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Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat[W:208]

Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

one. govt. web site info changes from time to time
two. your linked article had a quote that the BLM wanted Bundy's land. Well the public land is not Bundy's. So the article on that point is misleading. it also seems to skip the fact that Bundy is not paying grazing fees (for how many years? more than 1 less than 50. :mrgreen:)

You have anything else beside the Beforeitsnews website?

Reports: Company Tied to Reid's Son Wants Land in Bundy Standoff

He hasn't paid in 20 yrs and now they send in the storm troopers to steal (a major crime) his livestock? It was nothing but a civil case before all this.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

It worked for the Civil Rights movement, whose organizers would place children for the exact same purposes.

Equally despicable.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

It worked for the Civil Rights movement, whose organizers would place children for the exact same purposes.

The exact same purposes?!?!?!?!?!? Really!?!?!?!?!? I lived through that period and do not know of that allegation. Please link to verifiable evidence.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Reports: Company Tied to Reid's Son Wants Land in Bundy Standoff

He hasn't paid in 20 yrs and now they send in the storm troopers to steal (a major crime) his livestock?

Steal his livestock? Nope, they were going to remove his livestock from land that is not his. If he does not want his property removed, he needs to keep it on his land. If his current land is not big enough to hold that property (livestock), he needs to buy some property that is large enough.

These are pretty simple concepts.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

The exact same purposes?!

Yes. One of MLK's senior aides, in particular, utilized that tactic, though it is doubtful that MLK knew at the time. Rosa Parks was similarly carefully selected and trained to be a sympathetic figure.

I lived through that period and do not know of that allegation.

Yeah, but we've previously established that, as a left-wing public educator, you are blissfully unaware of politically inconvenient items in American history. However, I grew up in Birmingham, and happen to know some of the people that actually took part. It was a bit controversial - some of them still think it was the right thing to do, others think that it wasn't right to put your children deliberately in harms way.

Please link to verifiable evidence.

From Wikipedia, for example,

...Children's Crusade[edit]
Main article: Children's Crusade (civil rights)
On May 2, more than a thousand students skipped school and gathered at the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church. The principal of Parker High School attempted to lock the gates to keep students in, but they scrambled over the walls to get to the church.[60] Demonstrators were given instructions to march to the downtown area, to meet with the Mayor, and integrate the chosen buildings. They were to leave in smaller groups and continue on their courses until arrested. Marching in disciplined ranks, some of them using walkie-talkies, they were sent at timed intervals from various churches to the downtown business area.[61] More than 600 students were arrested; the youngest of these was reported to be eight years old. Children left the churches while singing hymns and "freedom songs" such as "We Shall Overcome". They clapped and laughed while being arrested and awaiting transport to jail. The mood was compared to that of a school picnic.[62] Although Bevel informed Connor that the march was to take place, Connor and the police were dumbfounded by the numbers and behavior of the children.[63][64] They assembled paddy wagons and school buses to take the children to jail. When no squad cars were left to block the city streets, Connor, whose authority extended to the fire department, used fire trucks. The day's arrests brought the total number of jailed protesters to 1,200 in the 900-capacity Birmingham jail.
The use of children proved very controversial. Incoming mayor Albert Boutwell and Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy condemned the decision to use children in the protests.[65] Kennedy was reported in The New York Times as saying, "an injured, maimed, or dead child is a price that none of us can afford to pay", although adding, "I believe that everyone understands their just grievances must be resolved."[66] Malcolm X criticized the decision, saying, "Real men don't put their children on the firing line."[67]
King, who had been silent and then out of town while Bevel was organizing the children, was impressed by the success of using them in the protests. That evening he declared at a mass meeting, "I have been inspired and moved by today. I have never seen anything like it."[68] Although Wyatt Tee Walker was initially against the use of children in the demonstrations, he responded to criticism by saying, "Negro children will get a better education in five days in jail than in five months in a segregated school."[55] The D Day campaign received front page coverage by The Washington Post and The New York Times.[61][62]...
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Steal his livestock? Nope, they were going to remove his livestock from land that is not his. If he does not want his property removed, he needs to keep it on his land. If his current land is not big enough to hold that property (livestock), he needs to buy some property that is large enough.

These are pretty simple concepts.

No, they did steal his livestock which was unjustified and illegal. They gave it back when forced to do so.

The real question is why now? after a 20 year civil battle.

I suspect Harry Reid knows the answer.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

No, they did steal his livestock which was unjustified and illegal.
Next time a property owner tows off my car from their property, I"ll jsut tell him not to "steal" my car.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

The more I read about this, the more I think Bundy planned this out for his 15 minutes of fame. BLM probably realized it needed a differnt plan of attack, and I am sure has one by now.
As I understood it, this has been ongoing for quite some time. I doubt it was meant as a showdown from the ranchers perspective. It only became an issue when the feds decided they wanted the land for something else.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Reports: Company Tied to Reid's Son Wants Land in Bundy Standoff

He hasn't paid in 20 yrs and now they send in the storm troopers to steal (a major crime) his livestock? It was nothing but a civil case before all this.

I don't agree with your term "storm troopers" for the federal LEO.
Bet you have not dealt with a rancher like Bundy? 20 years or more of not following the law and taking advantage of all of us who are US citizens. Wonder if half a cow would be my share of his free grazing he has stolen?

Your lastest CT of Reid wanting the land for solar. "that the federal property for which Bundy claims grazing rights were under consideration by a solar energy company. So has a final decision been made? Speculation doesn't buy much. What is known for certain is Bundy is in tresspass (grazing without a valid grazing permit).

While their may be politics playing into the land use designation, it is interesting how your links post the feds as the bad guys, and down plays the illegal grazing.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

As I understood it, this has been ongoing for quite some time. I doubt it was meant as a showdown from the ranchers perspective. It only became an issue when the feds decided they wanted the land for something else.

The Feds have proven themselves incapable of enforcing the Mexican/US border, and in fact are very selective in which laws they do enforce in that regard.The Community Organizer and Harry Reid can't do much internationally but have proven to be a powerhouse against their fellow Americans.

It's a sad thing to watch Americans turning on each other this way, with many of their fellow Americans urging on their now commonplace SWAT teams.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

I don't agree with your term "storm troopers" for the federal LEO.
Bet you have not dealt with a rancher like Bundy? 20 years or more of not following the law and taking advantage of all of us who are US citizens. Wonder if half a cow would be my share of his free grazing he has stolen?

Your lastest CT of Reid wanting the land for solar. "that the federal property for which Bundy claims grazing rights were under consideration by a solar energy company. So has a final decision been made? Speculation doesn't buy much. What is known for certain is Bundy is in tresspass (grazing without a valid grazing permit).

While their may be politics playing into the land use designation, it is interesting how your links post the feds as the bad guys, and down plays the illegal grazing.

Big government advocate I see. We'll see how all this plays out.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

How many times does this need to be posted?

Sorting Fact From Fiction on Chinese Solar In Nevada | Commentary | ReWire | KCET

The article then discusses the project at some length, quoting a Reuters article from August 2012.

There's a reason for that 2012 dateline in the Reuters piece: The "Chinese energy firm" being discussed is ENN Mojave Energy, and the project was canceled in 2013 after languishing for many months unbuilt and unfunded. There haven't been many articles on the project since 2012, for the simple reason that it became clear it probably wasn't happening around then.

To be clear, Daniels did not specifically say that the ENN Mojave Energy project was planned for the land on which Bundy's cattle now trespass. But that's certainly what people took away from it: Harry Reid ordered Bundy's cattle removed so that his son Rory could build a solar project on it for the Chinese Communists.

There are two little problems with that interpretation of the story, one of which lends support for the notion that Americans have no idea how to read maps: Bundy's cattle are in Bunkerville, Nevada which is here, and the proposed ENN plant would have been sited in Laughlin Nevada, which is here, and the two places are almost 180 miles apart.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

How many times does this need to be posted?

I'll grant you that this solar thing is a red herring, but what of the claim that Reid had his ex staffer, now BLM chief pull strings to wave the turtle regs for a political donor....? I guess that one's true.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

I believe the last court case was 21 years ago....it's not like Clive is an illegal alien so how long should they wait?


It's a civil matter that should be handle as such.
The way the government is handling it tells me it's about far more than paying a fee.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Big government advocate I see. We'll see how all this plays out.

You know they say about Assume, don't you.

Where have I stated I am a big government advocate?

The issue is illegal grazing, the lack of payment for years.

It is hard to believe your political lean is conservative when you seem to support someone breaking the law over many years.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Too many people are thinking with their little heads on this topic.

The guy is a deadbeat who has been using public land to graze his cattle for decades, and refusing to pay the grazing fees to do so. It's kind of like one of the ranchers from Central California deciding that the lush grazing in Yosemite is just what his cows need, and herding a few thousand head into the park, which is public land after all, to get free cattle feed and up his profit at the public's expense.

Hey, if Bundy can do it, so can he, amirite? How about all those million head of cattle surrounding Yellowstone, and all the yummy grazing pastures there. It's public land; ranchers are part of the public, so how about they just herd 'em all into Yellowstone to graze the place down to dirt?

Oh but that's different, you say!!! No, actually, it isn't different at all. There are pastures in national parks that are used by local ranchers for grazing, ranchers who follow the law, pay the grazing fees and adhere to the grazing schedule to make certain that other wildlife and the land itself are not damaged. Bundy just helped himself to hundreds of prime grazing acres, and refused to pay for the privilege or adhere to the law regarding care of public land. He's a self-absorbed, profit-greedy hunk of scum, and I have not a single **** to give about the predicament he created for himself.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Too many people are thinking with their little heads on this topic.

The guy is a deadbeat who has been using public land to graze his cattle for decades, and refusing to pay the grazing fees to do so. It's kind of like one of the ranchers from Central California deciding that the lush grazing in Yosemite is just what his cows need, and herding a few thousand head into the park, which is public land after all, to get free cattle feed and up his profit at the public's expense.

Hey, if Bundy can do it, so can he, amirite? How about all those million head of cattle surrounding Yellowstone, and all the yummy grazing pastures there. It's public land; ranchers are part of the public, so how about they just herd 'em all into Yellowstone to graze the place down to dirt?

Oh but that's different, you say!!! No, actually, it isn't different at all. There are pastures in national parks that are used by local ranchers for grazing, ranchers who follow the law, pay the grazing fees and adhere to the grazing schedule to make certain that other wildlife and the land itself are not damaged. Bundy just helped himself to hundreds of prime grazing acres, and refused to pay for the privilege or adhere to the law regarding care of public land. He's a self-absorbed, profit-greedy hunk of scum, and I have not a single **** to give about the predicament he created for himself.

So the solution it to Leon his property and/or levy his income. Sending an armed task force is overkill.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

So the solution it to Leon his property and/or levy his income. Sending an armed task force is overkill.

It's my understanding that this has already been adjudicated in court, and Bundy lost. If an armed task-force is overkill, I suggest you mention that to Bundy... you know, the guy who suggested putting women and children in front of the armed militia surrounding his ranch so he couldn't be served by court papers, in the hopes that they'd get good photos of some female or kid being blown away by "them damn feds". :shrug:
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

This was one of the funniest threads I've ever read through. Thank you right-wingers for providing memories that will last a lifetime. Its like Roadhouse meets Beyond the Law with a dash of Young Guns. I can only pray the cowboys yell charge and attempt to bayonet one of the BLM truck tires from horseback and win the battle of Cattle Gate.
 
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Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

That's not how it'as dealt with.

here's the reason he stopped paying....onerous government over-reach

CLINTON DOUBLING FEES FOR GRAZING ON FEDERAL LANDS - NYTimes.com

Just one little problem: The fees were never doubled because of Congressional obstruction. Instead the fees today are lower than they were when Reagan first instituted them. With inflation over 30 years, Bundy would be paying about one third of what he paid to the Reagan and Bush BLM
The Federal grazing fee for 2013 will be $1.35 per animal unit month (AUM) for public lands
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Morning Di, I am a little disappointed here in your post.

Too many people are thinking with their little heads on this topic.

Usually you are better than this, to start out with inflammatory pejorative...I expect that from others, but you have largely been level headed on subjects.

The guy is a deadbeat who has been using public land to graze his cattle for decades, and refusing to pay the grazing fees to do so.

Yep, and I don't agree with that part of this either...If the law is that he must pay a fee to do such, then he should pay the fee, and work within the system to change it if he disagrees....Every business I can guarantee pays fees to government they don't agree with...That's how lobby groups came into being....

It's kind of like one of the ranchers from Central California deciding that the lush grazing in Yosemite is just what his cows need, and herding a few thousand head into the park, which is public land after all, to get free cattle feed and up his profit at the public's expense.

I see what you are saying, but in reality, this is desolate land that is not a national park that anyone want's to go photo.....In fact the government in this case had to make up some bogus crap about saving the desert tortoise, when just an hour up the road they are killing them because they are so plentiful...So, the dishonesty is on the government side as well.

Hey, if Bundy can do it, so can he, amirite? How about all those million head of cattle surrounding Yellowstone, and all the yummy grazing pastures there. It's public land; ranchers are part of the public, so how about they just herd 'em all into Yellowstone to graze the place down to dirt?

Oh but that's different, you say!!! No, actually, it isn't different at all. There are pastures in national parks that are used by local ranchers for grazing, ranchers who follow the law, pay the grazing fees and adhere to the grazing schedule to make certain that other wildlife and the land itself are not damaged. Bundy just helped himself to hundreds of prime grazing acres, and refused to pay for the privilege or adhere to the law regarding care of public land. He's a self-absorbed, profit-greedy hunk of scum, and I have not a single **** to give about the predicament he created for himself.

This area is not a national park, and your argument would be better if you didn't try and conflate the two...84.5% of Nevada is deemed "public owned land" that is insane. I heard the other day, that there was a law that the government was supposed to start returning all this land to the states to manage, and they did that, up til they got to the west....What they are doing effectively, is just like the mob as far as Nevada, and states like Utah go, and that is you a rancher? you want to live, and do business in our state? pay protection from us.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

Can't help but think there's more going on here than a simple case of catching a tax-cheat.
 
Re: Armed guards surround Bundy, supporters fear imminent threat

They're raising arms against the law in defense of someone breaking the law.
In which video did you see armed protesters?
 
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