Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

Grant · Apr 16, 2014

CaptainCourtesy said:
And is then the actions of THOSE that do not ask her to speak that are the issue, not those who protested of her speaking. Let's put it this way... let's say that a business decides that they will not serve gays and members of the community do not like this policy, speak out about it, and encourage others to not shop there... which they don't, which causes the business to go bankrupt. Should that be allowed to happen? Who's responsibility is it for the business going bankrupt?

Leftist analogies never really work. You should avoid them altogether.

Muslims didn't decide what is going to be said. Brandeis decided to not let her speak at this venue. She can still speak on the internet, in books, and anywhere else that will accept her.

So you remain unaware that the University was pressured from CAIR and other Muslim groups?

ONE University.

She will never be invited to another American University. Pressure from Islamic groups have again won the day and they will continue to do so.

Grant · Apr 16, 2014

CaptainCourtesy said:
Actually, the reverse is true.

I believe Sangha is correct. Perhaps you should take it up with him.

Gardener · Apr 16, 2014

Sean.McDonnell said:
Okay, I acknowledge your argument. I will say she has the right to voice her opinions, I guess I should have rather said that I HOPE the American people don't listen to her. Let her speak all she wants, but I'd hope that we as a people would be educated enough to know what she says is complete bull

Yes, a woman of color who speaks out against misogyny MUST be telling lies. Is it because she is a woman or because she is a person of color, though?

I mean, since you tout yourself as a "liberal" and all.

Meanwhile, your support for female genital mutilatrion is duly noted.

Grant · Apr 16, 2014

justabubba said:
here is your post where you explained it was the islamists threats which caused her recognition to be rescinded. now share with me what i missed:

She is under threat from Islamists 24 hours a day. She is potential trouble wherever she speaks and Brandeis is aware of that. Why do you suppose they cancelled the invitation??? Why do you suppose the MSM will not publish te Mohammed cartoons, Why did Comedy Central back down? Are you really not aware of what's going on?? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/us/17cartoon.html?_r=0

Grant · Apr 16, 2014

Sababa said:
She is no different than hundreds of people who have left a faith tradition or cultural and then spread lies and half-truths.

What lies and half trues are you referring to? Female genital mutilation is a lie? Marrying young girls against their wishes is a lie?

Brandeis is one of the centers of Jewish learning in this country. Deeply rooted in Jewish education and culture they are also a liberal community that struggles with difficult topics. This woman has said horrible things about Islam in general not just the extremists who use Islam to exploit power. Average Muslims are not in any way like the way she depicts Islam. Again, many of the anti-woman laws and customs pre-date Islam in Arabic culture and of course they are not ubiquitous in the Muslim world.

Islam deserves to have many horrible things said about because there are many horrible things going on within that religion. Islam is a set of beliefs and, like any beliefs, they may contain crap. Islam has a lot of crap in it and some sort of reformation has to take place but, unfortunately, those who gained power through the present system would never want that. And it's adherents are often to blind and uneducated to be 'reformed'.

Now those who want her dead for her positions are worse. They not only pervert Islam but step outside of modernity and seek to find a place for their particular form of authoritarian positions.

Exactly! And these are the people we must reach. Brandeis is not doing anyone any favors by caving to islamic pressures.

But here is the thing, Brandeis has no obligation to honor this woman or anyone. They are not legally, morally or culturally obligated to give anyone a forum or show support for anyone who the community disagrees with. While Brandeis should have never extended the invite to this honor the reaction of many people in the greater Brandeis community to her was real.

Quite right. But then theyy should never have offered the invitation in the first place.

BTW her first amendment rights are still intact and anyone saying differently is ignorant of what the 1st is.

Yes, her freedom of speech is still intact but the venues for free speech continue to shrink. The new mantra is that everyone has free speech but you must suffer the consequences if you use that right.

Sababa · Apr 16, 2014

Grant said:
What lies and half trues are you referring to? Female genital mutilation is a lie? Marrying young girls against their wishes is a lie?

Well she is an admitted liar about her story. She is hardly a feminist as she allied herself with some pretty anti-woman positions in The Netherlands. As for what you mentioned, while genital mutilation occurs in the Islamic world it is not an Islamic practice and her own marriage story was a lie so hmmmmmm.

Islam deserves to have many horrible things said about because there are many horrible things going on within that religion. Islam is a set of beliefs and, like any beliefs, they may contain crap. Islam has a lot of crap in it and some sort of reformation has to take place but, unfortunately, those who gained power through the present system would never want that. And it's adherents are often to blind and uneducated to be 'reformed'.

So we can all be critical of Christianity because of the extremists? Cool. All Christians can now be painted with the Westboro Baptist label.

Exactly! And these are the people we must reach. Brandeis is not doing anyone any favors by caving to islamic pressures.

Actually they are living up to their values. There are many people being critical of extremists......we don't need a liar who lumps all Muslims together.

Quite right. But then theyy should never have offered the invitation in the first place.

Which is what I said at the beginning. In fact I ask people there why no one read her Wiki page ahead of the invite.

Yes, her freedom of speech is still intact but the venues for free speech continue to shrink. The new mantra is that everyone has free speech but you must suffer the consequences if you use that right.

NO that is the mantra from the beginning. Free speech does not and never meant free of consequences. It is whining ignorance to you don't have to deal with fall out of unpopular speech. Or should I sue you for not letting me have a pro-Muslim rally on your front lawn.

Grant · Apr 16, 2014

Sababa said:
Well she is an admitted liar about her story. She is hardly a feminist as she allied herself with some pretty anti-woman positions in The Netherlands. As for what you mentioned, while genital mutilation occurs in the Islamic world it is not an Islamic practice and her own marriage story was a lie so hmmmmmm.

Accusations are easy but facts are far more relevant.

So we can all be critical of Christianity because of the extremists? Cool. All Christians can now be painted with the Westboro Baptist label.

Sure, but be aware that Christians condemned the Westboro Church and even allowed them to speak. But if you want to condemn all Christians for their behavior, go ahead. Why should I expect more?

Actually they are living up to their values. There are many people being critical of extremists......we don't need a liar who lumps all Muslims together.

Where did anyone lump all Muslims together? It seems you should be using quotes because these wild statements of yours have lost any credibility.

Which is what I said at the beginning. In fact I ask people there why no one read her Wiki page ahead of the invite.

Maybe they read her books and realized what a brave woman she is. Perhaps they were also against child brides and female genital mutilation. Maybe they were against capital punishment for Gays or women who commit adultery. They haven't said much in that area except that there were protests by the usual suspects.

NO that is the mantra from the beginning. Free speech does not and never meant free of consequences. It is whining ignorance to you don't have to deal with fall out of unpopular speech. Or should I sue you for not letting me have a pro-Muslim rally on your front lawn.

This Muslim 'fall-out of unpopular speech' includes murder, violence, rioting, and billions of dollars in the destruction of property.

What would you be saying that is 'pro-Muslim' on my front lawn? Perhaps this might be a good time to point out the positives of Islamic indoctrination.

Sherman123 · Apr 16, 2014

Sababa said:
Well she is an admitted liar about her story. She is hardly a feminist as she allied herself with some pretty anti-woman positions in The Netherlands. As for what you mentioned, while genital mutilation occurs in the Islamic world it is not an Islamic practice and her own marriage story was a lie so hmmmmmm.

So we can all be critical of Christianity because of the extremists? Cool. All Christians can now be painted with the Westboro Baptist label.

Actually they are living up to their values. There are many people being critical of extremists......we don't need a liar who lumps all Muslims together.

Which is what I said at the beginning. In fact I ask people there why no one read her Wiki page ahead of the invite.

NO that is the mantra from the beginning. Free speech does not and never meant free of consequences. It is whining ignorance to you don't have to deal with fall out of unpopular speech. Or should I sue you for not letting me have a pro-Muslim rally on your front lawn.

What anti-women positions are you referring to? I'm also going to shamelessly copy what I posted in another thread.

This topic is extremely frustrating because I find there is so much disingenuousness on the subject because it makes people uncomfortable.

Let me state for the record that I'm an ardent secularist, my mentor is a Saudi exile, and I'm a strong supporter of democratic movements in the Middle East--from Bahrain to Syria. But for the love of god can we stop pretending that Islam is relatively comparable to Judaism or Christianity in terms of its influence, impact, and levels of adherence.

As a Jew I'm always amazed at this willful obfuscation. The Torah, Talmud, and Midrash are palpably violent, draconian, and primitive codes of law and morality. However is Judaism violent? No, because Judaism went on a different historical arc that cut the tether to the ancient interpretations and practition of its faith. The diaspora and legal prohibitions forced a reliance on literacy, while perpetual minority status dampened the legislative aggressiveness of rabbinical courts and interpretation. Lack of a physical Israel shifted theological discussions away from law, justice, politics, and war, and toward familial and social considerations. I could go on and on.

The reason I bring it up is that Islam and Judaism are actually fairly similar religions, moreso than Christianity in that the point of both faiths in their original and orthodox form is to proscribe a code for living and governing every facet of life from cradle to government to the grave. So what is the difference between the two faiths today?

I think it has everything to do with the obvious fact that Islam has never become separated from the state, it is a holistic religion in a part of the world that never had the kind of confrontation with the enlightenment that Christianity had. And quite frankly Christianity as a fairly malleable religion (it does not prescribe rules for government, life, or law) was probably one of the best faiths in terms of digesting that fight. But Islam did not and has not.

The orthodoxy of Islam is generally unreformed and this remains a serious problem since it is less amenable to liberalization and reform. Why? Because how do you reform a divinely directed legal code? I think it is huge problem to try and equivocate because it obscures very real and very significant problems and discussions.

Violence from the Islamic world is not a circumscribed phenomena. Sure you may 'only' have a few hundred thousand militants, terrorists, and paramilitary affiliates across the globe. But you have hundreds of millions of sympathizers (all at varying degrees) and an obvious sociopolitical worldview that is in direct conflict with the forms of liberalism that have taken root in Europe, America, South America, and broad sections of Africa and East Asia.

Pretending that there isn't an ongoing conflict between Islam and modernity and that this conflict isn't producing violence at unique levels is nothing more than willful denial.

Sababa · Apr 16, 2014

Grant said:
Accusations are easy but facts are far more relevant.

Funny you don't know anything about her if you didn't know he admitted she was a liar and resigned from Parliament.

Sure, but be aware that Christians condemned the Westboro Church and even allowed them to speak. But if you want to condemn all Christians for their behavior, go ahead. Why should I expect more?

But that is what this woman is doing to Islam.........

Where did anyone lump all Muslims together? It seems you should be using quotes because these wild statements of yours have lost any credibility.

When she said [It is not] "a fringe group of radical Muslims who've hijacked Islam and that the majority of Muslims are moderate. [...] Violence is inherent in Islam – it's a destructive, nihilistic cult of death. It legitimates murder." From Reason Magazine Interview:
Reason: Do you think Islam could bring about similar social and political changes?
Hirsi Ali: Only if Islam is defeated. Because right now, the political side of Islam, the power-hungry expansionist side of Islam, has become superior to the Sufis and the Ismailis and the peace-seeking Muslims.

Reason: Don’t you mean defeating radical Islam?
Hirsi Ali: No. Islam, period. Once it’s defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It’s very difficult to even talk about peace now. They’re not interested in peace.

Reason: We have to crush the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims under our boot? In concrete terms, what does that mean, “defeat Islam”?
Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there’s no middle ground in wars. (emphasis added.)

- See more at: The question we should be asking about Brandeis, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Islam | What Would Muhammad Do?

Maybe they read her books and realized what a brave woman she is. Perhaps they were also against child brides and female genital mutilation. Maybe they were against capital punishment for Gays or women who commit adultery. They haven't said much in that area except that there were protests by the usual suspects.

maybe there is compelling stories, but her life story was a lie.....so...........

This Muslim 'fall-out of unpopular speech' includes murder, violence, rioting, and billions of dollars in the destruction of property.

no there are some Muslims who do that.......but here is the thing....that is true of other groups as well.

What would you be saying that is 'pro-Muslim' on my front lawn? Perhaps this might be a good time to point out the positives of Islamic indoctrination.

??????????? So you would say that I have a right to be there?

mbig · Apr 16, 2014

Sababa said:
Funny you don't know anything about her if you didn't know he admitted she was a liar and resigned from Parliament.

she lied to get herself out of Somalia and into the West.
She's not a "liar" and is Not wrong about Islam.
YOU are wrong about Islam.

Sababa said:
But that is what this woman is doing to Islam.........
When she said [It is not] "a fringe group of radical Muslims who've hijacked Islam and that the majority of Muslims are moderate. [...] Violence is inherent in Islam – it's a destructive, nihilistic cult of death. It legitimates murder."

Which is absolutely TRUE.
Scores of Links available, including info I already posted in the string.
Islam applauds murder of it's critics, apostates, and assorted other 'sinners'. (like gays and adulterers)
It's in the book.
The problem is the great Majority/Mainstream/Literal Islam, not a few terrorists that it inevitably spawns.

sababa said:
Reason: Do you think Islam could bring about similar social and political changes?
Hirsi Ali: Only if Islam is defeated. Because right now, the political side of Islam, the power-hungry expansionist side of Islam, has become superior to the Sufis and the Ismailis and the peace-seeking Muslims.
Reason: Don’t you mean defeating radical Islam?
Hirsi Ali: No. Islam, period. Once it’s defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It’s very difficult to even talk about peace now. They’re not interested in peace.

Also true. Bravo Ayaan!
That would be near the same opinion of practicing Muslim reformer, Irshad Manji. (whose life is also in Danger, even in Canada)
Both (and me) have called for a Muslim Reformation such a happened to Christianity 500 years ago.
Radical fringes don't need reformations, Mainstream Islam does.
Of course, Islam had a 'reformation' a century or two ago and that's called Wahhabism.
Ooops!

sababa said:
maybe there is compelling stories, but her life story was a lie.....so...........

No, her life story is by-and-large true.
The woman who escaped Standard Literal Islam (not even 'Radical' islam) and his a hero for speaking out.
Your posts, otoh, are lies.

sababa said:
no there are some Muslims who do that.......but here is the thing....that is true of other groups as well.

BS.
There are other religious groups "who do that" but not amounting to 1% of what Islam does.
People die every day in the Name of Islam from Mauritania to Mindinao.
So to suggest some sort of equivalence is a Raging deception: your PC purpose here.

Sababa · Apr 16, 2014

mbig said:
she lied to get herself out of Somalia and into the West.
She's not a "liar" and is Not wrong about Islam.
YOU are wrong about Islam.

no I am not and she went to the Netherlands from Kenya where she had lived for years.....

Which is absolutely TRUE.
Scores of Links available, including info I already posted in the string.
Islam applauds murder of it's critics, apostates, and assorted other 'sinners'. (like gays and adulterers)
It's in the book.
The problem is the great Majority/Mainstream/Literal Islam, not a few terrorists that it inevitably spawns.

No it is a bigoted lie to say all Islam is responsible for the fanatics....

Also true. Bravo Ayaan!
That would be near the same opinion of practicing Muslim reformer, Irshad Manji. (whose life is also in Danger, even in Canada)
Both (and me) have called for a Muslim Reformation such a happened to Christianity 500 years ago.
Radical fringes don't need reformations, Mainstream Islam does.
Of course, Islam had a 'reformation' a century or two ago and that's called Wahhabism.
Ooops!

You are the ignorant her and her ilk use.....

No, her life story is by-and-large true.
The woman who escaped Standard Literal Islam (not even 'Radical' islam) and his a hero for speaking out.
Your posts, otoh, are lies.

Then why did she admit it isn't......

BS.
There are other religious groups "who do that" but not amounting to 1% of what Islam does.
People die every day in the Name of Islam from Mauritania to Mindinao.
So to suggest some sort of equivalence is a Raging deception: your PC purpose here.

Sababa · Apr 16, 2014

Posted before I finished. There are Christian militia in Africa killing people for simply not being Christian......those are ignored.
Bombings are common...so what are you talking about?

mbig · Apr 16, 2014

Sababa said:
Posted before I finished. There are Christian militia in Africa killing people for simply not being Christian......those are ignored.
Bombings are common...so what are you talking about?

Did you notice in your "reply" above..
You put up one sentence/phrase in EMPTY denial for every FOUR I put up with MEAT Backing what I said.
Nonsensical and goofy use/Abuse of the multiquote.
I backed what I said with facts...
You said NOTHING but "No".

Your posts a total and intellectually bankrupt Washout.
All points With Backing I made within, you Just had one-line "no".
It's Juvenile FRAUD and not coherent or literate either.

sababa said:
Posted before I finished. There are Christian militia in Africa killing people for simply not being Christian......those are ignored. Bombings are common...so what are you talking about?

Duh Yeah, I know.
A Militia in Africa: which is NOT Comparable, AGAIN, the WORLDWIDE daily, Persecution, Cleansing, and Killing of non-Muslims minorities and neighbors by Mainstream Muslims and their Governments.
Christians have been, and are being cleansed from many Muslim countries, especially Arab ones.
(Sudan, Indonesia, Nigeria, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Pakistan, Philippines, etc, etc)
Apostates, Adulterers, and Islam critics too are persecuted, cleansed, Killed. Legally. (not counted below)

Oh yes, the toll:

thereligionofpeace.com said:
Weekly Jihad Report
Apr 05 - Apr 11

Jihad Attacks: 50
Allahu Akbars*: 5 (suicide bombings)
Dead Bodies: 594
Critically Injured: 582

thereligionofpeace.com said:
Monthly Jihad Report
March, 2014

Jihad Attacks: 216
Countries:.. 19
Religions: . ... . 5
Dead Bodies:: 1479
Critically Injured: 2093

List of attacks committed ONLY in the Name of Islam (vs non-Muslims or Muslims of other sects. Not random crime)
Last 30 days Only
I count something like 150-200 attacks in 15-20 Countries. Maybe 2000 dead, just another Month.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

-- Date --- Country ---- - -- - Killed - Injured
2014.04.16 Nigeria Wala -- - -- 18 - 7 Eighteen people are slaughtered by militants fighting for Islamic law.
2014.04.15 -- Iraq - Baiji -- -- -- 2 - 0 Two brothers bleed to death following a Mujahideen bombing.
2014.04.14 Nigeria Abuja - - -- 86 257 Activists for an Islamic state slaughter over eighty innocents at a bus stop with a massive bomb blast.
2014.04.14 Syria Maaloula - - -- 3 - -0 Three Shia journalists are picked off by Sunni gunmen.
2014.04.14 Israel Hevron ------- 1 -- 4 Terrorists kill a Jewish man in front of his family.
[........]
[........]
[........]
[........]
[........]

Grant · Apr 16, 2014

Sababa said:
Funny you don't know anything about her if you didn't know he admitted she was a liar and resigned from Parliament.

In fact that is common knowledge. Read her biography.

But that is what this woman is doing to Islam.........

The woman is doing nothing to Islam.

When she said [It is not] "a fringe group of radical Muslims who've hijacked Islam and that the majority of Muslims are moderate. [...] Violence is inherent in Islam – it's a destructive, nihilistic cult of death. It legitimates murder." From Reason Magazine Interview:
Reason: Do you think Islam could bring about similar social and political changes?
Hirsi Ali: Only if Islam is defeated. Because right now, the political side of Islam, the power-hungry expansionist side of Islam, has become superior to the Sufis and the Ismailis and the peace-seeking Muslims.

Reason: Don’t you mean defeating radical Islam?
Hirsi Ali: No. Islam, period. Once it’s defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It’s very difficult to even talk about peace now. They’re not interested in peace.

Reason: We have to crush the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims under our boot? In concrete terms, what does that mean, “defeat Islam”?
Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there’s no middle ground in wars. (emphasis added.)

Where do you have a problem with this?

maybe there is compelling stories, but her life story was a lie.....so...........

No, her life story is not a lie. Drop the Al-taqiyya.

no there are some Muslims who do that.......but here is the thing....that is true of other groups as well.

other groups who murder Gays? Murder women who commit adultery? Saying other groups are just as ignorant of human rights as Muslims isn't much of an endorsement.

??????????? So you would say that I have a right to be there?

Please re-read the sentence. It is very straightforward.

Sababa · Apr 16, 2014

mbig said:
Did you notice in your "reply" above..
You put up one sentence/phrase in EMPTY denial for every FOUR I put up with MEAT Backing what I said.
Nonsensical and goofy use/Abuse of the multiquote.
I backed what I said with facts...
You said NOTHING but "No".

Your posts a total and intellectually bankrupt Washout.
All points With Backing I made within, you Just had one-line "no".
It's Juvenile FRAUD and not coherent or literate either.

Duh Yeah, I know.
A Militia in Africa: which is NOT Comparable, AGAIN, the WORLDWIDE daily, Persecution, Cleansing, and Killing of non-Muslims minorities and neighbors by Mainstream Muslims and their Governments.
Christians have been, and are being cleansed from many Muslim countries, especially Arab ones.
(Sudan, Indonesia, Nigeria, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Pakistan, Philippines, etc, etc)
Apostates, Adulterers, and Islam critics too are persecuted, cleansed, Killed. Legally. (not counted below)

Oh yes, the toll:

List of attacks committed ONLY in the Name of Islam (vs non-Muslims or Muslims of other sects. Not random crime)
Last 30 days Only
I count something like 150-200 attacks in 15-20 Countries. Maybe 2000 dead, just another Month.

Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time

when you go to hate sites like this to get your "facts" no wonder you like this woman.

Grant · Apr 16, 2014

Sababa said:
when you go to hate sites like this to get your "facts" no wonder you like this woman.

It seems that anywhere the truth about islam is published it is either threatened for destruction or declared a 'hate site'. You seem to suffer, as do many muslims, from Hirsialiphobia. Or Truthophobia.Or Femaleophobia.Of course there are many other phobias within the Islamic community, and they are evident everywhere.

CaptainCourtesy · Apr 17, 2014

Grant said:
Sorry, Captain Courtesy, but when billions of people gather together and call themselves Communists we are obliged to call them Communists by their definition, not yours. The same is true of Socialists and Fascists. They were referred to everywhere as "The Communist World" and anyone who was critical, such as Ronald Reagan, was called 'extreme right wing.

Sorry Grant, but you are incorrect. What they called themselves is irrelevant. The ideology they practiced is what is relevant. Most right wingers have no idea exactly what communism is. You seem to be no exception. Communistic forms of government always turn into fascist states. Human psychology dictates that.

Leftists are always trying to rewrite history but it's a little too early in the case of Communism. Wait a generation or two and then you might get away with calling Fascist and National Socialists 'right wing' but the memory of Communism is still too fresh in everyone's minds.

We've already established that it is right wingers that attempt to rewrite history. We saw you do it on the issue of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the fact that it has always been conservatives who were the ideology of racism. This is no exception.

Again, You seem unclear on Mussolini's past otr the definition of Fascism itself.

No, I've posted excerpts from Mussolini's writing here at DP plenty of times. He denounces socialism, and left wing ideology. For Mussolini, fascism was certainly right wing.

So they did not call themselves Democrats but instead were the conservative party? The problem with you renaming these political movements to suit your own definitions is that history inevitably becomes distorted, and untrue. You might want to call them 'conservative Democrats' but to ignore their political party is to ignore history.

Conservatives are what they were. I am fairly uninterested in whether they were Democrats or Republicans. The party of which they belonged is pretty evident.

Yes, maybe I will. But if you want to see the left lie, turn history on its head and silence others, it inevitably comes from the left.

No, it comes from the right. Historical revisionism is what the right does.

Here's an interesting article. I don't expect you to read it but there might be many independents who might give it a go. The "Safe Space" is Where Cultures Go to Die :: SteynOnline

I listen to the right try to shut down discussion all the time, from gay marriage, to ACA, to the economy. You can post all the articles that you want. I can post all the articles that I want. Guess what that changes? Nothing.

CaptainCourtesy · Apr 17, 2014

Re: Brandeis University withdraws planned honorary degree for Islam critic Ayaan Hirs

Grant said:
Right. You never read it.

No, I read it. And I dismissed it as partisan crap. The right does the exact same thing. Remember the wars? Try to say something negative against them. How about during the 2004 Republican National Convention? People were arrested for protesting LEGALLY. How about gay marriage? Or what about when the Dixie Chicks spoke out against the war? The right is always trying to shut down disagreement.

I have been talking of how speech and diversity of opinion are important in any institute of learning. Please use the quote system..

You changed your position when your original position on free speech was laughed at.

CaptainCourtesy · Apr 17, 2014

Grant said:
Leftist analogies never really work. You should avoid them altogether.

Conservatives always ignore analogies that show them to not know what they are talking about. It's called denial.

So you remain unaware that the University was pressured from CAIR and other Muslim groups?

Which is irrelevant and goes to my analogy that you conveniently avoided. BRANDEIS made the decision. Whether they received pressure or feedback is irrelevant to that point.

She will never be invited to another American University. Pressure from Islamic groups have again won the day and they will continue to do so.

You really shouldn't speak in absolutes. Further, if she doesn't, it is the decision of the Universities. Keep that in mind.

CaptainCourtesy · Apr 17, 2014

Grant said:
I believe Sangha is correct. Perhaps you should take it up with him.

You made the comment. I'm taking it up with you.

Gardener · Apr 17, 2014

Sherman123 said:
This topic is extremely frustrating because I find there is so much disingenuousness on the subject because it makes people uncomfortable.

.

I don't know if it is really disingenuosness so much as it is utter dogmatism and lack of intelligence. People assume it is their duty to defend Islamists because they equate such defense with a virtue associated with and misapplied by their chosen ideology -- that of defending people against bigotry. In addition, they see it as "liberal" (their tribe) to defend Islamists no matter what, as all they know is that an enemy of their enemy is their friend. The right in a general sense is their enemy and so if the right is outspoken in regards to Islamists, by golly, they will then defend them. It is all pretty stupid and conformist, but few people ever think in any sort of original way,as they go about their business of adding their voice to the choir.

Having various self-described liberals routinely defend the very least liberal political/religious philosophies on the face of the Earth is Orwellian enough.To have them so motivatedin their zeal for political correctness that they would savage a women of color who has been victimized by the oppression of such ideology is well beyond the pale.

Sometimes I think the world has gone mad so often do I see this same pattern.

Gardener · Apr 17, 2014

CaptainCourtesy said:
Conservatives always ignore analogies that show them to not know what they are talking about. It's called denial.

You really shouldn't speak in absolutes. .

ummmmmmmm........

Sababa · Apr 17, 2014

Gardener said:
I don't know if it is really disingenuosness so much as it is utter dogmatism and lack of intelligence. People assume it is their duty to defend Islamists because they equate such defense with a virtue associated with and misapplied by their chosen ideology -- that of defending people against bigotry. In addition, they see it as "liberal" (their tribe) to defend Islamists no matter what, as all they know is that an enemy of their enemy is their friend. The right in a general sense is their enemy and so if the right is outspoken in regards to Islamists, by golly, they will then defend them. It is all pretty stupid and conformist, but few people ever think in any sort of original way,as they go about their business of adding their voice to the choir.

Having various self-described liberals routinely defend the very least liberal political/religious philosophies on the face of the Earth is Orwellian enough.To have them so motivatedin their zeal for political correctness that they would savage a women of color who has been victimized by the oppression of such ideology is well beyond the pale.

Sometimes I think the world has gone mad so often do I see this same pattern.

what are you suggesting is being defended. Ali is a liar who had to resign from Parliament because of it. She makes blanket statements about Islam that are untrue and does nothing to stop the horrors she only seems to notice is the Muslim world, all the while getting paid large sums of money to spread her lies and hate. Yes she is under the gun as Theo Van Gogh was and that is horrible and anyone caught threatening her should go to prison or worse. But the bottom line is she, like so many others, are simply spread hate for Islam and not fighting the bigger issue that exists in the world. Again female genital mutilation and forcing women to submit are not simply Islamic practices and predate Islam.

Gardener · Apr 17, 2014

Sababa said:
what are you suggesting is being defended. Ali is a liar who had to resign from Parliament because of it. She makes blanket statements about Islam that are untrue and does nothing to stop the horrors she only seems to notice is the Muslim world, all the while getting paid large sums of money to spread her lies and hate. Yes she is under the gun as Theo Van Gogh was and that is horrible and anyone caught threatening her should go to prison or worse. But the bottom line is she, like so many others, are simply spread hate for Islam and not fighting the bigger issue that exists in the world. Again female genital mutilation and forcing women to submit are not simply Islamic practices and predate Islam.

Your constant apologetics for a regressive,totalitarian political ideology reveals you to be something quite other than an actual liberal.

a true liberal would be championing the rights of women against systematic oppression rather than savaging them in order to remain in lock-step with their oppressors.

Grant · Apr 17, 2014

Sababa said:
Posted before I finished. There are Christian militia in Africa killing people for simply not being Christian......those are ignored.
Bombings are common...so what are you talking about?

What about something like this??Ron Prosor: The Middle East War on Christians - WSJ.com

Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

free market communist

Well-known member

Well-known member

onomatopoeic

Well-known member

Well-known member

onomatopoeic

Well-known member

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

free market communist

free market communist

Well-known member

free market communist