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Putin tells Edward Snowden: Russia doesn't carry out mass surveillance [W:31]

Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Erod said:
You conveniently leave out that much of what he revealed was global intelligence processes that are directly involved with national security. It's not just home-based information he revealed.

What libertarians don't understand is that, while your ideology sounds really nice in some ways, your country would last a nanosecond in this evil world. Some government is unfortunately quite necessary.

As a conservative, I can support some of what he did, but not when he runs to China and Russia, and no doubt, undoes years of intelligence work on America's part. I have no doubt that this, in conjunction with a U.S. president whom Putin finds laughable, is largely the reason Putin is so bold and unafraid right now as he Hitlers along in the Eastern bloc.
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First, I'm a libertarian however I'm not an "isolationist", second - I think every superpower in the world knows we're spying on them too, as a matter of fact they probably already had the information Snowden exposed given the fact they thought so little of the information that they allowed Snowden access to it. And third none of this changes the simple FACT that our government is acting in tyrannical fashion against US citizens.

You do realize those who give up liberty for security deserve neither right?
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

I'm tired of people pretending that our government is benevolent - even to US citizens when our government is anything but.

If I could brand our government with a personality trait our government would be a psychopath.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Mr.Nick said:
I'm tired of people pretending that our government is benevolent - even to US citizens when our government is anything but.

If I could brand our government with a personality trait our government would be a psychopath.
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You're not gonna rent a truck and buy some fertilizer, are you?
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

ecofarm said:
You're not gonna rent a truck and buy some fertilizer, are you?
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I'm not an aggressor like our fascist government.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Mr.Nick said:
The man could walk down the streets of "any city USA" and he wouldn't even be recognized.... That is why if I were in his shoes I would have just jumped the boarder like the illegal aliens do....

The guy is not famous, he may be "famous" amongst those who actually follow politics or currant events, and our government certainly wants to murder him...
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Wow, you really love Snowden, don't you?
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Moderator's Warning:
OK folks. The personal comments need to stop. The thread is heading down hill, so please focus on the topic, not each other.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot? [W:31]

Ben K. said:
Putin tells Edward Snowden: Russia doesn't carry out mass surveillance | World news | theguardian.com

Wow, any claims of idealism this guy had went kaput when he allowed himself to be used like this. Or he's just extremely simple.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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Do you really think the Kremlin would have allowed Snowden to phrase the question how he wanted to? You think they would let him get away with openly criticizing the Russian govt?

He is attacked for not criticizing the Russian government. When he finally makes an attempt (though through only a sanitized Q&A) he gets criticized for that, too.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I guess.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Ben K. said:
He's allowing himself to be used for propaganda purposes by asking that question on Russian TV as if he was going to get an honest response.
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What makes you think he expected an honest response from Putin?
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Beaudreaux said:
I hate the programs he exposed, but this douche put you, me and my family at risk. And for that, I'll never forgive him.
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This makes no sense. You hate the programs, yet you think by exposing the programs that makes us vulnerable? Tell us how you really feel about the NSA spy program. And how has Snowden directly hurt your family?
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot? [W:31]

Ben K. said:
Putin tells Edward Snowden: Russia doesn't carry out mass surveillance | World news | theguardian.com

Wow, any claims of idealism this guy had went kaput when he allowed himself to be used like this. Or he's just extremely simple.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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IMO, there was probably nothing idealistic about Mr. Snowden. He was disenchanted with the U.S., and that disenchantment led to his becoming a free agent opportunist. He almost certainly gave all of his information to both China and Russia.

Russia has exploited his naivete, as well, in granting him asylum under terms that can only fall in its favor. He received a year's asylum. Russia can extend that asylum but has not guaranteed to do so. Under those terms, Mr. Snowden has an incentive to remain useful to Moscow. His appearance was very likely part of the role he now plays in order to hang onto his asylum. Contrary to what some of his supporters claim, there was nothing courageous about his offering President Putin a slam-dunk question that the Russian President could only use to try to differentiate Russia from the U.S.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Mr.Nick said:
Exposing and confirming that our government is committing treason is NOT treason.
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Especially when he had no legal avenue to turn to. There are no whistleblower protections for someone in his position. He did the best he could to expose an illegal program.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Erod said:
You conveniently leave out that much of what he revealed was global intelligence processes that are directly involved with national security. It's not just home-based information he revealed.
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He was selective in what he exposed. Sure, some of it was global intelligence. Do you really think our Merkel spying put the average American at risk?

What libertarians don't understand is that, while your ideology sounds really nice in some ways, your country would last a nanosecond in this evil world. Some government is unfortunately quite necessary.
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It is overzealous government that make this a dangerous world.

As a conservative, I can support some of what he did, but not when he runs to China and Russia,
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He did not want to end up in China and Russia. If you remember, he wanted to go to either Iceland or Ecuador. He is stuck. That does not mean he loves the place where he's stuck.

and no doubt, undoes years of intelligence work on America's part.
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If the program was illegal then all its intelligence should be trashed... just as illegally-obtained evidence should not be admissable in the courtroom.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Geoist said:
This makes no sense. You hate the programs, yet you think by exposing the programs that makes us vulnerable? Tell us how you really feel about the NSA spy program. And how has Snowden directly hurt your family?
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It should make sense if you realize that the program of domestic spying (the one that seems to only get talked about and the one I don't like) is not the only program or secrets that this guy exposed to the world.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Like anyone believes the world's most famous authoritarian spy on the subject of secret surveillance :lamo
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Deuce said:
Like anyone believes the world's most famous authoritarian spy on the subject of secret surveillance :lamo
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What stolen NSA information did he provide that's was untrue?
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Erod said:
You conveniently leave out that much of what he revealed was global intelligence processes that are directly involved with national security. It's not just home-based information he revealed.

What libertarians don't understand is that, while your ideology sounds really nice in some ways, your country would last a nanosecond in this evil world. Some government is unfortunately quite necessary.

As a conservative, I can support some of what he did, but not when he runs to China and Russia, and no doubt, undoes years of intelligence work on America's part. I have no doubt that this, in conjunction with a U.S. president whom Putin finds laughable, is largely the reason Putin is so bold and unafraid right now as he Hitlers along in the Eastern bloc.
Click to expand...

Libertopia would be a part of the evil in the world.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Deuce said:
Like anyone believes the world's most famous authoritarian spy on the subject of secret surveillance :lamo
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I believe him to a point only because I have spent quite a bit of time in Russia.

I went there for the first time kind of half expecting a bunch of guys resembling Mr. Smith from the Matrix to be watching my every move. Turns out that it was just the opposite. It much closer resembles the wild west. You literally have the feeling that there are no rules at all. The reason for this is they simply don't have the money to spend on law enforcement that we do. All of those spying programs that our government takes part in cost money. LOTS of money. Russia simply doesn't have it.

This isn't to say that Russia doesn't have a very sophisticated intelligence gathering(aka SPY) network. It just isn't on the META data gathering scale that ours is.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

pinqy said:
Well, he mostly had no avenue because he didn't discover or reveal anything illegal.
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I disagree. But that is because I believe the Constitution is (or should be) the current law of the land.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Beaudreaux said:
It should make sense if you realize that the program of domestic spying (the one that seems to only get talked about and the one I don't like) is not the only program or secrets that this guy exposed to the world.
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No need to be obscure. What secret did he reveal that put our families at jeopardy?
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Deuce said:
Libertopia would be a part of the evil in the world.
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Letting people live their lives in peace and cooperation is not evil.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Geoist said:
I disagree. But that is because I believe the Constitution is (or should be) the current law of the land.
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So do I. But I am not convinced any of the programs are unconstitutional. Obviously others disagree, and that's fine. But given the current laws, it has not been found that the NSA has been intentionally violating them, and unintentional violations have been reported. It's not like pre-Church Commission activities like Project Shamrock which was clearly illegal.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Pull the other one.
 
Re: Edward Snowden - Useful Idiot?u

Beaudreaux said:
Credibility? The guy first went to China, the most egregious violator of individual rights, freedom and privacy (well, second to North Korea) then he went straight to Russia, arguably the greatest and most productive spy industry in the world (just look at any of their technology, next to a picture of the US version that came first), that is run by a former spy (KGB) Colonel. And gave them everything he had - even if they just took it without his knowledge. Credibility?

I'm glad that we now know about "metadata gathering" and "domestic surveillance" but to say he went about it the wrong way is an understatement.
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The way I see it is that either Snowden is naive as well hypocritical for going to China & Russia or he is smart as well hypocritical for going to places U.S. assets could not rendition him without setting off an international crisis not worthy of risking.
 
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