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East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

MildSteel

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Will this be a turning point in the pro-Russian protests in eastern Ukraine. Regardless, the US has opened a can of worms.

East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades | World news | The Observer

East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades

Coalmining is a major industry in the Donetsk region, which has close ties to Russia

Word spread quickly through the few hundred pro-Russian protesters in Donetsk in eastern Ukraine: "The miners are coming!"

The crowd parted as a group of a dozen or so burly men in orange work helmets marched past barbed-wire and tyre barricades into the 11-storey administration building, which protesters seized last weekend as they demanded greater independence from Kiev.

"Glory to the miners!" the crowd began chanting. "Glory to Donbass!" they shouted, much as protesters at Kiev's Euromaidan demonstrations had shouted "Glory to Ukraine!" before they ousted the president, Viktor Yanukovych, in February.

Donetsk is the heart of eastern Ukraine's coalmining country, historically known as the Donbass, and its football club is called the Miners. Cultural and economic ties to Russia – about three-quarters of people in the Donetsk region speak Russian as their native language – have put the Donbass on a collision course with the new government in Kiev, which plans to sign an association agreement with the EU. Yanukovych is from Donetsk and many here still call him the legitimate president.

Collisions were spreading across eastern Ukraine on Saturday night. Armed separatists seized government buildings in Slaviansk and set up barricades on the outskirts of the city in what Kiev described as an "act of aggression by Russia". The developments have increased concerns of a possible "gas war" that could disrupt energy supplies across the continent.

Militants also took control of the police headquarters in Kramatorsk, 95 miles from the Russian border, after a firefight. Video footage showed an organised unit of more than 20 men wearing matching military fatigues and taking orders from a commander while shooting automatic rifles as they approached the building.

The White House said it will send Vice President Joe Biden to Kiev on April 22 to demonstrate high-level US support for Ukraine after expressing concern about escalating tensions in the eastern part of the country.

Back at the Donetsk occupation, the hundreds of supporters who have gathered each day are a small number of the city's nearly one million residents. But if the 100,000-plus employees of coalmining enterprises were to rise en masse, that would change the political picture drastically, in a similar fashion to the Donbass miners' strikes that helped bring about the breakup of the Soviet Union.
 
The OP blaming the USA is absolutely absurd.
 
The OP blaming the USA is absolutely absurd.

What absurd is to blame the "blame the US people" for telling the truth. We are over there meddling in a heavy handed way in Ukraine which is right in Russia's back yard. Then when there is a resultant mess, and someone says that maybe we should not have acted in such a way, you people say, "oh you always blame the US for everything." If Victoria Nuland had not acted in such an aggressive manner there would be no need to say this. She demonstrated such arrogance with that "f*** the EU" remark. Don't condemn the messenger.
 
This is an interesting article

For Ukraine’s eastern rust belt, it is Russia or bust | Oman Observer

For Ukraine’s eastern rust belt, it is Russia or bust

PRO-RUSSIANS cheer and clap as miners in hard hats march into the heavily fortified zone around the occupied state building in Donetsk: here they are heroes, the soul of an economically depressed coal region fighting for survival. As the protesters rally in support of separatists holed up inside the building, virulent anger against the new pro-Western government in Kiev and their plans to shift out of Russia’s orbit is stoked by a real and visceral fear for their future. From the coal and steelmaking industries of Donetsk to factories in Kharkiv pumping out military tanks and turbines, the industrial heartland of eastern Ukraine has always relied on one main client: Russia. “In our region we have a lot of machine-building plants. Russia buys our products. Our factories will be closed because… nobody will need it in Europe,” said Liliya, a 27-year-old housewife. “Our products are not competitive, half our citizens will lose their jobs.”

Jobs lost, factories and mines closed and industries swallowed up by “German businessmen” — these are the fears on everyone’s lips at the barricades of tyres and barbed wire surrounding the “Donetsk People’s Republic”, declared independent by a handful of separatists willing to go to extremes to protect their ties with Russia. Katerina, 50, a kindergarten teacher, thinks closer ties to the European Union will be “very, very bad” for eastern Ukraine. She is most worried about her kitchen garden, which allows her to earn money on the side selling flowers and vegetables. “I saw on the Internet and TV that it is forbidden to do this in Europe. Our goods will not be competitive,” she said. Like the majority of the crowd, she aches with nostalgia for the days when this part of Ukraine was the industrial pride of the Soviet Union, a sentiment strummed daily by old Soviet songs played to the crowd, and constant references to the glories of World War II.

The eastern industrial powerhouse was hard hit when the USSR collapsed and Ukraine won independence in 1991. Many factories were shut and jobs lost as the region struggled to adapt to a capitalist system. Two decades on, the outlook in the economically depressed region, bled dry by corruption and blinded by the wealth of a handful of oligarchs, feels bleak. “Life was better in the USSR, there was equality, there was free education and medicine. Now there is corruption everywhere,” said Katerina. The trade wars with Russia that have erupted since Kiev turned towards the EU following protests that ousted a Kremlin-friendly government have only heightened fears in the region which borders Russia.
.......................
 
If they can do it in Kiev, we can do it in Donetsk. In other words, the US has opened a can of worms.If they can do it in Kiev, we can do it in Donetsk.

That’s what Roman Romanenko says as he organizes the occupation of this eastern Ukrainian city’s seat of government, which he and hundreds like him seized to protest Kiev’s new leadership. Clad in fatigues and a blue beret, the 35-year-old former paratrooper quit his coal-mining job to come here.

“My miner’s soul told me to be here,” said Romanenko. “Those people in Kiev spat on us. They think Ukraine is only western Ukraine and are ruling as they please.”

Romanenko and his fellow activists, entrenched in the building where ousted President Viktor Yanukovych once ruled as governor, are demanding a vote on greater autonomy, joining similar movements in other heavily Russian-speaking cities in the country’s east. Outside is a scene reminiscent of Kiev’s Independence Square, or Maidan, before rallies for closer ties with Europe turned deadly in February, leading to Yanukovych’s downfall and Russia’s annexation of Crimea.

While the eastern uprising looks and feels like Maidan, the roles have been reversed, with support coming from the east instead of the west as former Cold War rivals trade accusations of secret plots to spark unrest. Russia, with 40,000 troops across the border, said attempts by federal Ukrainian forces to quell the demonstrations threaten to lead to civil war.

‘EU Aggression’

Like Maidan, there are barricades of tires and wire in Donetsk, as is the smoke from wood-burning stoves and the bustle of bat-wielding men in balaclavas and home-made riot gear. Their arsenal of bricks and Molotov cocktails, also the same, is growing. There are groups of women, too, only here they say: “Ukraine is the victim of U.S. and EU aggression.”

Romanenko, elected commander of the camp by the council of protesters, dismisses speculation Russia is behind the uprising, as it was in Crimea when President Vladimir Putin sent thousands of soldiers to augment the troops already stationed at Russia’s Black Sea Fleet base there.

“We just want the right to hold a referendum on federalization, so we can decide our own fate,” Romanenko says. “Why are extremists allowed to seize buildings in Kiev, but we can’t do the same here? I don’t belong to any party, just to the national patriotic movement.”

...................



Ukraine Miners Don Camouflage as East Revolt Mimics West - Businessweek
 
Will this be a turning point in the pro-Russian protests in eastern Ukraine. Regardless, the US has opened a can of worms.

Yanukovych opened the can of worms when he spent 35 million dollars on his private residence, and then got surprised when people pushed him out.

I wonder if those "miners" are really miners and if so, are they really from Ukraine? There has been credible evidence of Russia bussing in angry "locals" in past protests(that does not mean that the Russians do not enjoy support in eastern Ukraine). Likewise, consider the fact that out of a city of 1 million purportedly rabildy pro Russian locals, only several hundred show up at a protest advocating union with Russia?
 
Yanukovych opened the can of worms when he spent 35 million dollars on his private residence, and then got surprised when people pushed him out.

Tymoshenko enriched herself at the expense of the people of Ukraine, and although she was corrupt, we pushed for her to be freed from prison.
 
Tymoshenko enriched herself at the expense of the people of Ukraine, and although she was corrupt, we pushed for her to be freed from prison.

The citizens and many posters on this forum just can't believe that they have been misled by our USA Gov't and our National Media. They think they are much smarter than that. In complete truth and recognition of the provlem, it is catharctic to accept that much of what they believe has been an illusion. One must really segregate themselves from Mainsteam Media for a time and seek WorldWide views on all issues to begin to see the truth. It's a masterful stroke of manipulation by the powers that be, especially the CIA.
 
lol I wonder if anything bad has ever happened that wasn't the result of American actions.

Jesus was killed my time traveling CIA operatives.
 
The citizens and many posters on this forum just can't believe that they have been misled by our USA Gov't and our National Media. They think they are much smarter than that. In complete truth and recognition of the provlem, it is catharctic to accept that much of what they believe has been an illusion. One must really segregate themselves from Mainsteam Media for a time and seek WorldWide views on all issues to begin to see the truth. It's a masterful stroke of manipulation by the powers that be, especially the CIA.

What is remarkable is that Walter Lippmann has written so eloquently on the dangers posed to democracy when people do not have accurate information.

Everywhere today men are conscious that somehow they must deal with questions more intricate than any that church or school had prepared them to understand. Increasingly they know that they cannot understand them if the facts are not quickly and steadily available. Increasingly they are baffled because the facts are not available; and they are wondering whether government by consent can survive in a time when the manufacture of consent is an unregulated private enterprise. For in an exact sense the present crisis of western democracy is a crisis in journalism.
 
lol I wonder if anything bad has ever happened that wasn't the result of American actions.

Jesus was killed my time traveling CIA operatives.

The White House just confirmed that the Director of the CIA was in Ukraine over the weekend.

BTW, speaking of Jesus, it is said that a disciple, who did not completely understand what he was doing, became responsible for the events that led to the arrest of Jesus.

Just saying. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 
The White House just confirmed that the Director of the CIA was in Ukraine over the weekend.

BTW, speaking of Jesus, it is said that a disciple, who did not completely understand what he was doing, became responsible for the events that led to the arrest of Jesus.

Just saying. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

...what?
 
Will this be a turning point in the pro-Russian protests in eastern Ukraine. Regardless, the US has opened a can of worms.

East Ukraine protesters joined by miners on the barricades | World news | The Observer

This isn't good. The ruling rabble in Kiev know that they would lose because of the large proportion of ethnic Russians in Ukraine and this is the only way to retain power. It's a pretty risky business.

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-general--protesters-destroyed-704/
"
Kiev authorities launched a military operation against anti-government protesters in the East of the former Soviet republic.

According to activists, four people were killed and two others injured on Tuesday as troops seized an airfield in the city of Kramatorsk, which had earlier been controlled by protesters.

A source at Ukraine’s Defense Ministry told Interfax that there were no victims among the military as a result of the operation.

Acting President Aleksandr Turchinov confirmed that Ukrainian special forces regained control over the facility.

On Tuesday evening, Krutov, who personally supervised the operation in Kramatorsk, appeared before local residents gathered on the airfield. According to RIA Novosti, the SBU official attempted to explain to them that the military had arrived at the site to protect them from “terrorists.” However, the crowd responded shouting they were “peaceful citizens.” The activists then pushed Krutov several times, but were stopped by special forces troops who fired warning shots into the air. "
 
This isn't good. The ruling rabble in Kiev know that they would lose because of the large proportion of ethnic Russians in Ukraine and this is the only way to retain power. It's a pretty risky business.

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-general--protesters-destroyed-704/
"
Kiev authorities launched a military operation against anti-government protesters in the East of the former Soviet republic.

According to activists, four people were killed and two others injured on Tuesday as troops seized an airfield in the city of Kramatorsk, which had earlier been controlled by protesters.

A source at Ukraine’s Defense Ministry told Interfax that there were no victims among the military as a result of the operation.

Acting President Aleksandr Turchinov confirmed that Ukrainian special forces regained control over the facility.

On Tuesday evening, Krutov, who personally supervised the operation in Kramatorsk, appeared before local residents gathered on the airfield. According to RIA Novosti, the SBU official attempted to explain to them that the military had arrived at the site to protect them from “terrorists.” However, the crowd responded shouting they were “peaceful citizens.” The activists then pushed Krutov several times, but were stopped by special forces troops who fired warning shots into the air. "

The question is has the US put any pressure on the government not to harm protesters like it did Yanukovych?
 
The question is has the US put any pressure on the government not to harm protesters like it did Yanukovych?

Busy dealing with those friendly Russians Jets who keep buzzing around their ships.
 
The question is has the US put any pressure on the government not to harm protesters like it did Yanukovych?

Washington Drives The World To War
By Paul Craig Roberts

April 15, 2014 "ICH" - The CIA director was sent to Kiev to launch a military suppression of the Russian separatists in the eastern and southern portions of Ukraine, former Russian territories for the most part that were foolishly attached to the Ukraine in the early years of Soviet rule.

Washington’s plan to grab Ukraine overlooked that the Russian and Russian-speaking parts of Ukraine were not likely to go along with their insertion into the EU and NATO while submitting to the persecution of Russian speaking peoples. Washington has lost Crimea, from which Washington intended to eject Russia from its Black Sea naval base. Instead of admitting that its plan for grabbing Ukraine has gone amiss, Washington is unable to admit a mistake and, therefore, is pushing the crisis to more dangerous levels.

If Ukraine dissolves into secession with the former Russian territories reverting to Russia, Washington will be embarrassed that the result of its coup in Kiev was to restore the Russian provinces of Ukraine to Russia. To avoid this embarrassment, Washington is pushing the crisis toward war.
 
The CIA director was sent to Kiev to launch a military suppression of the Russian separatists in the eastern and southern portions of Ukraine, former Russian territories for the most part that were foolishly attached to the Ukraine in the early years of Soviet rule.

Well we know the type of stuff the CIA does when they get involved. Remember this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/14/magazine/raymond-davis-pakistan.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

How a Single Spy Helped Turn Pakistan Against the United States
...............
But now Davis was sitting in a Lahore police station, having shot two young men who approached his car on a black motorcycle, their guns drawn, at an intersection congested with cars, bicycles and rickshaws. Davis took his semiautomatic Glock pistol and shot through the windshield, shattering the glass and hitting one of the men numerous times. As the other man fled, Davis got out of his car and shot several rounds into his back.
He radioed the American Consulate for help, and within minutes a Toyota Land Cruiser was in sight, careering in the wrong direction down a one-way street. But the S.U.V. struck and killed a young Pakistani motorcyclist and then drove away. An assortment of bizarre paraphernalia was found, including a black mask, approximately 100 bullets and a piece of cloth bearing an American flag. The camera inside Davis’s car contained photos of Pakistani military installations, taken surreptitiously.
.......................
For many senior Pakistani spies, the man sitting in the jail cell represented solid proof of their suspicions that the C.I.A. had sent a vast secret army to Pakistan, men who sowed chaos and violence as part of the covert American war in the country. For the C.I.A., the eventual disclosure of Davis’s role with the agency shed an unflattering light on a post–Sept. 11 reality: that the C.I.A. had farmed out some of its most sensitive jobs to outside contractors — many of them with neither the experience nor the temperament to work in the war zones of the Islamic world.
.......
But the most significant factor ensuring that Davis would languish in jail was that the Obama administration had yet to tell Pakistan’s government what the Pakistanis already suspected, and what Raymond Davis’s marksmanship made clear: He wasn’t just another paper-shuffling American diplomat. Davis’s work in Pakistan was much darker, and it involved probing an exposed nerve in the already-hypersensitive relationship between the C.I.A. and Pakistan’s military intelligence service, the Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or I.S.I.
................

We got to see what Obama was really about here. He flat out lied and said the guy was a diplomat

After Davis was picked up by the Lahore police, the embassy became a house divided by more than mere geography. Just days before the shootings, the C.I.A. sent a new station chief to Islamabad. Old-school and stubborn, the new chief did not come to Pakistan to be friendly with the I.S.I. Instead, he wanted to recruit more Pakistani agents to work for the C.I.A. under the I.S.I.’s nose, expand electronic surveillance of I.S.I. offices and share little information with Pakistani intelligence officers.

That hard-nosed attitude inevitably put him at odds with the American ambassador in Islamabad, Cameron Munter. A bookish career diplomat with a Ph.D. in history, Munter had ascended the ranks of the State Department’s bureaucracy and accepted several postings in Iraq before ultimately taking over the American mission in Islamabad, in late 2010. The job was considered one of the State Department’s most important and difficult assignments, and Munter had the burden of following Anne W. Patterson, an aggressive diplomat who, in the three years before Munter arrived, cultivated close ties to officials in the Bush and Obama administrations and won praise from the C.I.A. for her unflinching support for drone strikes in the tribal areas.

Munter saw some value to the drone program but was skeptical about the long-term benefits. Arriving in Islamabad at a time when relations between the United States and Pakistan were quickly deteriorating, Munter wondered whether the pace of the drone war might be undercutting relations with an important ally for the quick fix of killing midlevel terrorists. He would learn soon enough that his views about the drone program ultimately mattered little. In the Obama administration, when it came to questions about war and peace in Pakistan, it was what the C.I.A. believed that really counted.

With Davis sitting in prison, Munter argued that it was essential to go immediately to the head of the I.S.I. at the time, Lt. Gen. Ahmad Shuja Pasha, to cut a deal. The U.S. would admit that Davis was working for the C.I.A., and Davis would quietly be spirited out of the country, never to return again. But the C.I.A. objected. Davis had been spying on a militant group with extensive ties to the I.S.I., and the C.I.A. didn’t want to own up to it. Top C.I.A. officials worried that appealing for mercy from the I.S.I. might doom Davis. He could be killed in prison before the Obama administration could pressure Islamabad to release him on the grounds that he was a foreign diplomat with immunity from local laws — even those prohibiting murder. On the day of Davis’s arrest, the C.I.A. station chief told Munter that a decision had been made to stonewall the Pakistanis. Don’t cut a deal, he warned, adding, Pakistan is the enemy.

The strategy meant that American officials, from top to bottom, had to dissemble both in public and in private about what exactly Davis had been doing in the country. On Feb. 15, more than two weeks after the shootings, President Obama offered his first comments about the Davis affair. The matter was simple, Obama said in a news conference: Davis, “our diplomat in Pakistan,” should be immediately released under the “very simple principle” of diplomatic immunity. “If our diplomats are in another country,” said the president, “then they are not subject to that country’s local prosecution.”


Calling Davis a “diplomat” was, technically, accurate. He had been admitted into Pakistan on a diplomatic passport. But there was a dispute about whether his work in the Lahore Consulate, as opposed to the American Embassy in Islamabad, gave him full diplomatic immunity under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. And after the shootings in Lahore, the Pakistanis were not exactly receptive to debating the finer points of international law. As they saw it, Davis was an American spy who had not been declared to the I.S.I. and whom C.I.A. officials still would not admit they controlled. General Pasha, the I.S.I. chief, spoke privately by phone and in person with Leon Panetta, then the director of the C.I.A., to get more information about the matter. He suspected that Davis was a C.I.A. employee and suggested to Panetta that the two spy agencies handle the matter quietly. Meeting with Panetta, he posed a direct question.

Was Davis working for the C.I.A.? Pasha asked. No, he’s not one of ours, Panetta replied. Panetta went on to say that the matter was out of his hands, and that the issue was being handled inside State Department channels. Pasha was furious, and he decided to leave Davis’s fate in the hands of the judges in Lahore. The United States had just lost its chance, he told others, to quickly end the dispute.
That the C.I.A. director would be overseeing a large clandestine network of American spies in Pakistan and then lie to the I.S.I. director about the extent of America’s secret war in the country showed just how much the relationship had unraveled since the days in 2002, when the I.S.I. teamed with the C.I.A. in Peshawar to hunt for Osama bin Laden in western Pakistan. Where had it gone so wrong?
 
Well we know the type of stuff the CIA does when they get involved. Remember this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/14/magazine/raymond-davis-pakistan.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



We got to see what Obama was really about here. He flat out lied and said the guy was a diplomat

It was the Pakistani ISI Gen. Mahmoud that was a $50,000 paymaster to Mohammed Atta. I always thought they were behind 9-11. I have never thought of Pakistan as anything but a forced ally. Their alliance is an act and our Intelligence agencies know better.
 
It was the Pakistani ISI Gen. Mahmoud that was a $50,000 paymaster to Mohammed Atta. I always thought they were behind 9-11. I have never thought of Pakistan as anything but a forced ally. Their alliance is an act and our Intelligence agencies know better.

Honestly, I have a hard time believing that Pakistan was behind 9-1-1. If they were, that was sure extremely stupid. That said, it is well known that Pakistan uses radical Islamists on the border with Afghanistan as a line of defense on that border.
 
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