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Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

Dittohead not! said:
Bundy is a freeloading racist who is about to get taken off of public land he has no right to use. That's all he is. He'll lose his cattle, maybe pay a fine, perhaps even do some jail time, but not likely.

Still, some will see him as some sort of unlikely folk hero, compare him to the Chinese man who stood up to tanks, even to the revolutionaries of '76, when all he really is is a cheater.

A hero he is not, nor is he really a "terrorist". That word has been grossly overused of late.
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He certainly acts like a terrorist. Threatening to use women shields. That's what bin laden did to defend himself from navy seals.
 
Dittohead not! said:
So, Bundy just might spend some time in jail. Good to know.
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Well, first federal agents will need to find a way to arrest him first, without incident, and without risking the lives of other people, whether they be pro Bundy or not. I think they might have learned lessons from past problems with ornery protesters.
 
AJiveMan said:
In the right wing article, it stated the BLM categorically denied wanting to grab the land the Texas AG said they (BLM) were going to grab.
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Its a fast moving story and the BLM may well have changed its mind after the Bundy stand off. Evindently, the BLM was going to hold hearing regarding the issue and had contended in the past that the current boundaries were not satisfactory Amid Nevada fight, Texas in its own land dispute - Washington Times

In short, what the BLM is appears to be saying is that: Right now, and especially after the stand off with Bundy and the anarchists, we are not doing "X". But.... we are not going to renounce "X" as a concept.

"X" equals considering annexations
Furthermore, the BLM used the river and terminology concept to annex land in the area in the past. Republicans warn BLM eyeing land grab along Texas-Oklahoma border | Fox News

http://www.rfdtv.com/story/25206377/oklahoma-texas-border-dispute-has-ranchers-worried

In the end, these land disputes are a mixture or valid cases (or concerns) and totally invalid (Bundy).
 
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99percenter said:
He certainly acts like a terrorist. Threatening to use women shields. That's what bin laden did to defend himself from navy seals.
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I only recall one person saying something about women & kids as shields, and it wasn't Bundy, it was Richard Mack, unless I missed Bundy saying it?

In my opinion, it's also very disrespectful to the thousands of innocent people who lost their lives at the hands of Bin Laden to draw any kind of comparison between Bundy & Bin Laden.
 
Cryptic said:
Its a fast moving story and the BLM may well have changed its mind after the Bundy stand off. Evindently, the BLM was going to hold hearing regarding the issue and had contended in the pst that the current boundaries were not satisfactory Amid Nevada fight, Texas in its own land dispute - Washington Times

Furthermore, the BLM used the river and terminology concept to annex land in the area in the past. Republicans warn BLM eyeing land grab along Texas-Oklahoma border | Fox News


In the end, these land disputes are a mixture or valid cases (or concerns) and totally invalid (Bundy).
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Like I said, the Texas AG is basically throwing gas on a fire.

Let's get back into Nevada now with the Bundy situation.
 
AJiveMan said:
Well, first federal agents will need to find a way to arrest him first, without incident, and without risking the lives of other people, whether they be pro Bundy or not. I think they might have learned lessons from past problems with ornery protesters.
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Good point.
Best just to round up the cattle, sell them to pay unpaid bills, then go home and let Bundy and his "militia" stew in their own juices.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Good point.
Best just to round up the cattle, sell them to pay unpaid bills, then go home and let Bundy and his "militia" stew in their own juices.
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Don't think selling the cattle will be enough to pay of bundy's debts.
 
tres borrachos said:
I only recall one person saying something about women & kids as shields, and it wasn't Bundy, it was Richard Mack, unless I missed Bundy saying it?

In my opinion, it's also very disrespectful to the thousands of innocent people who lost their lives at the hands of Bin Laden to draw any kind of comparison between Bundy & Bin Laden.
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Kind of like bundy comparing himself to MLK.
 
AJiveMan said:
Like I said, the Texas AG is basically throwing gas on a fire.

Let's get back into Nevada now with the Bundy situation.
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Abbot should probably calm down. But... the BLM should renounce the annexations of private land as a concept, not just as something that "we are not going to do now"
 
Cryptic said:
Abbot should probably calm down. But... the BLM should renounce the annexations of private land as a concept, not just as something that "we are not going to do now"
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Let's not conflate the Bundy affair with the government "annexing" private land. That is a totally different idea, and one that is unconstitutional and never going to happen.

Unless, of course, they're going to use the asset forfeiture laws.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Good point.
Best just to round up the cattle, sell them to pay unpaid bills, then go home and let Bundy and his "militia" stew in their own juices.
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Someone earlier brought up the issue of drones.

No, I don't believe for a minute the government would use an armed drone to take Bundy out, that's not how our government operates on American soil.

However, the government might be using drones for surveillance purposes. One or two might be used to track his habits, where he goes, what he does, and there could be FBI agents from afar with camera equipped telescopes keeping track of his movements, who is with him when he leaves the house, barn, or corrale, and they'll likely put all this information together and make a quick and decisive move to arrest him and a handful of his followers without compromising Bundy's children or immediate family.

Who knows? It is possible the FBI might use 2 or 3 Chevy Suburbans and drive right up to his home and say, Mr. Bundy, we have a warrant for your arrest, and he might go peaceably without resistance.
 
Dittohead not! said:
That's terrible.

If they get away with it, we might as well ditch what tatters there may be left of the Fifth Amendment.

Meanwhile, the Bundy affair and the Texas land grab are two very different things.
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I agree completely- with all your points.

I cant believe that the BLM will not renounce the annexation of private land as a concept- not "we'll, we were going to study a proposal to do so, but we are definelty not considering annexations- now."

Even considering proposals to annex private land (let alone actually annexing) just adds fuel to Bundy and his followers.
 
Cryptic said:
I agree completely- with all your points.

I cant beleive that the BLM will not renounce the annexation of private land as a concept- not "we'll, we were going to study a proposal to do so, but we are definelty not considering annexations- now."
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I would hope not. Further, if they do go ahead with it, I'd hope that the SCOTUS would declare it what it is, unconstitutional.

But, then asset forfeiture continues, and no one has even brought it to the SCOTUS as far as I know.
 
I wished people would get back on the subject of this thread.

If you want to discuss Texas and Oklahoma land squabbles, please, start another thread.

BLM Red River Statement

To be clear, Bundy never owned the land he was permitted to graze his cattle upon. The BLM didn't grab any land he owns.
 
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tres borrachos said:
I only recall one person saying something about women & kids as shields, and it wasn't Bundy, it was Richard Mack, unless I missed Bundy saying it?

In my opinion, it's also very disrespectful to the thousands of innocent people who lost their lives at the hands of Bin Laden to draw any kind of comparison between Bundy & Bin Laden.
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Bundy is a member of the Sovereign Citizen movement which is closely aligned with domestic terrorism. Terry Nichols and the Oklahoma city bombing are a prime example of this group acting against the United States. There are many other smaller incidents. The Sovereign Citizen's movement is an offshoot of the Posse Comitatus movement which like Al Qaeda was founded on hatred and intolerance. The death toll from this movement may not be as high as Al Qaeda, but it's certainly in the hundreds.

They're not the same, but it's silly to discount the similarities.
 
Mithros said:
Bundy is a member of the Sovereign Citizen movement which is closely aligned with domestic terrorism. Terry Nichols and the Oklahoma city bombing are a prime example of this group acting against the United States. There are many other smaller incidents. The Sovereign Citizen's movement is an offshoot of the Posse Comitatus movement which like Al Qaeda was founded on hatred and intolerance. The death toll from this movement may not be as high as Al Qaeda, but it's certainly in the hundreds.

They're not the same, but it's silly to discount the similarities.
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but they are not responsible for killing the same number of people. how could you then say they are similar. of course similarity extends itself only in terms of the numbers of people murdered sarcasm alert.gif
 
Mithros said:
Bundy is a member of the Sovereign Citizen movement which is closely aligned with domestic terrorism. Terry Nichols and the Oklahoma city bombing are a prime example of this group acting against the United States. There are many other smaller incidents. The Sovereign Citizen's movement is an offshoot of the Posse Comitatus movement which like Al Qaeda was founded on hatred and intolerance. The death toll from this movement may not be as high as Al Qaeda, but it's certainly in the hundreds.

They're not the same, but it's silly to discount the similarities.
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IMO, Bundy is on dangerous ground asking for militias to help him fight the government, he should have hired a prominent attorney or several to present his case.
 
AJiveMan said:
IMO, Bundy is on dangerous ground asking for militias to help him fight the government, he should have hired a prominent attorney or several to present his case.
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my understanding is he had to represent himself in the prior litigation because no lawyer was willing to be embarrassed as the attorney of record in a certain losing situation. after all, he had no sound argument and had to make one up. one almost as 'good' as asking if negroes would not be better off as slaves
 
Dittohead not! said:
Good point.
Best just to round up the cattle, sell them to pay unpaid bills, then go home and let Bundy and his "militia" stew in their own juices.
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That's what they were doing and then the right wingers freaked the **** out.
 
jonny5 said:
Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
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Amendment X - the last resort of the desperate.
 
justabubba said:
my understanding is he had to represent himself in the prior litigation because no lawyer was willing to be embarrassed as the attorney of record in a certain losing situation. after all, he had no sound argument and had to make one up. one almost as 'good' as asking if negroes would not be better off as slaves
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Well, considering his demonstrated lack of prowess in holding a press conference, is it any wonder?
 
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