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Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat[W:208]

Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Range fees are currently $1.37 per month. Mine are actually $1.35 but different regions have different rates. Mine have been has high as $1.66 but I've only been in charge of mine (for our family) since 2009. My dad managed them from back in the 90's. Yes we are talking $1.37 cents per head per month. A farmer with 900 permits / head of cattle would be paying $1,233 per month. I dare say the property taxes in California (not NV) could cost you close to that for grazing land necessary for 900 head of cattle. Remember this is desert property and more land is needed for cattle then in some other parts of country - mid west for example.

The real figure to note is the cost of grazing fees per head for that steers life: That is $32.88 maximum. For a steer that should garnish $1200-$1300 today - maybe more or less depending on its weight and health. $32.88 with no property taxes, BLM protection from poachers, land use management, and yes they spend some of it to protect a damn turtle - so what. Clive managed to rack up $1,100,000 worth of these fees by not paying for 21 years. Its not hard if you have 800-900 permits.


j-mac said:
Oh wow...Is that right? $1.37? Oh my....
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Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Meanwhile back at the other ranch, Ukraine and Russia are about to start WWIII.

This is no time for another Civil War.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Erod said:
Meanwhile back at the other ranch, Ukraine and Russia are about to start WWIII.

This is no time for another Civil War.
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Don't worry, this isn't another Civil War. And if the idiots flocking to his ranch think one is starting, it will be over pretty fast.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

CalGun said:
Do you know what the fee is? Its $1.37 a month. I pay for 440 of them and then resell them to cattle farmers at $4.00 a month who are glad to have them. $1.37 a month, and you need it for 18 to 24 months in order to raise and sell a $1300 to $1800 steer. You can't be serious when you think this is an extreme burden on a cattle rancher? Unless of course you are just falling overyourself to hate the government and back Clive who can't pay his obligations like me and everyone else.
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My problem is with the way the FedGov has and is handling this situation.

My figures show he owes a little over $150,000 (depending on the number of cattle over the years) which he's said in the past he would pay to Clark county. They won't take it.

You are correct that the BLM and other authorities let this go way too long.

Exclusive: Does Cliven Bundy Have Something Called
 
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Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

WCH said:
My problem is with the way the FedGov has and is handling this situation.

My figures show he owes a little over $150,000 which he's said in the past he would pay to Clark county. They won't take it.

You are correct that the BLM and other authorities let this go way too long.

Exclusive: Does Cliven Bundy Have Something Called
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I agree somewhat, with the exception of the amount. He owes for fines, interest, and more than 150K just in arrears grazing fees alone. He may have a weak leg to stand upon if he put the 1.1 million owed in a trust account pending the result of any final court judgement. As it is, he's just some dude who got caught stealing and is moaning about having to pay restitution. It's entirely his own fault stemming from his own bad choices.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Deuce said:
Funny how ENFORCING the LAW is such a battle cry for the right, except when they don't want the law enforced.
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Most people I know and have seen here dont have a problem with enforcing the law and dont see Bundy as a hero. They think the fed handled this with the same idiotic incompetence they have handled pretty much everything in the last 5+ years.

Now...you on the other hand...all sporting a tiny little chubby over the possibility of a massacre to show just how badass the fed is...are YOU as fired up about the fed enforcement of the law? Say...immigration law?
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

VanceMack said:
Most people I know and have seen here dont have a problem with enforcing the law and dont see Bundy as a hero. They think the fed handled this with the same idiotic incompetence they have handled pretty much everything in the last 5+ years.

Now...you on the other hand...all sporting a tiny little chubby over the possibility of a massacre to show just how badass the fed is...are YOU as fired up about the fed enforcement of the law? Say...immigration law?
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Checkmate.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Moderator's Warning:
For the most part, y'all are being respectful, considering how emotions can run high on this subject, but there is some baiting and personal commentary creeping in. Please stick to the topic and leave out the personal observations. That is all.
 
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Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Does Bundy realize he's going to be a clarion call for all the neo-nazi and neo-fascist groups in this country fighting the "Zionist Occupied Government"?

I just hope he knows the potential can of worms he's opening with all these militia groups rallying to his flag.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

j-mac said:
Do you have something showing that Bundy stopped paying fees prior to 1993? Or is this just more chance for you to childishly use your "CON" this, and "CON" that stupidity? The solar company angle was indeed wrong...But that doesn't mean that there isn't some other use they want it for....Maybe it should be investigated. You mean no cattle unless they pay a fee right? Because that is what this is all about....So they say....Just another progressive government shakedown.
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Actually CON stupidity allows for sooooo many chances to use the label CON. IF you had read ANY of the reports plastered across the internet- not the CON bloggers but real news sources to include Faux Noise you'd see Bundy had indeed stopped paying the grazing fees YEARS before the area was shut down for grazing.

That the Cattleman's Association, by NOOO means a left wing group- ask Oprah and her slander suit- are not backing Bundy because he is a thief.

The CON nutjob slobber is full force trying to make some assinine hint that there must be 'some reason' Reid 'wants' that land, instead of the BLM FINALLY cracking down on a deadbeat. I can just see the CONs flinging poo if the Faux Noise accused Reid of allowing his 'buddy' Bundy to graze FREE on TAXPAYER land for over a decade... :doh

Again if you had read ANY report you'd see this isn't 'no pay no graze' the area has been closed to grazing since 1993!!!!!!!

Closed since 1993!!!!!!

Closed since 1993!!!!!!

Bundy is a deadbeat who thinks the laws don't apply to him.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

I had heard he once had 900 grazing permits - probably back when they raised the rate for the turtle (yeah its offensive to me - but you pay it or you elect people to get it removed). 900x1.37x12 monthsx15 years isn't $1.1 million but with interest - I'll bet its close.


WCH said:
My problem is with the way the FedGov has and is handling this situation.

My figures show he owes a little over $150,000 (depending on the number of cattle over the years) which he's said in the past he would pay to Clark county. They won't take it.

You are correct that the BLM and other authorities let this go way too long.

Exclusive: Does Cliven Bundy Have Something Called
Click to expand...
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

clownboy said:
I'm on the right and I have no problem with the law being enforced here. However, in this case the government could have, should have just gotten a judgement, set a lien on his cattle and his property YEARS AGO. Follow the normal course which is to repossess and sell off to satisfy said lien.

I think they gave him far too much slack for far too long.
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They did almost a year ago. It's on page 5 at the very end of this judgement dated 7-9-2013

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Bundy shall remove his livestock from the New Trespass Lands within 45 days of the date hereof, and that the United States is entitled to seize and remove to impound any of Bundy's cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days of the date hereof.

IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that the United States is entitled to seize and remove to impound any of Bundy's cattle for any future trespasses, provided the United States has provided notice to Bundy under the governing regulations of the United States department of the Interior.


http://www.thewildlifenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Order-US-v.-Bundy-7-9-13.pdf
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20 years is a LOT of slack.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

I will say this, my wife did the math for me, since 1994 our family has paid $147,040 in range fees. If bundy gets away with his antics - I want a refund!
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

one silver lining to all this..
Im expecting all at the bundy ranch to also act with as much fervor to stop the Keystone pipeline.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

VanceMack said:
And yet...there HAVE been cattle grazing on it for 20+ years. NOW it is an incident? NOW they justify spending as much in recon, personnel, administration, Temporary duty costs, and court costs that are more expensive than what they could collect in grazing fees? (not to mention risking an armed confrontation where law enforcement officials joked about filling coffins). Look...Bundy is no hero and there should be a legal resolution here. But dont you think that an administration that cant pull its own hand out of its collective ass, that cant/wont enforce things like illegal immigration laws and is essentially LOST on every metric looks rather moronic deciding to make THIS their 'stand'? You cant negotiate with the state of Nevada and a ****ing RANCHER...and you think you are going to discuss foreign policy with world leaders?
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IF you READ the articles online you see the issue has been in court several times. I'd say this is a last resort to send the message- a CON message BTW- no one is above the law. This is on Bundy, he refused to cooperate, refused to remove his cattle from a now prohibited area, he refused to pay the rather low fees for access to PUBLIC LAND. Bundy risked an armed confrontation... should the 'law' simply ignore a man who has refused to obey court rulings and the law????

The ONLY way there is a legal resolution is if Bundy cooperates. What other thief gets to CONTINUE to break the law, continue to steal and all the 'law' does is send new court date documents. Bundy appears to have a sense of entitlement due to his kin settling in the area just after statehood, a modern day cattle baron who thinks his opinion is law.

Immigration is a CON deflection... millions are being deported, the BLM is in NO WAY connected to ICE. What a twisted CON game to try and use immigration to rant about other enforcing of the law... :doh
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

notquiteright said:
IF you READ the articles online you see the issue has been in court several times. I'd say this is a last resort to send the message- a CON message BTW- no one is above the law. This is on Bundy, he refused to cooperate, refused to remove his cattle from a now prohibited area, he refused to pay the rather low fees for access to PUBLIC LAND. Bundy risked an armed confrontation... should the 'law' simply ignore a man who has refused to obey court rulings and the law????

The ONLY way there is a legal resolution is if Bundy cooperates. What other thief gets to CONTINUE to break the law, continue to steal and all the 'law' does is send new court date documents. Bundy appears to have a sense of entitlement due to his kin settling in the area just after statehood, a modern day cattle baron who thinks his opinion is law.

Immigration is a CON deflection... millions are being deported, the BLM is in NO WAY connected to ICE. What a twisted CON game to try and use immigration to rant about other enforcing of the law... :doh
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No...Immigration is not a CON deflection and if you actually believe that you are a moron. We have an army of border patrol, ICE, state and local law enforcement officials that are fed trained, teams of attorneys, and entire government agencies in place to enforce established and existing federal law. Conversely...you have a rancher who has been violating the law for 20 years and been pretty consistently ignored and THAT is the issue you decide you want to scramble the troops on? Oh...and BTW...doesnt the administration look rather impotent that A-they decided to send in an army of people and B-then they ran home with their tails between their legs? No...they shouldnt have (how did the one Administration official put it) filled coffins...they simply should have handled it smarter from the get-go. Hell...start with being honest. The money for grazing fees...Meh...bull****. Thats not what this is about. Protecting the sacred tortoise? Again...bull****. The government doesnt care about that. The government wants to prevent him from grazing on the BLM lands because they want to build a solar array there. OK...people need solar power...I'm hip. Show an honest representation of why you actually give a **** all of a sudden.

The administration looks like the always look. Weak...impotent...pathetic.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Erod said:
Meanwhile back at the other ranch, Ukraine and Russia are about to start WWIII.

This is no time for another Civil War.
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Its the perfect time for the second not so civil Civil War.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

VanceMack said:
No...Immigration is not a CON deflection and if you actually believe that you are a moron. We have an army of border patrol, ICE, state and local law enforcement officials that are fed trained, teams of attorneys, and entire government agencies in place to enforce established and existing federal law. Conversely...you have a rancher who has been violating the law for 20 years and been pretty consistently ignored and THAT is the issue you decide you want to scramble the troops on? Oh...and BTW...doesnt the administration look rather impotent that A-they decided to send in an army of people and B-then they ran home with their tails between their legs? No...they shouldnt have (how did the one Administration official put it) filled coffins...they simply should have handled it smarter from the get-go. Hell...start with being honest. The money for grazing fees...Meh...bull****. Thats not what this is about. Protecting the sacred tortoise? Again...bull****. The government doesnt care about that. The government wants to prevent him from grazing on the BLM lands because they want to build a solar array there. OK...people need solar power...I'm hip. Show an honest representation of why you actually give a **** all of a sudden. The administration looks like the always look. Weak...impotent...pathetic.
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Any proof the 'government' wants THAT land for solar power, or just more CON crap to deflect from a long time thief, who as ignored the courts BTW, FINALLY, not suddenly getting the LAW enforced on his arrogant butt.

"Troops" have been on the border for decades, this admin has been rounding up MORE illegals than the BushII one. You are just slinging crap to avoid the facts about Bundy and his long time law breaking. He wasn't ignored, the court system took time to try and give the putz time to back down and remove his cattle. :doh

I doubt you have rounded up a single cow in your lifetime much less hundreds at a time... it takes a small 'army' on thousands of acres. Bundy and a few rather rabid self proclaimed militia types have ranted online about this and it would be disgraceful to send civilian wranglers into a hot mess without LE to safeguard them.

The government banned grazing in 1993, has been to court over it and the final straw was Bundy ignoring a court order to REMOVE his cattle.

I agree the BLM should have continued the round-up, Bundy is pushing for a violent confrontation. But I can imagine the CON bloggers firing up- but not flocking to the fire fight- calling any confrontation another 'Waco' :roll:

I can't find where an 'administration official' said anything about filling coffins.... where is that???

Nawww, if a bunch of city takers squatted in a National park, detroying the flora, crapping everywhere, and defied court orders to vacate are you saying you'd tell us you're ok with that..... time for you to be honest.... :cool:
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

notquiteright said:
Any proof the 'government' wants THAT land for solar power, or just more CON crap to deflect from a long time thief, who as ignored the courts BTW, FINALLY, not suddenly getting the LAW enforced on his arrogant butt.

"Troops" have been on the border for decades, this admin has been rounding up MORE illegals than the BushII one. You are just slinging crap to avoid the facts about Bundy and his long time law breaking. He wasn't ignored, the court system took time to try and give the putz time to back down and remove his cattle. :doh

I doubt you have rounded up a single cow in your lifetime much less hundreds at a time... it takes a small 'army' on thousands of acres. Bundy and a few rather rabid self proclaimed militia types have ranted online about this and it would be disgraceful to send civilian wranglers into a hot mess without LE to safeguard them.

The government banned grazing in 1993, has been to court over it and the final straw was Bundy ignoring a court order to REMOVE his cattle.

I agree the BLM should have continued the round-up, Bundy is pushing for a violent confrontation. But I can imagine the CON bloggers firing up- but not flocking to the fire fight- calling any confrontation another 'Waco' :roll:

I can't find where an 'administration official' said anything about filling coffins.... where is that???

Nawww, if a bunch of city takers squatted in a National park, detroying the flora, crapping everywhere, and defied court orders to vacate are you saying you'd tell us you're ok with that..... time for you to be honest.... :cool:
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It may have been part of the ENN plan prior to June 2013, however it is not now, according to Snopes. That doesn't mean the land isn't being eyed for something else either - that information has yet to be provided.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

I am sure it can still become a scandal.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Ockham said:
It may have been part of the ENN plan prior to June 2013, however it is not now, according to Snopes. That doesn't mean the land isn't being eyed for something else either - that information has yet to be provided.
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Keep the CON alive!!!! It MAY have been.... ahhh the loving embrace of 'may have been'!!!!

Just to be honest, since it was back in 1993 that grazing was prohibited on that land- it should have sat idle for over a decade- shouldn't it be put to some sort of use that GAINS the TAXPAYER something???? I mean as it was one man was ILLEGALLY profiting from that land that belong to all of us. Why is this such a difficult concept for the CON mind to wrap around???? :confused:

I see this the same way old abandoned building have squatters illegally camping in them, tearing them up, paying no rent or taxes. IF a company or business sees potential in these old buildings and wants to do something with them... do the ILLEGAL Squatters get to threaten armed violence??? Would the CON 'patriots' flock to the inner city ready to defend the squatters???

Be honest.... :peace
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Grant said:
Do the Feds have an 'exit strategy' this time?
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Why should they??? The feds have never lost a 'revolution'. The CON 'patriots' are the ones chanting about a 'second not so civil war'... :roll:

Do the CON 'patriots' have a plan of attack... I mean if they are sooooo sure it is time... :doh
 
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