treat them.

1750Texan said:

With all due respect...do you not believe your "children" have not already been exposed via the internet to far more graphic images than a cartoon depicting two women having sex?

What college freshment does not have a device with all sorts of images...graphic included, coming at them hourly?

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Of course they have. My kids all play hockey and travel with their teams, and one of their teammates usually brings along his father's Playboy magazine. They also have all had the required health classes in school where they learned about body parts. No, they don't have internet access at home so none of them see porn in our house.

But what does any of that have to do with what I posted? And why did you put "children" in quotes? I have 3 - all teenagers. And yes, I carried them all in my uterus, so I consider them children, and not puppies.

Boo Radley said:

No. it's his education and not yours. Paying or not. Cut the apron strings, let the student grow up. We're not talking about what you refer to them as, but how you treat them.

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Like I said - the beauty of America is that we can all raise our children as we see fit. With all due respect, I don't take parenting advice from strangers on a message board. You do what works with your children, and my husband and I will do what works with ours. Okay?