• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

apdst said:
Well, it IS his land, actually.

Did you read my post at all? Or, are you so blinded with hatred towards anyone who doesn't kiss Obama's feet that you throw a temper tantrum?
Click to expand...

Even Cliven Bundy disagrees with you, he has said many times that he has 160 acres the cattle though are on public land. He has no more claim to that land than I do for the street in front of my house. The last time that the road was paved I paid my share, and I have been using if for a great deal of time and so did me grandfather and most of my family.
 
apdst said:
Well, it IS his land, actually.

Did you read my post at all? Or, are you so blinded with hatred towards anyone who doesn't kiss Obama's feet that you throw a temper tantrum?
Click to expand...

It's his land because you decided to say any government owned land actually belongs to the people okay, I'm going to go to area 51 this summer and stake out my claim on what I think I own. :lamo
 
Harry Reid the communist senator has a son who has his pocketbook focused on some of that land along with Chinese communists investors to build solar plantations on that land. The scum sucking feds own 80% of the land in Nevada and will rent it out to tree huggers for solar profits but not to Americans raising animals.
 
Somerville said:
Don't you have spell check on your computer - where a little red line appears under a misspelled word?

and just where does it say Congress shall make no law in regards to land rights?
Click to expand...

Oh no! Someone called the spelling pahlice! Where does it say they can? Per the 10th amendment, if it doesnt say they can, then they cant.
 
Buck Ewer said:
How can you say that it is his land? That's absolutely ridiculous.
How the f**k is a responsible rancher "kissing Obama's feet" when they pay the fees set down by the Bureau of Land Management that has been around since 1946?
Were they kissing Reagan's feet when they paid the fees in the 1980s?
Your childish partisan tantrum has no merit as you defend a wealthy deadbeat welfare queen like Bundy.
Click to expand...

You do realize the land and issue is a state issue not a Fed issue right? BLM had no right to be there to begin with.
 
NIMBY said:
There are SEVEN golf courses in the small town of Mesquite.
As I said earlier, you don't know what you're talking about with this area .
Click to expand...

And how many are in vegas or phoenix or elsewhere in the southwest. How many are there in palm springs? You are just ragging on the people of mesquite because you are bigoted against Mormons.
 
Fenton said:
Too bad the BLM isn't so concerned with public lands on the North Side of the Rio Grande.

You know, the lands that illegals have turned into a Dump.
Click to expand...

I've been reading up to this post with no desire to post in here, until I saw the clueless post underneath this one with a "Thread hijack in progress" image. That post is what's wrong with this thread, and your post is what's important in this thread (to me anyway).

Somehow on page 1 this got turned into a "right versus left" issue, which is NOT what this is all about. It's the Feds focusing on and sending a virtual army into the desert to go after a rancher and his cattle. Meanwhile, illegals are crossing the border by the truckload and dumping everything from used diapers to empty bottles of Mogen David 20/20 in the lands right there, and the Feds cover their eyes to that - and so do the Americans.

I'm glad someone brought this up. The fact that the poster after you posted what he did shows that he doesn't even understand the issue at hand.
 
apdst said:
Well, it IS his land, actually.

Did you read my post at all? Or, are you so blinded with hatred towards anyone who doesn't kiss Obama's feet that you throw a temper tantrum?
Click to expand...

Wow, you think this is about Obama? (hint, the laws changed under Reagan)

How many times does this clown have to lose in court? Or does this welfare queen keep getting a free pass to mooch from you?
 
tres borrachos said:
I've been reading up to this post with no desire to post in here, until I saw the clueless post underneath this one with a "Thread hijack in progress" image. That post is what's wrong with this thread, and your post is what's important in this thread (to me anyway).

Somehow on page 1 this got turned into a "right versus left" issue, which is NOT what this is all about. It's the Feds focusing on and sending a virtual army into the desert to go after a rancher and his cattle. Meanwhile, illegals are crossing the border by the truckload and dumping everything from used diapers to empty bottles of Mogen David 20/20 in the lands right there, and the Feds cover their eyes to that - and so do the Americans.

I'm glad someone brought this up. The fact that the poster after you posted what he did shows that he doesn't even understand the issue at hand.
Click to expand...


....because this whole story is about illegal aliens?

Focus on one angry thing at a time, this is about a welfare queen stealing from the taxpayers.
 
To me this is a case of eminent domain. The Bundy's used the land long before the BLM and the Feds took the land over. Bundy considers his family to be grandfathered in to use of the land and the feds claim control of the land by taking from the State of Nevada. The Bundy's are the last ranchers left in Nevada from news reports I've heard and I've also heard accounts from former ranchers saying that the BLM forced them out of ranching. The cattle the Bundy's raise are free range and as the BLM forces ranchers like Bundy out of the cattle business, what we are left with are small midwestern farmers protecting their greenbelt tax deductions and factory farms where most of our beef comes from.

It's a tough call. I don't think Bundy's legal argument stands up, but I really dislike the Federal government bringing armed troops to use force against Americans who pose no threat to the public. I oppose the recent arming of the IRS and I oppose the militarization of Homeland Security. These two agencies are armed for one reason and that is civilian uprising against a tyrannical government. Posse Comitatus prohibits using the military against American civilians and the arming of these domestic departments only affects citizens.
 
beefheart said:
....because this whole story is about illegal aliens?

Focus on one angry thing at a time, this is about a welfare queen stealing from the taxpayers.
Click to expand...

No, this story is about the Feds focusing too hard on this man instead of worrying about issues that pose danger to all Americans.

I don't lose sleep at night because some rancher doesn't pay fees to Uncle Sam. I do lose sleep because illegals are coming into this country in droves which drains both our economy and our safety.

If you want to stretch the discussion to include welfare queens, that's fine. How about all of those able bodied young men who collect welfare checks and use their EBT cards to buy ripple and cigarettes?

Get the distinction now?
 
tres borrachos said:
No, this story is about the Feds focusing too hard on this man instead of worrying about issues that pose danger to all Americans.

I don't lose sleep at night because some rancher doesn't pay fees to Uncle Sam. I do lose sleep because illegals are coming into this country in droves which drains both our economy and our safety.

If you want to stretch the discussion to include welfare queens, that's fine. How about all of those able bodied young men who collect welfare checks and use their EBT cards to buy ripple and cigarettes?

Get the distinction now?
Click to expand...


Focusing too hard? They did nothing for years! They won in court every time. This guy should have been tossed on his ass years ago.

Sorry dude, you can't talk about EBT cards, this moocher fleeced you of 1 million dollars....that is a pretty big deadbeat isn't it?
 
CRUE CAB said:
You do realize the land and issue is a state issue not a Fed issue right?
Click to expand...
your point would be valid if we were discussing land owned by the state
please offer something as proof that it is the state and not the federal government which owns the land in question

BLM had no right to be there to begin with.
Click to expand...
again, if you can show us that the lands in question are not the federal government's property, then you would have proven your point
until you are able to offer us such proof, your assertion is without any degree of merit
 
beefheart said:
Focusing too hard? They did nothing for years! They won in court every time. This guy should have been tossed on his ass years ago.

Sorry dude, you can't talk about EBT cards, this moocher fleeced you of 1 million dollars....that is a pretty big deadbeat isn't it?
Click to expand...
Wow, a million dollars worth of grass? Yea, real criminal there. Pfffffft
 
justabubba said:
your point would be valid if we were discussing land owned by the state
please offer something as proof that it is the state and not the federal government which owns the land in question


again, if you can show us that the lands in question are not the federal government's property, then you would have proven your point
until you are able to offer us such proof, your assertion is without any degree of merit
Click to expand...

Look it up, its state land.
 
CRUE CAB said:
Look it up, its state land.
Click to expand...

while i agree the property is located within the state, are you saying the federal government has no rights over it. since you can look it up so easily, show us your proof that there is no basis for federal government involvement
 
CRUE CAB said:
Wow, a million dollars worth of grass? Yea, real criminal there. Pfffffft
Click to expand...

If it's not the grass, it's the turtles; if it's not the turtles then it's the grazing rights. The BLM simply needs to take the amount owed to them, put a lien on the Bundy ranch, or go through the IRS and attach his wages. All this show of force nonsense is laughable... it's intimidation. Are we supposed to believe that the Federal Government cannot use the legal and financial systems of this country to make sure owed money is paid?

Bundy needs to get a few good lawyers and the BLM, Reid and his little buddies need to cease and desist the bullying with armed personnel.
 
jonny5 said:
And how is a federal bureaucracy which controls 90% of a state, makes arbitrary laws governing it, and does so without explicit permisison from the people 'minimal govt?'
Click to expand...

The BLM, the National Forest Service, and the National Park service were all set up by the elected representatives of the people to take care of the land that belongs to all of us. No one entity controls 90% of any state. Parts of the public land in Nevada are administered by the other two entities as well.
 
AJiveMan said:
But they have not acted. Lax enforcement of what the fed deems as law.
Click to expand...

It does seem that they acted rather slowly. I wouldn't be happy with a realty agency that allowed someone to occupy a building of mine for that long without paying rent.
 
Ockham said:
If it's not the grass, it's the turtles; if it's not the turtles then it's the grazing rights. The BLM simply needs to take the amount owed to them, put a lien on the Bundy ranch, or go through the IRS and attach his wages. All this show of force nonsense is laughable... it's intimidation. Are we supposed to believe that the Federal Government cannot use the legal and financial systems of this country to make sure owed money is paid?

Bundy needs to get a few good lawyers and the BLM, Reid and his little buddies need to cease and desist the bullying with armed personnel.
Click to expand...

I basically agree on what the feds legal strategy should be. I think your advice is wise.

I do however strongly believe that this entire episode is damning on both sides as it shows there is a fanatic fringe element out there who is ready to take up arms and sniper positions to kill government employees over a disagreement over public policy. And that kind of extremism is a prescription for possible civil war. When I saw the film of a well armed man on a bridge taking up a sniper position to fire at the police and agents, all I could feel was the overwhelming impression that there are some really nutjobs out there who badly need to be placed back underneath the bottom of the barrel from which they crawled out of.
 
Ockham said:
If it's not the grass, it's the turtles; if it's not the turtles then it's the grazing rights. The BLM simply needs to take the amount owed to them, put a lien on the Bundy ranch, or go through the IRS and attach his wages. All this show of force nonsense is laughable... it's intimidation. Are we supposed to believe that the Federal Government cannot use the legal and financial systems of this country to make sure owed money is paid?

Bundy needs to get a few good lawyers and the BLM, Reid and his little buddies need to cease and desist the bullying with armed personnel.
Click to expand...
You mean the turtles that the BLM has been killing for months?
 
haymarket said:
I basically agree on what the feds legal strategy should be. I think your advice is wise.

I do however strongly believe that this entire episode is damning on both sides as it shows there is a fanatic fringe element out there who is ready to take up arms and sniper positions to kill government employees over a disagreement over public policy. And that kind of extremism is a prescription for possible civil war. When I saw the film of a well armed man on a bridge taking up a sniper position to fire at the police and agents, all I could feel was the overwhelming impression that there are some really nutjobs out there who badly need to be placed back underneath the bottom of the barrel from which they crawled out of.
Click to expand...

Force is met with force... people of great conviction are somewhat rare but they do still exist. I'm sure there were extreme members who rallied to Bundy's side but that is to be expected when a heavy handed federal government uses brute force. This is a lesson for the federal government - Bundy will need to fight his real battle with the courts (again) or through his lawyers and the IRS.
 
haymarket said:
I basically agree on what the feds legal strategy should be. I think your advice is wise.

I do however strongly believe that this entire episode is damning on both sides as it shows there is a fanatic fringe element out there who is ready to take up arms and sniper positions to kill government employees over a disagreement over public policy.
Click to expand...
but don't these same extremists view their second amendment gun rights as providing legitimacy for the use of those arms in insurrection against the government?

And that kind of extremism is a prescription for possible civil war. When I saw the film of a well armed man on a bridge taking up a sniper position to fire at the police and agents, all I could feel was the overwhelming impression that there are some really nutjobs out there who badly need to be placed back underneath the bottom of the barrel from which they crawled out of.
Click to expand...
and once you have found the opposite side to now be the enemy in a shooting war, then all tactics - excepting those prohibited by the geneva conventions - become legitimate in that fight
 
I'm totally confused by the right's viewpoint on this. The man is basically stealing. Why is the right supporting a thief?
 
Given Eric Holder's claim to possess broad Law enforcement discretion, I just keep wondering why the DOJ needed to make damn sure to enforce THIS Law against THIS guy.
Can anyone suggest an answer?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom