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Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

Not really it was a strategic move on their part. They could have blasted every one of those hillbillies into dust if the government REALLY wanted to.

Now, they are letting them hang themselves with their own rope:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...points-demand-papers-control-taffic-flow.html

As soon as one of these militia members REALLY screws up and ends up shooting an innocent person, they are all toast and the government wins.

Well, I haven't read the OP in the other thread yet. But as a general matter, I am not keen on "malitia" doing anything...But a "strategic" move would be, "lose the battle to win the war" type of thing, so, no matter how you spin it, the battle was lost by the government, and the war goes on....

As for the government having ability to "turn those hillbillies into dust".... Sounds to me like that was your preferred outcome....Not only disparaging the people that were there by using a derogatory name to label them with, but actually hoping that they did such...I find that part of it from you TNE, disgusting....In the end, you really just project that you are for authoritarian government.

We'll have to see if anything like that happens, I hope not....
 
Did they succeed at that? I don't think they did....They packed up and left after destroying some infrastructure, and seized some cattle (not all), and they ended up giving most of the cattle back so they say, so it seems to me they got their asses handed to them...
Meh, I used to have wet dreams too, mostly when I was a teen. :lamo
 
Well, I haven't read the OP in the other thread yet. But as a general matter, I am not keen on "malitia" doing anything...But a "strategic" move would be, "lose the battle to win the war" type of thing, so, no matter how you spin it, the battle was lost by the government, and the war goes on....

As I said before it was a strategic move. The government would have looked bad no matter what they did only the solution they did amounted to no lose of life.

As for the government having ability to "turn those hillbillies into dust".... Sounds to me like that was your preferred outcome....Not only disparaging the people that were there by using a derogatory name to label them with, but actually hoping that they did such...I find that part of it from you TNE, disgusting....In the end, you really just project that you are for authoritarian government.

Nope I just was stating facts that if the government wanted them dead, they would be dead. I have made numerous posts saying that I don't agree with the force the government used but I'm not about to agree to some assinine claim that they somehow handed the government "their assess" when in fact the government chose life instead of killing every one of them.

Seems as usual you know **** about me and continue spoouting off idiotic comments when you don't have a clue. I have mmy posts to back me up, what posts do YOU have that shows differently? You have no choice but to lie it seems.

We'll have to see if anything like that happens, I hope not....

I hope not either, but when people get a big chip on their shoulder that they are above the law, bad things happen. We have seen that with the government and a militia is not immuned to the same thing.
 
As I said before it was a strategic move. The government would have looked bad no matter what they did only the solution they did amounted to no lose of life.

Yeah, and why would the government have looked bad "no matter what they did"? Could it be that they are over reaching in the first place?

Nope I just was stating facts that if the government wanted them dead, they would be dead. I have made numerous posts saying that I don't agree with the force the government used but I'm not about to agree to some assinine claim that they somehow handed the government "their assess" when in fact the government chose life instead of killing every one of them.

Yeah, now that you mention it, I have seen posts by you earlier saying that....I apologize....

Seems as usual you know **** about me and continue spoouting off idiotic comments when you don't have a clue. I have mmy posts to back me up, what posts do YOU have that shows differently? You have no choice but to lie it seems.

Eh, I deserved that I guess...:shrug:

I hope not either, but when people get a big chip on their shoulder that they are above the law, bad things happen. We have seen that with the government and a militia is not immuned to the same thing.

I agree...And think we need to get to the bottom of this before it ramps up into a shooting incident...
 
Yeah, and why would the government have looked bad "no matter what they did"? Could it be that they are over reaching in the first place?

Big time, which is why I'm glad they didn't choose to do something that would have caused an engagement. The ranchers would have lost.

Yeah, now that you mention it, I have seen posts by you earlier saying that....I apologize....

Thank you very much, apology accepted.

Eh, I deserved that I guess...:shrug:

It happens and I'm no more right for saying it how I did, so for that I apoogize, I could have handled it better than I did.

I agree...And think we need to get to the bottom of this before it ramps up into a shooting incident...

I agree there and hopefully this will die down but I've got my doubts because the more and more the militia crosses the line, the closer the government will have no choice but to intervene.

That's why I think it was a strategic move on the part of the government. The government knows Bundy has public support, but if the militia overteps it's bounds and does something stupid, the public will demand something be done.
 
Did they succeed at that? I don't think they did....They packed up and left after destroying some infrastructure, and seized some cattle (not all), and they ended up giving most of the cattle back so they say, so it seems to me they got their asses handed to them...

You mean to say you think freeloader Bundy is still sucking at the government teat and running his cattle on public land for free?

If that's so, then they did indeed fail. I was under the impression that they put an end to his illegal operation.
 
You mean to say you think freeloader Bundy is still sucking at the government teat and running his cattle on public land for free?

If that's so, then they did indeed fail. I was under the impression that they put an end to his illegal operation.


No, they didn't put an end to anything....As far as I know, they tried to sell the cattle they stole, by doing it in Utah, and the auction houses all turned the government down for fear of being "blacklisted".... When the BLM pulled out the announced that they were returning Bundy's cattle...So far they have stopped nothing, but they have succeeded in making themselves look impotent....
 
"Unfair"? According to whom? You? Pfft! Forgive me if I don't care what you think is unfair, or not....And with a court order in hand they did have a reason to come to the ranch, and enforce the courts order, I agree with that...But, you have to wonder why this rancher had so much reach in support at such short notice....It is because, IMHO, that people in that area, and indeed ranchers across the country feel that the government is using regulation, and heavy handed enforcement to destroy their way of life, business, and force them out of areas in the west for land grabs...So, now in order to argue that the government is overbearing, and heavy handed I have to argue to you why someone should be able to break the law? Nah, I won't do that...It is a false construct...Instead tell me why, a rancher with NO links to what may, or may not have happened in the past, needs to have what amounts to a para military force show up to enforce a simple eviction? Tell me why this group of government thugs wanted to set up "Free speech zones".... Is that America to you Joe? Free Speech Zones?

No, unfair based on reasoning. It is unfair to criticize the government for enforcing the law. It is unfair to suggest no matter what has happened prior to coming in that the agents shouldn't be I force enough to protect themselves. it is unfair to suggest that because you don't know a rancher was involved to say the government agents must assume he wasn't. This for safety and to arrest. So, your reasoning rings hollow. It's the type of thing can be seen when you so someone without an agenda, a bias.
 
No, unfair based on reasoning. It is unfair to criticize the government for enforcing the law. It is unfair to suggest no matter what has happened prior to coming in that the agents shouldn't be I force enough to protect themselves. it is unfair to suggest that because you don't know a rancher was involved to say the government agents must assume he wasn't. This for safety and to arrest. So, your reasoning rings hollow. It's the type of thing can be seen when you so someone without an agenda, a bias.

The 'agenda' is in the government owning 87% of Nevada, and other states out west....That's bull ****.....But I understand your complete fealty....
 
The 'agenda' is in the government owning 87% of Nevada, and other states out west....That's bull ****.....But I understand your complete fealty....

Whether that is or not is another issue, best settled through legal means. This is just a freeloader trying get something for free.
 
No, they didn't put an end to anything....As far as I know, they tried to sell the cattle they stole, by doing it in Utah, and the auction houses all turned the government down for fear of being "blacklisted".... When the BLM pulled out the announced that they were returning Bundy's cattle...So far they have stopped nothing, but they have succeeded in making themselves look impotent....
are bundy's cattle today grazing on federal lands without permit?

and placing obstacles in the way of a public auction does not well serve bundy
the costs of sale are deducted first from sales proceeds, and only then does the residual amount apply against his judgment/obligation
by thwarting the public auction, bundy has only incurred more costs of sale which will reduce the remainderman available to be applied against his debt

you identify these outcomes as 'wins' for bundy. facts and reason disagree with your assessment
 
It's beginning to look like the locals are getting a bit upset with the militia types

Concerns growing about militia members at Bundy ranch - 8 News NOW

Businesses lose thousands in Bundy ordeal - 8 News NOW
One Mesquite city leader said the entire Holiday Inn Express was evacuated for hours following a bomb threat related to the Bundy saga more than two weeks ago.

8 News NOW obtained a police report which also shows the hotel received at least nine threatening phone calls in April, after they allowed BLM rangers to stay in the hotel.

Workers were told to kick out the BLM or they "would not be standing in the morning."
 
are bundy's cattle today grazing on federal lands without permit?

j-mac says they are. I wonder. If he's right, the the BLM did screw up. Does anyone have a credible link showing what the end result of this little operation was?
 
j-mac says they are. I wonder. If he's right, the the BLM did screw up. Does anyone have a credible link showing what the end result of this little operation was?

"(CNN) -- A tense, weeklong showdown appeared to end Saturday between the federal government and supporters of a Nevada cattle rancher battling the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) over unpaid grazing fees on public land.

The BLM stopped rounding up rancher Cliven Bundy's cattle and returned about 300 head of cattle to the open range to avoid the potential for violence, according to the BLM and CNN affiliate KSNV."

Nevada rancher standoff ends with feds returning cattle in dispute over unpaid public land grazing fees - WPEC-TV CBS12 News :: News - Top Stories

Is that good enough for you?
 
"(CNN) -- A tense, weeklong showdown appeared to end Saturday between the federal government and supporters of a Nevada cattle rancher battling the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) over unpaid grazing fees on public land.

The BLM stopped rounding up rancher Cliven Bundy's cattle and returned about 300 head of cattle to the open range to avoid the potential for violence, according to the BLM and CNN affiliate KSNV."

Nevada rancher standoff ends with feds returning cattle in dispute over unpaid public land grazing fees - WPEC-TV CBS12 News :: News - Top Stories

Is that good enough for you?

Notice to stop potential bias. These means breaking the law wins. We've set a precedence. Now, drug deals can can be left alone due to the possibility of violence. And these anti-government folks should rush to support them.

:coffeepap
 
Notice to stop potential bias. These means breaking the law wins. We've set a precedence. Now, drug deals can can be left alone due to the possibility of violence. And these anti-government folks should rush to support them.

:coffeepap

Notice it actually said to "avoid potential violence", NOT "to stop violence" as you tried to put it changing the actual meaning of the report, skewing it to read as though there was violence going on....As for "breaking the law", are you speaking of the government imposing the fines? Or the protesters opposing the government actions? It makes a difference.

There was a precedence set. It was set at Waco, it was set at Ruby Ridge, it was set with Kilo, and it is continuing to be set with the land grabs across the country through regulation masking itself as law. At some point people have to see the march toward Communism we are marching toward, and stop. The first plank of communism is

"The Abolition of property in land and the application of all rents of land to public purposes. "

It started with Hoover, and has morphed since then into regulation like the EPA and Kilo, until we have **** like the Federal government owning 87% of Nevada....

Your "drug deal" analogy is hollow, and IMHO diversion meant to draw false equivalency, and highly dishonest as a form of making your point....It is also the most common of fallacy to say that A = B, you don't like B, so therefore you must be against A as well....But you know that.

What we have on display with Bundy to the letter is

"CONFISCATION OF THE PROPERTY OF ALL EMIGRANTS AND REBELS. (The confiscation of property and persecution of those critical - "rebels" - of government policies and actions, frequently accomplished by prosecuting them in a courtroom drama on charges of violations of non-existing administrative or regulatory laws.)"

Now, you'll say that the regulation of EPA protection of the tortoise is law, and does exist, but that is the sneaky thing....It's a totally made up construct to control people...

If Bundy had paid his fees, and fines on time, his cattle would be able to graze legally today...although some environmental protection has been a good thing, and proven to have aided in cleaning up our lands, lakes, rivers, and air, it has been corrupted by progressive global socialists, and anarchists that would love to see nothing better in their eyes than to have the US fail, and crumble....But that's my opinion....Ask yourself Joe, Here are the 10 planks that Marx said must be done to bring down a free enterprise society, and you tell me how many are being done today, by this administration....

1. Abolition of property in land and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated incometax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. CONFISCATION OF THE PROPERTY OF ALL EMIGRANTS AND REBELS.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State.

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State.

8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Now you tell me what of these are not either being attempted, or are already in place?
 
#10 is the only one of the Ten Planks presently implemented by federal, state and local governments. Public education was present well before ol' Karl and Mr Engels wrote the Manifesto.
 
"(CNN) -- A tense, weeklong showdown appeared to end Saturday between the federal government and supporters of a Nevada cattle rancher battling the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) over unpaid grazing fees on public land.

The BLM stopped rounding up rancher Cliven Bundy's cattle and returned about 300 head of cattle to the open range to avoid the potential for violence, according to the BLM and CNN affiliate KSNV."

Nevada rancher standoff ends with feds returning cattle in dispute over unpaid public land grazing fees - WPEC-TV CBS12 News :: News - Top Stories

Is that good enough for you?

Yep.

What a bunch of wussies. Bundy won, the cattle are still grazing illegally, the cowboy welfare queen is still freeloading, and the Negro still isn't enslaved.

Can't the government do anything right?
 
Notice it actually said to "avoid potential violence", NOT "to stop violence" as you tried to put it changing the actual meaning of the report, skewing it to read as though there was violence going on....As for "breaking the law", are you speaking of the government imposing the fines? Or the protesters opposing the government actions? It makes a difference.

There was a precedence set. It was set at Waco, it was set at Ruby Ridge, it was set with Kilo, and it is continuing to be set with the land grabs across the country through regulation masking itself as law. At some point people have to see the march toward Communism we are marching toward, and stop. The first plank of communism is

"The Abolition of property in land and the application of all rents of land to public purposes. "

It started with Hoover, and has morphed since then into regulation like the EPA and Kilo, until we have **** like the Federal government owning 87% of Nevada....

Your "drug deal" analogy is hollow, and IMHO diversion meant to draw false equivalency, and highly dishonest as a form of making your point....It is also the most common of fallacy to say that A = B, you don't like B, so therefore you must be against A as well....But you know that.

What we have on display with Bundy to the letter is

"CONFISCATION OF THE PROPERTY OF ALL EMIGRANTS AND REBELS. (The confiscation of property and persecution of those critical - "rebels" - of government policies and actions, frequently accomplished by prosecuting them in a courtroom drama on charges of violations of non-existing administrative or regulatory laws.)"

Now, you'll say that the regulation of EPA protection of the tortoise is law, and does exist, but that is the sneaky thing....It's a totally made up construct to control people...

If Bundy had paid his fees, and fines on time, his cattle would be able to graze legally today...although some environmental protection has been a good thing, and proven to have aided in cleaning up our lands, lakes, rivers, and air, it has been corrupted by progressive global socialists, and anarchists that would love to see nothing better in their eyes than to have the US fail, and crumble....But that's my opinion....Ask yourself Joe, Here are the 10 planks that Marx said must be done to bring down a free enterprise society, and you tell me how many are being done today, by this administration....

1. Abolition of property in land and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated incometax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. CONFISCATION OF THE PROPERTY OF ALL EMIGRANTS AND REBELS.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State.

6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State.

8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.

Now you tell me what of these are not either being attempted, or are already in place?

Once you say that we can break laws absent penalty, we can make any law one we can break. I used an extreme example to make the point. When Rosa Parks broke the law, she expected to be arrested, and was. So was MLK. They was no arming up to prevent being arrested. They understood the law and the consequences, and accepted them. You support no punishment for someone breaking the law, and that is the bottom line. If the law is wrong, let it come to light. But you don't arm up and say we'll shoot law enforcement personal.

Now, I don't think this meets the level of civil rights either. This is just a freeloader using government land. Whether the government in that state has gone to far is another issue, and one worthy of discussion outside this event. But this is no hero of any movement. He's just a welfare rancher.
 
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