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Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’[W:254:298:850,989]

Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

StringBean said:
Remind me what law Koresh was violating?
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For starters,

In May 1992, Chief Deputy Daniel Weyenberg of the McLennan County Sheriff's Department called the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) to notify them that his office had been contacted by a local UPS representative. A UPS driver described a package that had broken open on delivery to the Branch Davidian residence, revealing firearms, inert grenade casings, and black powder. On June 9, a formal investigation was opened and a week later it was classified as sensitive, "thereby calling for a high degree of oversight" from both Houston and headquarters.[20][21] The documentary Inside Waco claims that the investigation started when in 1992 the ATF became concerned over reports of automatic gunfire coming from the Carmel compound
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Waco siege - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Goshin said:
Bundy's family had grazed cattle there for three generations (theory of mixing one's labor with the land = ownership). They'd never paid the Fedgov for it. They DID pay the State of Nevada.

This involves a land-grab from a couple decades ago where Fed control of public land was dramatically expanded... it has long been a sore point among many.

Ok so he isn't poor... only poor people deserve compassion when the government sends in puppy-stomping jackboot thugs?
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So what? He's entitled to squatter's rights?
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

American said:
Well that proves you right, they arrest one person out of hundreds. You statists are so predictable.
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He was arrested for a reason, you rightists are all alike with your false arrest horse hockey.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

AJiveMan said:
He was arrested for a reason, you rightists are all alike with your false arrest horse hockey.
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You probably drenched yourself when you found out he got arrested.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

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Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

beefheart said:
Baloney. Stop the chest beating hyperbole. This is nowhere near anything comparable to the revolutionary war. Put your bullet back in your pocket, the kooks are not going to snipe at Federal agents without overwhelming force counterattacking and turning them into daisy propellant.
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How is it not? the founding fathers objected very much the same thing.

calling people domestic terrorists because they stand up to the government is the lowest form of speech but something i expect from harry reid. This country was formed by standing up against the government. the government works for US not themselves.

those soldiers out there basically were ready to shoot at their employer. the people that put that force on the ground should be held accountable and fired for terrorizing their boss.
that is what people have forgotten. the government works for US not the other way around.

Not to mention those government thugs destroyed private property and caused death to his liveyhood all of which they are repsonsible for and they owe damages.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

AJiveMan said:
So what? He's entitled to squatter's rights?
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technically yes since you can lose your home to a squatter and it only takes a few months if that.
he has a case for the same reasoning the government is suspect to the same laws that we are. the government is not above the law.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

ludin said:
technically yes since you can lose your home to a squatter and it only takes a few months if that.
he has a case for the same reasoning the government is suspect to the same laws that we are. the government is not above the law.
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Bundy must believe he's entitled, sounds very liberal to me.

While government is not above the law, let's say I'm a rancher and my cattle graze on government owned land, and I pay my fees on a timely basis.

The government then tells me, hey Jiveman, we're not going to let you graze your cattle in this certain area anymore because of environmental or wildlife issues.

A. I should agree and go on about my business of making sure my cattle are on the range where they're supposed to be.

B. I should ignore the government and just do what I damed well please because my family's been using this range forever.

What would be the most logical, ethical and lawful thing to do?
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

StringBean said:
Remind me what law Koresh was violating?
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While the standoff in Waco was a disaster in the end, I don't understand why you would defend David Koresh. As to the laws he violated: Child Abuse laws, Child Molestation, and Statutory Rape to name a few.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

ChezC3 said:
I knew you'd double down, having guns isn't armed resistance having guns and USING them is. Nevada is an open carry State. Meaning you can openly carry a firearm and do a variety of tasks, such as, oh, I don't know, protest the heavy handedness of the Federal Government? Savvy? Did you notice 2 of them examples there were murdered and one was ignored after the novelty wore off...

but those were great examples really, you changed my entire outlook...:roll:
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So if I walk into a gas station while carrying a shotgun and tell the clerk to give me all the money in the cash register its not armed robbery so long as I don't actually fire the shotgun???

Of course its not quite the same, in Bundy's case he didn't just steal a couple of hundred dollars out of a cash register, he grazed his cows on taxpayer land for decades, did not pay the relevant fees for 20 years, lost every court battle, and then in the end had a bunch of people show up armed to the teeth to ensure he did not pay the million dollars he now owes.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

If a local miner shows up and wants to strip mine Yellowstone, should a bunch of local armed militia types show up to defend his ability to do so? It's federal public land so what is the difference?
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

ludin said:
How is it not? the founding fathers objected very much the same thing.

calling people domestic terrorists because they stand up to the government is the lowest form of speech but something i expect from harry reid. This country was formed by standing up against the government. the government works for US not themselves.

those soldiers out there basically were ready to shoot at their employer. the people that put that force on the ground should be held accountable and fired for terrorizing their boss.
that is what people have forgotten. the government works for US not the other way around.

Not to mention those government thugs destroyed private property and caused death to his liveyhood all of which they are repsonsible for and they owe damages.
Click to expand...

Ignorant nuts, looking for some glory by thinking they are standing up to oppression when they have no idea what the issues are and hoping to inflict pain on government agents because of their anti-government ideology are in fact terrorists. They are not standing up for a principle, they are looking for a fight.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Just for some perspective:

There are 300 million acres of public land open to grazing. The government spends about 144 million dollars a year managing those lands for grazing. The government collects about 21 million dollars a year in grazing fees. So the taxpayers subsidize 120 million dollars or more a year for ranchers grazing cattle on public land. Yet this guy still would not pay his bills. As a taxpayer you ought to be pissed off at the fact that despite heavily subsidizing grazing for ranchers on public lands, he still would not pay for the use of those lands.

Grazing cattle has an impact on lands, in particular any riparian areas that have to be managed and restored due to grazing in order to maintain water quality. Grazing sheep has a huge impact because they bring in diseases that decimate Bighorn Sheep which then have to be monitored and in many cases moved by the fish and wildlife service. This stuff isn't free, and this guy is just a freeloader with a bunch of armed nuts willing to back him up.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

SouthernDemocrat said:
So if I walk into a gas station while carrying a shotgun and tell the clerk to give me all the money in the cash register its not armed robbery so long as I don't actually fire the shotgun???

Of course its not quite the same, in Bundy's case he didn't just steal a couple of hundred dollars out of a cash register, he grazed his cows on taxpayer land for decades, did not pay the relevant fees for 20 years, lost every court battle, and then in the end had a bunch of people show up armed to the teeth to ensure he did not pay the million dollars he now owes.
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It's not only "not quite the same", it isn't even close to being the same.

You're comparing an illegal act (robbery) with the right to carry a gun, which isn't illegal.

Bundy's "crime" is a civil crime. Armed robbery is a very serious offense. I'm really surprised you don't know the difference.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Sababa said:
Ignorant nuts, looking for some glory by thinking they are standing up to oppression when they have no idea what the issues are and hoping to inflict pain on government agents because of their anti-government ideology are in fact terrorists. They are not standing up for a principle, they are looking for a fight.
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Do you have proof to back this up, or is this merely your opinion?
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Sean.McDonnell said:
they had guns no? For some reason I don't remember MLK, Gandhi, or Occupy using weapons to intimidate officials
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If your user panel is right, you live in Arizona - a very gun friendly state, so there are lots of people carrying. Do you believe everyone who is carrying a gun is doing so to intimidate someone?
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Sababa said:
Ignorant nuts, looking for some glory by thinking they are standing up to oppression when they have no idea what the issues are and hoping to inflict pain on government agents because of their anti-government ideology are in fact terrorists. They are not standing up for a principle, they are looking for a fight.
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proof or evidence but i expect this from a liberal.
again you would have looked down on the founding fathers for standing up to the british.

no they are not terrorists. they are american people standing up to their government that is not terrorism. if you think it is then you have no clue what terrorism is.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

tres borrachos said:
It's not only "not quite the same", it isn't even close to being the same.

You're comparing an illegal act (robbery) with the right to carry a gun, which isn't illegal.

Bundy's "crime" is a civil crime. Armed robbery is a very serious offense. I'm really surprised you don't know the difference.
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Inviting an armed posse to your land to avoid paying millions in fines by threat of force is a serious crime.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

tres borrachos said:
It's not only "not quite the same", it isn't even close to being the same.

You're comparing an illegal act (robbery) with the right to carry a gun, which isn't illegal.

Bundy's "crime" is a civil crime. Armed robbery is a very serious offense. I'm really surprised you don't know the difference.
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Anytime you engage in armed resistance to the enforcement of a judgement in a civil matter, its no longer a civil matter.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

Deuce said:
Inviting an armed posse to your land to avoid paying millions in fines by threat of force is a serious crime.
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What is the specific law that prohibits inviting posses onto your land? Please cite it.
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

SouthernDemocrat said:
Anytime you engage in armed resistance to the enforcement of a judgement in a civil matter, its no longer a civil matter.
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Please cite the law that affirms this. Is it Federal? State?
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

APACHERAT said:
Here on the Left Coast all of the stores in the black communities are owned by Koreans. "African-Americans" are more likely to loot and then burn the stores.

In 1992 the LAPD didn't do jack ****.
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Boy did you miss the point!!! :doh:shock::roll:
 
Re: Reid calls Bundy supporters ‘domestic terrorists’

tres borrachos said:
Please cite the law that affirms this. Is it Federal? State?
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That would be criminal contempt of court for starters: Criminal Contempt of Court - FindLaw

The feds were enforcing a court order / judgement. I think the way the feds went about it was over the top to say the least, but armed resistance to the enforcement of a court order is a criminal act regardless of the jurisdiction.
 
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