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Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations [W:77]

Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

If you think government spending cuts would alone save the US then you are insane. As I said there are many more factors that are holding the US back, and that Canada does not have or has to a less degree.

Take political deadlock. The US has had it for a decade... Canada, while their politics can be fun to watch, it does have the ability to get things done when needed, something the US political establishment sorely lacks.

Or take healthcare. Yes Canada pays higher taxes (not by much on paper), but it also gets a system where the threat of economic doom is all but gone. Not so in the US for large parts of the middle class. Get sick, have the wrong insurance policy and you are screwed. And then there is the overall cost of healthcare... much higher in the US vs Canada, because in the US it is the healthcare industry that sets the prices due to lax regulation, which means the US healthcare provider can run amok price wise.

Fact is Canada has higher taxes, more regulation and so on than the US, but preforms on average better when looking at the middle class. Why is that? Look at the income inequality numbers... that might explain some of it and then look at the lopsided tax system the US has, where the rich have a smaller burden than the middle class.

And then of course there is the whole spending far more than you earn for decades and starting wars that are unfunded.

The section in bold is so very true despite the argument many on the Right have concerning taxes. Yes, it's true that those at the bottom of the income scale pay little to nothing in federal income taxes, but that argument that many of us "in the middle" have put forward for quite some time now is that WE'RE THE ONES BEING SQUEEZED!

It's our labor that continues to get punished and our earning power that continues to get marginalized. Look at it this way:

When a multi-billion dollar company can pay $0.00 in federal income taxes because they've able to use the tax code to their advantage (bought and paid for through their corporate lobbyist) and hedge fund managers can get away with paying a mere 16% in capital gains taxes while much of the working class pays up to 25% of their earnings in federal income taxes (on top of state taxes in come cases), then it is WE who's only contribution to America's prosperity is our labor who is getting the crap end of the stick. It's a shame that so many people on the Right downplay this issue.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

Moderator's Warning:
Cut the name calling and baiting out and stick to the topic. Questions regarding peoples ability to read or belittling references to other posters are not needed to discuss the topic
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

Thank you for that insight; it is always refreshing to find a quote notification with that level of contribution of the furtherance of the topic. I will, of course, be paying particularly close attention to future posts of such wisdom.

You're obviously not a hockey fan.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

Well, about 40 percent of us are pretty exceptional. The other 60 percent are watching American Idol and staring at their smart phones.

So who do you think is going to win?
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

So who do you think is going to win?

Idiocracy has set in. Producers aren't producing kids, and non-producers are ONLY producing kids. That's why socialism is an inevitability.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

Idiocracy has set in. Producers aren't producing kids, and non-producers are ONLY producing kids. That's why socialism is an inevitability.
The non producers are also often aborting their babies and the survivors are going to inferior schools. This allows the wealthy to send their children to the best private schools in order that they become the leaders of tomorrow while those left behind get food stamps and Obamaphones. This is how the system works in many Latin American countries as well.

Government run Socialism destroys the middle class, as we are seeing, but much of the electorate will still insist that more programs be established and 'the rich' pay more. What a losing argument that is!
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

Hey, I am watching Faux right now about this. You know what they are saying to help the US middle class, quit taxing the rich. I am stunned. Per words of Charlie Gasparino it has been going on for 20 years but is it Obama's fault, it aint Bush's economy. It is funny, all Obamahate, all the time.

No, it's Clinton's.

And in case you didn't know, Fox is right leaning. You're shocked that they're critical of Obama?
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

sure do... I dont care what Canada has or doesnt...

we sunk to Canadas level.. next we can drop to Kenya

The rules of Capitalism works... Obama is breaking the known ways to succeed and have upward mobility... he is creating a voting block of poor needing hand outs...that was always his plan..

do you know whats going on?... because I sure do..

It seems to me that we have to rise up to Canada's level if they're the ones that passed us. And they have higher taxes and national health care. These are two policies that republicans seem to think destroy a country but they haven't destroyed Canada.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

It seems to me that we have to rise up to Canada's level if they're the ones that passed us. And they have higher taxes and national health care. These are two policies that republicans seem to think destroy a country but they haven't destroyed Canada.

Higher taxes, yes, but less corruption overall.

Obamacare is NOTHING like Canadian health care... In canada, your taxes pay for the services of doctors, but still pay for the "tools"/"materials". Obamacare well, it's a gong show in comparison.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations


This guy is a trip. He whines about Obama taxing too much and spending too much money and then posts a link to a chart showing the much larger increase in public sector employment under Bush... you know the employment that is paid with TAX DOLLARS. That was likely from Medicare Part D and starting a couple wars. Also, your chart shows PRIVATE sector employment decreasing then stagnant under Bush. Dude, do you even remember what was happening in 2008 when Obama was elected? We were in a massive world wide recession. Your chart reflects the massive increase in unemployment due to that and afterwards the employment rate increased for the private sector faster than anything under Bush. I won't give Obama credit for all of that, but he certainly didn't create the disaster hyperpartisan nutjobs spout on about.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

If they just didnt call themselves fair and balanced, and/or if no one belived them. Fox is not right leaning, it is right right.
No, it's Clinton's.

And in case you didn't know, Fox is right leaning. You're shocked that they're critical of Obama?
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

Canada has substantially higher taxes, a much more socialized healthcare system, and better environmental protections. I don't think you really have any idea what's going on here.

Actually, much of these thoughts are common but somewhat erroneous.

Canada has roughly comparable federal income tax rates for lower-middle income persons...but generally much lower tax rates on higher income persons (this does not include provincial income taxes).
And federal capital gains rates are slightly higher for lower income but overall are comparable - however they are substantially lower at the higher end then U.S. Federal rates...especially on short term investments.

Canadian income tax rates for Individuals - current and previous years

Federal Income Tax Rates for the Year 2014

http://taxes.about.com/od/statetaxes/a/highest-state-income-tax-rates.htm

Capital gains tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And, though Canada does have more 'socialized' healthcare, the average Canadian pays far less per capita. And Americans pay FAR MORE per capita then any other country in the world on health care (IMO, mostly due to the hodge lodge and competitively restrictive U.S. System which seems to be stuck between semi-government/private. Americans seem to get the worst of both worlds, unless they are rich/have 'Cadillac' insurance plans):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_(PPP)_per_capita


And in terms of the environment, Canadian Prime Minister Harper (who has been PM since 2006) has been very anti-environment...going 'backwards' seemingly every chance he gets.

http://www.sierraclub.ca/en/climate...ironment-programs-bad-policy-and-bad-future-g

http://www.one-blue-marble.com/harper-and-climate-change.html
 
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Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

Actually, much of these thoughts are common but somewhat erroneous.

Canada has roughly comparable federal income tax rates for lower-middle income persons...but generally much lower tax rates on higher income persons (this does not include provincial income taxes).
And federal capital gains rates are slightly higher for lower income but overall are comparable - however they are substantially lower at the higher end then U.S. Federal rates...especially on short term investments.

Canadian income tax rates for Individuals - current and previous years

Federal Income Tax Rates for the Year 2014

State Income Tax Rates - Highest Tax Rates for Each State

Capital gains tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And, though Canada does have more 'socialized' healthcare, the average Canadian pays far less per capita. And Americans pay FAR MORE per capita then any other country in the world on health care (IMO, mostly due to the hodge lodge and competitively restrictive U.S. System which seems to be stuck between semi-government/private. Americans seem to get the worst of both worlds, unless they are rich/have 'Cadillac' insurance plans):

List of countries by total health expenditure (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


And in terms of the environment, Canadian Prime Minister Harper (who has been PM since 2006) has been very anti-environment...going 'backwards' seemingly every chance he gets.

Harper government cuts to environment programs bad policy and bad for future generations | Sierra Club Canada

Stephen Harper and Global Warming

So, Canada has lower taxes... if you ignore a lot of them. I wasn't. They actually pay for the things they want their government to buy. Canada's healthcare system is more socialized and is cheaper. That's what socializing healthcare does! It makes it cheaper and more effective. And despite the actions of one prime minister, Canada's environmental policies are generally much better and will bounce back after that PM leaves office. The United States' policies are dominated by people who are trying to pretend that human emitted carbon doesn't work the same way as other carbon.

I don't know what your point is. You basically just said I was wrong, but then repeated my exact points.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

So, Canada has lower taxes... if you ignore a lot of them. I wasn't. They actually pay for the things they want their government to buy. Canada's healthcare system is more socialized and is cheaper. That's what socializing healthcare does! It makes it cheaper and more effective. And despite the actions of one prime minister, Canada's environmental policies are generally much better and will bounce back after that PM leaves office. The United States' policies are dominated by people who are trying to pretend that human emitted carbon doesn't work the same way as other carbon.

I don't know what your point is. You basically just said I was wrong, but then repeated my exact points.

In an ideal situation.... When it gets busy, each major city has their story of people dying in the waiting room after hours waiting.

It is a blended system, with public and private elements, lost a lot because of the brain drain while us doctors were making significantly more money...

Oh and seeing reality, that Kyoto and other protocols are not in the interest of a northern and sparsely populated country?

Even in a worst case of global warming, would just make canada more hospitable. Not going green to their own detriment.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

So, Canada has lower taxes... if you ignore a lot of them. I wasn't. They actually pay for the things they want their government to buy. Canada's healthcare system is more socialized and is cheaper. That's what socializing healthcare does! It makes it cheaper and more effective. And despite the actions of one prime minister, Canada's environmental policies are generally much better and will bounce back after that PM leaves office. The United States' policies are dominated by people who are trying to pretend that human emitted carbon doesn't work the same way as other carbon.

I don't know what your point is. You basically just said I was wrong, but then repeated my exact points.

My point was that you said Canada has 'substantially higher taxes'...which IMO they do not. In fact, the richer you are, the cheaper they are in comparison to America - federally anyway.
I did not disagree that they have more socialistic health care - but your notion that socializng it makes it cheaper I strongly disagree with. And I would like to see your links to unbiased factual proof that socialized medicine is cheaper then a 'purely' for profit healthcare system. Free market almost always makes things cheaper - not more expensive.
And lastly, you said they have better environmental protections. That May or may not be true. But Obama is certainly way better then the Canadian PM on that...and the latter has been in power since '06 - the last election with his first majority. So clearly strong environmental rules are not hugely important to CAnadians right now.

I was just trying to set the record straight - especially about tax rates as that is an old belief that I think I showed was not true (that U.S. taxes were substNtially lower then Canadian ones at a federal level).

I could care less about 'who is right'.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

If they just didnt call themselves fair and balanced, and/or if no one belived them. Fox is not right leaning, it is right right.

I disagree that it is far right. Breitbart is far right; but compared to the far left MSNBC, the left most everyone, and the center left PBS, I'm sure it appears far right to you.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

So, Canada has lower taxes... if you ignore a lot of them. I wasn't. They actually pay for the things they want their government to buy. Canada's healthcare system is more socialized and is cheaper. That's what socializing healthcare does! It makes it cheaper and more effective. And despite the actions of one prime minister, Canada's environmental policies are generally much better and will bounce back after that PM leaves office. The United States' policies are dominated by people who are trying to pretend that human emitted carbon doesn't work the same way as other carbon.

I don't know what your point is. You basically just said I was wrong, but then repeated my exact points.

The claim that its cheaper is fine, but it is not more effective. The cheapness of the Canadian health care system is reflected in other areas, such as quality of care and waiting times. It is a compromise between the two.

One area which has helped is the privatization of some areas of health care, such as the use of MRI's for those who are willing to pay for it. At one time sports teams, the police and politicians would go to the head of the line but now it is accessible to those who are willing to pay. The 'two-tier= system is coming about and it makes a lot of sense.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

The claim that its cheaper is fine, but it is not more effective. The cheapness of the Canadian health care system is reflected in other areas, such as quality of care and waiting times. It is a compromise between the two.

One area which has helped is the privatization of some areas of health care, such as the use of MRI's for those who are willing to pay for it. At one time sports teams, the police and politicians would go to the head of the line but now it is accessible to those who are willing to pay. The 'two-tier= system is coming about and it makes a lot of sense.

As opposed to our single tier system, where the tier is simply out of reach for a lot of people.
 
Re: Canada's Middle Class Richest In Study of Big Nations

As opposed to our single tier system, where the tier is simply out of reach for a lot of people.

Yes, two tier can be more expensive for some but let's not let ideology trump health care.
 
Canada has now overtaken the U.S. to become the nation with the wealthiest middle class according to this Globe article, Canada matched the U.S. in median income in 2010 and we have now surpassed the U.S. This is part due to an almost 20% growth income since 2000 while U.S. only had 0.3%, many Western European countries also saw better growth.

According to the NYT it is: “Because the total bounty produced by the American economy has not been growing substantially faster here in recent decades than in Canada or Western Europe, most American workers are left receiving meagre raises,” the New York Times report says. “Finally, governments in Canada and Western Europe take more aggressive steps to raise the take-home pay of low- and middle-income households by redistributing income.”

I have to say I am not surprised that the American economy stagnated income wise. Sure some individual states have seen growth but overall the U.S. is in the same place it was in 2000. You can't blame one party or president either since both the Republicans and Democrats have had power during that time.

Worth Noting: One of the guys who called the U.S. Housing Bubble says that a large portion of that wealth for the Canadian Middle Class is invested in a housing bubble of their own.
 
Worth Noting: One of the guys who called the U.S. Housing Bubble says that a large portion of that wealth for the Canadian Middle Class is invested in a housing bubble of their own.

Well when the average home price is 700,000$+ in most cities I am not surprised, but we are also aware of it and trying to solve the problem. The way we are solving it, is to repeal all the reforms made by the Conservatives like zero down mortgages. Montreal and Quebec seem to have avoided it rather well though, they may make slightly less than someone in Ontario but at least they can afford a house.
 
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