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High Court Upholds Michigan Affirmative Action Ban

jmotivator

jmotivator

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High court upholds Mich. affirmative action ban | The Detroit News

"The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld Michigan’s ban on using race as a factor in college admissions.

The justices said in a 6-2 ruling that Michigan voters had the right to change their state constitution in 2006 to prohibit public colleges and universities from taking account of race in admissions decisions. The justices said a lower federal court was wrong to set aside the change as discriminatory."

Students of all races can now know that they got in to Michigan schools on their merit.
 
Let us hope that this is simply one step in getting rid OF ALL PREFERENCES in college admissions. And I do mean ALL. If we want to admit the most qualified based on HS GPA and some test scores like the SAT's - then lets use those and let in the best and deny admission to anybody else not making that standard of admission.

How many here would support that?
 
haymarket said:
Let us hope that this is simply one step in getting rid OF ALL PREFERENCES in college admissions. And I do mean ALL. If we want to admit the most qualified based on HS GPA and some test scores like the SAT's - then lets use those and let in the best and deny admission to anybody else not making that standard of admission.

How many here would support that?
Click to expand...

I would. Make blind based on performance. That would interesting to see.
 
jmotivator said:
High court upholds Mich. affirmative action ban | The Detroit News

"The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld Michigan’s ban on using race as a factor in college admissions.

The justices said in a 6-2 ruling that Michigan voters had the right to change their state constitution in 2006 to prohibit public colleges and universities from taking account of race in admissions decisions. The justices said a lower federal court was wrong to set aside the change as discriminatory."

Students of all races can now know that they got in to Michigan schools on their merit.
Click to expand...

Very interesting!
 
PirateMk1 said:
I would. Make blind based on performance. That would interesting to see.
Click to expand...

The key here is ALL admissions based only on academic merit. In the past, some people who have a particular grudge against race based admissions find elaborate ways to excuse or justify other type of preferences. If academic merit is going to be the sole ticket in - lets stick to that for everyone at all colleges.
 
I believe that in order for society to progress, race-blindness needs to be introduced not only in the University/College system, but also public employment, private employment, and all other facets. The company I work for currently receives preferences when we bid for work because we are woman owned. Such things are ridiculous and I feel only serve to deepen the divide between the races and sexes.
 
haymarket said:
Let us hope that this is simply one step in getting rid OF ALL PREFERENCES in college admissions. And I do mean ALL. If we want to admit the most qualified based on HS GPA and some test scores like the SAT's - then lets use those and let in the best and deny admission to anybody else not making that standard of admission.

How many here would support that?
Click to expand...

I'm good with that. I got into and graduated from U of M on academic merit.

I know what you're attempting though. There should be more credence given to someone who was class treasurer or science award winner than just being black.

Look at what someone does instead of what they are. Even someone like you can understand that.
 
We would first need to find a way to ensure that all students, in every classroom, have the same learning opportunities before they go to college.

haymarket said:
Let us hope that this is simply one step in getting rid OF ALL PREFERENCES in college admissions. And I do mean ALL. If we want to admit the most qualified based on HS GPA and some test scores like the SAT's - then lets use those and let in the best and deny admission to anybody else not making that standard of admission.

How many here would support that?
Click to expand...
 
haymarket said:
The key here is ALL admissions based only on academic merit. In the past, some people who have a particular grudge against race based admissions find elaborate ways to excuse or justify other type of preferences. If academic merit is going to be the sole ticket in - lets stick to that for everyone at all colleges.
Click to expand...

And? The only caveat I would foresee is private institution making admissions as they see fit, which is their right to be honest.
 
jmotivator said:
High court upholds Mich. affirmative action ban | The Detroit News

"The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld Michigan’s ban on using race as a factor in college admissions.

The justices said in a 6-2 ruling that Michigan voters had the right to change their state constitution in 2006 to prohibit public colleges and universities from taking account of race in admissions decisions. The justices said a lower federal court was wrong to set aside the change as discriminatory."

Students of all races can now know that they got in to Michigan schools on their merit.
Click to expand...

Now we'll just have to assume that white people got in only because they were white.

Goes both ways.
 
Gipper said:
I'm good with that. I got into and graduated from U of M on academic merit.

I know what you're attempting though. There should be more credence given to someone who was class treasurer or science award winner than just being black.

Look at what someone does instead of what they are. Even someone like you can understand that.
Click to expand...

Actually I would take this much farther than many. For example, the purpose of a college or university is academics. And if we make HS GPA and SAT's the way to get in - lets stick to that. How man athletes who play basketball or football at Michigan or other elite schools would get in by only an academic standard? How many sports lovers would dare walk down that path?
 
haymarket said:
Actually I would take this much farther than many. For example, the purpose of a college or university is academics. And if we make HS GPA and SAT's the way to get in - lets stick to that. How man athletes who play basketball or football at Michigan or other elite schools would get in by only an academic standard? How many sports lovers would dare walk down that path?
Click to expand...

But there is a difference in that example. There is no government regulation dictating to them what athletes they must take. The example of athletics involves alumni support, town support, and the universities using their own discretion based on what's going to be good for them.
 
tres borrachos said:
But there is a difference in that example. There is no government regulation dictating to them what athletes they must take. The example of athletics involves alumni support, town support, and the universities using their own discretion based on what's going to be good for them.
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Yes - all those things help support bigtime athletic programs. And at the same time there seems little doubt that some college athletes would never get into those schools on purely academics. Is that not a form of preference?
 
haymarket said:
Yes - all those things help support bigtime athletic programs. And at the same time there seems little doubt that some college athletes would never get into those schools on purely academics. Is that not a form of preference?
Click to expand...

It's a form of preference that isn't mandated by the government. Many of the college athletes couldn't think their way out of the bathrooms without assistance, but they are there to serve a purpose, which isn't necessarily bringing the average SAT scores of the incoming freshman class up.;)
 
It took a judicial panel to decide that "that Michigan voters had the right to change their state constitution" to prohibit discrimination. Why did the 2 judges decide that Michigan voters didn't have the right to end this discrimination?
 
jmotivator said:
High court upholds Mich. affirmative action ban | The Detroit News

"The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld Michigan’s ban on using race as a factor in college admissions.

The justices said in a 6-2 ruling that Michigan voters had the right to change their state constitution in 2006 to prohibit public colleges and universities from taking account of race in admissions decisions. The justices said a lower federal court was wrong to set aside the change as discriminatory."

Students of all races can now know that they got in to Michigan schools on their merit.
Click to expand...

You mean to say that they have to judge prospective students on the content of their character, and not the color of their skin? What a novel idea!

But, wasn't there a famous civil rights leader who suggested just such an idea a long time ago?
 
Cardinal said:
Now we'll just have to assume that white people got in only because they were white.

Goes both ways.
Click to expand...


Well, no. They will be admitted on merit as well.

The SCOTUS ruling was to end the racial discrimination. If highly qualified black kids get denied while lower qualified white kids get in then that is discrimination and they can sue the school if they want. All the SCOTUS did was end institutionalized racial discrimination.
 
haymarket said:
Let us hope that this is simply one step in getting rid OF ALL PREFERENCES in college admissions. And I do mean ALL. If we want to admit the most qualified based on HS GPA and some test scores like the SAT's - then lets use those and let in the best and deny admission to anybody else not making that standard of admission.

How many here would support that?
Click to expand...

public schools true

so I guess Michigan shouldn't let in a dullard who can throw a football like Tom Brady or hit a turnaround Jump shot like one of the "Fab Five"?
 
haymarket said:
The key here is ALL admissions based only on academic merit. In the past, some people who have a particular grudge against race based admissions find elaborate ways to excuse or justify other type of preferences. If academic merit is going to be the sole ticket in - lets stick to that for everyone at all colleges.
Click to expand...

well where you miss the point is that title VII makes racial discrimination wrong

but employers can discriminate on other reasons-like personal appearance for example

there is a mantra EEO officers say

You can hire/fire someone for a good reason
a bad reason
or NO REASON at all as long as its not an ILLEGAL reason (race, creed, gender, age, color, or handicap)

schools should be similar
 
tres borrachos said:
It's a form of preference that isn't mandated by the government. Many of the college athletes couldn't think their way out of the bathrooms without assistance, but they are there to serve a purpose, which isn't necessarily bringing the average SAT scores of the incoming freshman class up.;)
Click to expand...

Yes - your point about government is a true one. However, if we are going to have a society based on meritocracy, should we not at least try to foster merit in all aspects of college admissions regardless if those preferences come from government or alumni or those who run the place?

Your point about the purpose of athletes is undeniable. But those same school would still field football teams and basketball teams if they simply had to recruit among the admitted student body. Those of greater athletic ability but lesser academic ability would inevitably find their way to lesser schools where academically they would be a far better fit and they could play there. Is the purpose of elite schools to field a great football team or is it to educate the student body?
 
TurtleDude said:
well where you miss the point is that title VII makes racial discrimination wrong

but employers can discriminate on other reasons-like personal appearance for example

there is a mantra EEO officers say

You can hire/fire someone for a good reason
a bad reason
or NO REASON at all as long as its not an ILLEGAL reason (race, creed, gender, age, color, or handicap)

schools should be similar
Click to expand...

Turtle - if you condemn preferences based on race do you extend that condemnation to supporting preferences based on legacy or financial considerations?
 
TurtleDude said:
public schools true

so I guess Michigan shouldn't let in a dullard who can throw a football like Tom Brady or hit a turnaround Jump shot like one of the "Fab Five"?
Click to expand...

They shouldn't no, but show business does pay.
 
TurtleDude said:
public schools true

so I guess Michigan shouldn't let in a dullard who can throw a football like Tom Brady or hit a turnaround Jump shot like one of the "Fab Five"?
Click to expand...

If one truly believes in the principle of ADMITTING ONLY THE BEST ACADEMICALLY QUALFIED - then one should apply that principle to ALL colleges and universities regardless of their funding source.

Or does one believe that principles are only for the common folk and not for the rich upper class who can buy their way around them?

And yes indeed - I would strongly support not having a jump shot or passing ability determine if you get in to U of M. And every other school in the land as well.
 
haymarket said:
If one truly believes in the principle of ADMITTING ONLY THE BEST ACADEMICALLY QUALFIED - then one should apply that principle to ALL colleges and universities regardless of their funding source.

Or does one believe that principles are only for the common folk and not for the rich upper class who can buy their way around them?

And yes indeed - I would strongly support not having a jump shot or passing ability determine if you get in to U of M. And every other school in the land as well.
Click to expand...

Why is it that when some people find something they think is a good thing their very next act is to demand that thing be mandatory for everyone else?
 
jmotivator said:
Why is it that when some people find something they think is a good thing there very next act is to demand that thing be forced on everyone else?
Click to expand...

Human nature is that we are all selfish at the core.
 
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