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Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny

Somerville

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What a freakin' surprise, Cliven Bundy is a liar when he says "My rights are before the BLM even existed,"

Bundy's 'ancestral rights' come under scrutiny

Clark County property records show Cliven Bundy's parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt.

Water rights were transferred too, but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn't start grazing on that land until 1954.

The Bureau of Land Management was created 1946, the same year Cliven was born.

"My rights are before the BLM even existed, but my rights are created by beneficial use. Beneficial use means we created the forage and the water from the time the very first pioneers come here," Bundy said.
 
Clearly forged documents.
 
What a freakin' surprise, Cliven Bundy is a liar when he says "My rights are before the BLM even existed,"

As usual, the idiot with the biggest mouth has the weakest case. While there are ranchers with valid complaints against the BLM, Bundy is not one of them.
 
His rights did exist before the BLM, just like my rights existed before me.
 
What a freakin' surprise, Cliven Bundy is a liar when he says "My rights are before the BLM even existed,"

Ancestral rights are irrelevant.The Bundys do not own the property they were grazing thee cattle at and just because someone's ancestor used a place they do not own does not entitle their descendant to use it.
 
His rights did exist before the BLM, just like my rights existed before me.

You don't have a right to graze on land you don't own.
 
You don't have a right to graze on land you don't own.

When the G lied about the turtles, they lost their sympathy from me.
They would have also gotten a lot farther with a brace of attorneys then armed BLM officers playing SWAT.
 
Ancestral rights are irrelevant.The Bundys do not own the property they were grazing thee cattle at and just because someone's ancestor used a place they do not own does not entitle their descendant to use it.

Funny though, they put Al Capone in prison without a fight. But Cliven Bundy they need to go after with AR15s? Please.
 
When the G lied about the turtles, they lost their sympathy from me.

What part of: "You have no right to graze on land that doesn't belong to you" are you arguing against? Does your lack of sympathy suddenly give you a right to graze on land that doesn't belong to you?

I have no sympathy for my neighbor's economic situation. Do I have a right to sit in his kitchen and eat his food? No.
 
What part of: "You have no right to graze on land that doesn't belong to you" are you arguing against? Does your lack of sympathy suddenly give you a right to graze on land that doesn't belong to you?

I have no sympathy for my neighbor's economic situation. Do I have a right to sit in his kitchen and eat his food? No.

Apples and oranges.
 
Funny though, they put Al Capone in prison without a fight. But Cliven Bundy they need to go after with AR15s? Please.

1.He has been using property that isn't his for twenty years without paying rent.It didn't work when they told him to stop grazing cattle on land he didn't own.Hopefully they do sieze his cattle to pay back fees and penalties.

2.I realize in the minds of anti-2nd amendment trash AR15s are intimidating,but anyone else a AR15 is no more intimidating than any other firearm.If they were using hand guns, shot guns or some other type of firearm the Bundy supporters would have still bitched.

3.I am pretty sure that if anyone else stopped paying rent and refused to leave the property the landlord will show up with armed law enforcement to remove your ass and possibly toss you in jail and you would be lucky if you got back any of your belongings on the property. So the fact the BLM showed up with guns is irrelevant.
 
Apples and oranges.

How so? Bundy stopped paying rent,therefor he lost the privilege he had to use that land. This is no different than someone living in a home or using property they stopped paying rent at.
 
How so? Bundy stopped paying rent,therefor he lost the privilege he had to use that land. This is no different than someone living in a home or using property they stopped paying rent at.

If I raised your rent, based on a lie. How would you react?
 
Apples and oranges.

Hahaha, I'll take your inability to respond as a sign of not having an argument. Again, what part of you not having sympathy for the government gives you the right to graze on land that DOESN'T belong to you? None. I have no sympathy for most people. Do I get to use their possession as I see fit? I have no sympathy for the conservative right wing. Can I graffiti the RNC's headquarters? No. You not having sympathy doesn't really do anything to discredit the facts that:

1. This man is grazing on land that doesn't belong to him.
2. Ignorant self proclaimed constitutionalist bullies like yourself are standing up for him (to stick it to the government) and in doing so are contradicting your own positions on private property.
3. You have no claim to lands that belongs to either the feds or the state.
4. If the state had been managing these lands, HE WOULD STILL BE ILLEGALLY GRAZING ON THESE LANDS.

Standing up for this guy essentially means that you are effectively endorsing the complete discard of property laws. From now on, any party that is barred from using another party's from private property can simply counter with "I have no sympathy for you".
 
If I raised your rent, based on a lie. How would you react?

Rent can be raised based on whatever the owner wants to raise it for. Hell, the owner doesn't even have to rent it to you to begin with. And even if he did tell you a lie in order to raise it, NOTHING GIVES YOU A RIGHT TO SQUAT ON THEIR PROPERTY.
 
If I raised your rent, based on a lie. How would you react?

I'd be mad. But if I further refused to leave, I'd have the sheriff ousting me and my belongings, and if I raised a gun against the sheriff, I'd be in jail or dead.
 
I'd be mad. But if I further refused to leave, I'd have the sheriff ousting me and my belongings, and if I raised a gun against the sheriff, I'd be in jail or dead.

It's fun to watch the regular pro-gun bullies complain that the same tactics used on low income families are being used on ranchers who won't pay to graze on federal lands.
 
If I raised your rent, based on a lie. How would you react?

There are way too many here who don't understand government over-reach (or they flat out support it)

Bundy didn't just wake up one mkrning and decide he wasn't going to pay fees any longer, he was intimidated by that constant noise of what he considered to be tyranny. That noise has only gotten louder for.us all.
 
It's fun to watch the regular pro-gun bullies complain that the same tactics used on low income families are being used on ranchers who won't pay to graze on federal lands.

I've been aware of that from the beginning. I was yelling at Chris Hayes last week when he interviewed some yahoo woman candidate who was at the "winners" rally they gave. She kept saying something akin to, "yeah but when armed police show up and take your cattle, where do we live in Russia? Armed men don't boot people off land," and Chris never once pointed out that it happens all the time in foreclosures and rent evictions. He's usually pretty good at bringing things like that up, and he just totally flaked, imo. I rarely yell at the tv, but I was that day.
 
If I raised your rent, based on a lie. How would you react?
I would move. It doesn't matter why the landlord raised the rent.It is the landlord's right to raise rent.
 
There are way too many here who don't understand government over-reach (or they flat out support it)

Bundy didn't just wake up one mkrning and decide he wasn't going to pay fees any longer, he was intimidated by that constant noise of what he considered to be tyranny. That noise has only gotten louder for.us all.

Do you have a right to graze on land that doesn't belong to you?
 
It's fun to watch the regular pro-gun bullies complain that the same tactics used on low income families are being used on ranchers who won't pay to graze on federal lands.
What does pro gun have to do with it. Or I guess we are just going to move the goal posts all over the board. Typical.
 
1.He has been using property that isn't his for twenty years without paying rent.It didn't work when they told him to stop grazing cattle on land he didn't own.Hopefully they do sieze his cattle to pay back fees and penalties.

2.I realize in the minds of anti-2nd amendment trash AR15s are intimidating,but anyone else a AR15 is no more intimidating than any other firearm.If they were using hand guns, shot guns or some other type of firearm the Bundy supporters would have still bitched.

3.I am pretty sure that if anyone else stopped paying rent and refused to leave the property the landlord will show up with armed law enforcement to remove your ass and possibly toss you in jail and you would be lucky if you got back any of your belongings on the property. So the fact the BLM showed up with guns is irrelevant.

Add to that, contempt of court. If you or I decided we were not going to obey a court order, we would be arrested and jailed. That'll probably be round two when the government returns.
 
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