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Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

Lursa said:
Well since those are public lands, plenty of us do choose to see the tortoises survive and not see the rest of the range degraded by illegal grazing. It's landed that belongs to everyone and he's cheating all of us, financially and environmentally.
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Really, they why are the officers killing the tortoises ? Why are they relocated many more of them? This is a power show. Period.
 
Cryptic said:
I hate paying toll fees on the public roads that I use. Maybe I"ll just exempt myself.

I could justify it by claiming that I have some mystical intrinsic right to travel and that the government is going "full retard" by telling me otherwise.

That aside, I would grandfather the ranchers grazing privelages, but only if he paid the five years of grazing fees that he owes.
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Using a road that was paid for by tax dollars is different than grazing cattle on family and public land. Hopefully this will be the spark that sets off the next revolt in this nation.
 
clownboy said:
I might have been with him but for the bolded above. He doesn't even qualify to be grandfathered in under the law, and it's entirely his own doing.
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Now the OP knows the rest of the story. :lamo
 
CRUE CAB said:
Using a road that was paid for by tax dollars is different than grazing cattle on family and public land. Hopefully this will be the spark that sets off the next revolt in this nation.
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I wish I could have seen the look on your face as your brain typed out family and public land. Those are two contradictory statements but you typed it out effortlessly. Orwell warned us about duckspeakers like you.
 
jonny5 said:
Exactly what is says. If the power isnt delegate to the US, then its the peoples. The govt doesnt have the power to control land in such a way, thus according to the 10th, the people DO.
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Except if it's federal land in ANY STATE.

I know of ranchers in New Mexico who lease land from the USDA ( U.S. Forest Service ) for their cattle to graze upon.

If you pay, you stay, if you don't, you won't.

DOI: BLM: Livestock Grazing

The Federal lease rate charged to ranchers is $1.35 (2007) per AUM (AUM = animal unit month = area (or amount of forage) used by one cow or 5 sheep or 1 cow+calf or one horse for a month). This works out to less than 5 cents per day (about what it costs to feed a hamster).
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2. WESTERN PUBLIC LANDS AS AN EXAMPLE
 
CRUE CAB said:
Using a road that was paid for by tax dollars is different than grazing cattle on family and public land. Hopefully this will be the spark that sets off the next revolt in this nation.
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The issue is that he grazes the cattle on public, not private land. The rancher feels that as his family homesteaded in the area in 1867, he has a family connection to the land. This might well be so.

It does not change the core point though: The rancher does not own the land and I dont own the toll road. Neither one of us can self exempt ourselves from paying the usage fee. I need to pay my road tolls, or find another road to travel. This guy to pay his user fees, or by a private ranch.

As for this setting off the next revolt, many people have tried to self exempt themselves from paying taxes, or from following any number of laws they dont like. So far, these people have found little sympathy as most Americans can see the anarchy that would result from encouraging this.
 
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But no anarchy in what the government is doing? Oh, yea. Its tyranny and most are fine with that.
 
CRUE CAB said:
But no anarchy in what the government is doing? Oh, yea. Its tyranny and most are fine with that.
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It has been Mr Bundy's words which have caused the government's reaction. He has threatened armed revolt since the BLM said "Enough! We are taking the cattle which are wandering on federal lands." I had started another thread on this topic but there aren't so many replying to it. Obviously some folks just jump in at the end of a topic without reading any background links. Bundy has said that "maybe 500 of the cows are mine", that is they have his brand on them but there are an additional 400 plus without brands or ear tags in the same area.

This dispute has been going on for 20 years. That doesn't seem to be the actions of an autocratic, oppressive government to me. The feds have tried to negotiate the situation for years but this clown seems to believe that simply because his cows have been wandering around on the 600,000 acres for all these years, the land is now his. Is that really the libertarian attitude?
 
Somerville said:
It has been Mr Bundy's words which have caused the government's reaction. He has threatened armed revolt since the BLM said "Enough! We are taking the cattle which are wandering on federal lands." I had started another thread on this topic but there aren't so many replying to it. Obviously some folks just jump in at the end of a topic without reading any background links. Bundy has said that "maybe 500 of the cows are mine", that is they have his brand on them but there are an additional 400 plus without brands or ear tags in the same area.

This dispute has been going on for 20 years. That doesn't seem to be the actions of an autocratic, oppressive government to me. The feds have tried to negotiate the situation for years but this clown seems to believe that simply because his cows have been wandering around on the 600,000 acres for all these years, the land is now his. Is that really the libertarian attitude?
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Cloven bundy doesn't own the land. /thread
 
Dittohead not! said:
So, he quit paying for the use or our land, then, when we decided not to allow cattle grazing, he kept using our land for that purpose anyway.

Much like a tenant who quit paying rent, then, when the building was condemned to make way for a new freeway, kept living in the apartment anyway.

Somehow, I fail to see why he should not be evicted.
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Some misinformation here. He refused to pay BLM because they were using that money to force other ranchers out of the business in that area in the name of a tortoise. He offered to pay the county government the grazing fees and they declined to accept the funds. So it's not like he's avoiding taxes. He just not gonna pay BLM who is uses those fees to buy out ranchers.. this is a principle thing.
 
austrianecon said:
Some misinformation here. He refused to pay BLM because they were using that money to force other ranchers out of the business in that area in the name of a tortoise. He offered to pay the county government the grazing fees and they declined to accept the funds. So it's not like he's avoiding taxes. He just not gonna pay BLM who is uses those fees to buy out ranchers.. this is a principle thing.
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Mr Bundy "offered to pay the county government" last year - some 20 years after he stopped paying the federales. Of course the county refused his payments, they don't own the land.
 
CRUE CAB said:
But no anarchy in what the government is doing? Oh, yea. Its tyranny and most are fine with that.
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If you don't like the regulation, gather like minded Americans to change the rule. If you can't muster enough takers...accept your lot in life.
 
austrianecon said:
So it's not like he's avoiding taxes. He just not gonna pay BLM who is uses those fees to buy out ranchers.. this is a principle thing.
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The county doesn't own the land. What's wrong with being bought out? Oh, wait the situation is clear. He was jealous, that's why the Nevada cattleman association isn't defending this clown.
 
Somerville said:
Mr Bundy "offered to pay the county government" last year - some 20 years after he stopped paying the federales. Of course the county refused his payments, they don't own the land.
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Actually.. here are some facts for you... Federal Government claims he owes $1.1 million. $800,000 since 2011. Mr. Bundy offered the County $300,000 to pay the back fees for the time period of 1993-2011. The County actually maintains the lands via contract with BLM.
 
reinoe said:
The county doesn't own the land. What's wrong with being bought out? Oh, wait the situation is clear. He was jealous, that's why the Nevada cattleman association isn't defending this clown.
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What's wrong with being bought out? How about BLM comes in and only 50% in value while threatening to remove grazing right leases? So you are forced to take the 50% loss and BLM then leases that land to Oil companies for fracking and a solar power plant in the works that needs Gold Butte to offset "impacts" of the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone near Las Vegas. But you knew that didn't you?
 
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austrianecon said:
What's wrong with being bought out? How about BLM comes in and only 50% in value while threatening to remove grazing right leases? So you are forced to take the 50% loss and BLM then leases that land to Oil companies for fracking. Bet you didn't know that.
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A nice conspiracy theory, but this parasite stopped paying the fees 20 years ago long before fracking came to Nevada. Oh and most Nevada fracking is in the north not the south. Are you done embarrassing yourself or shall I continue?
 
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reinoe said:
A nice conspiracy theory, but this parasite stopped paying the fees 20 years ago long before cracking came to Nevada. Oh and most Nevada cracking is in the north not the south. Are you done embarrassing yourself or shall I continue?
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It's not a conspiracy theory and I never said it was in Gold Butte specifically but BLM lands used by Ranchers in northen Nevada. I actually have facts on my side and I got more for you.

You've heard of Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone, right? Gold Butte is gonna be used as "Preserve" (mitigation) to off set the land damage to build the Dry Lake Solar plant which was involves a guy named Rory Reid, you know Harry Reid's son. Father and Son were behind that deal.

The BLM claim is Bundy hasn't paid any fees. But Clark County who has grazing rights leases for that land with him that pre-date BLM is being paid by Mr. Bundy.

This is a political fight between Harry Reid and his cohorts against a rancher who doesn't want to kowtow to a $5 billion solar plant.

But don't let me embarrass you too much. I got a lot more of corruption going on here.
 
I'm not all that sympathetic to the guy. His cattle are grazing on federal government land (which technically belongs to all of us). This is not some kind of eminent domain abuse situation like other govt. land grabs. He wants to run his cattle on federal land, pay the fees. They aren't very high compared to what a private land market would be.
 
austrianecon said:
It's not a conspiracy theory and I never said it was in Gold Butte specifically but BLM lands used by Ranchers in northen Nevada. I actually have facts on my side and I got more for you.

You've heard of Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone, right? Gold Butte is gonna be used as "Preserve" (mitigation) to off set the land damage to build the Dry Lake Solar plant which was involves a guy named Rory Reid, you know Harry Reid's son. Father and Son were behind that deal.

The BLM claim is Bundy hasn't paid any fees. But Clark County who has grazing rights leases for that land with him that pre-date BLM is being paid by Mr. Bundy.

This is a political fight between Harry Reid and his cohorts against a rancher who doesn't want to kowtow to a $5 billion solar plant.

But don't let me embarrass you too much. I got a lot more of corruption going on here.
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So ranchers should just be able to do what they want for free according to you? Hell noone consulted me or my family about toll roads, so I guess I should just be able to blow passed them right?
 
austrianecon said:
It's not a conspiracy theory and I never said it was in Gold Butte specifically but BLM lands used by Ranchers in northen Nevada. I actually have facts on my side and I got more for you.

You've heard of Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone, right? Gold Butte is gonna be used as "Preserve" (mitigation) to off set the land damage to build the Dry Lake Solar plant which was involves a guy named Rory Reid, you know Harry Reid's son. Father and Son were behind that deal.

The BLM claim is Bundy hasn't paid any fees. But Clark County who has grazing rights leases for that land with him that pre-date BLM is being paid by Mr. Bundy.

This is a political fight between Harry Reid and his cohorts against a rancher who doesn't want to kowtow to a $5 billion solar plant.

But don't let me embarrass you too much. I got a lot more of corruption going on here.
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Your post should be in the "conspiracy" forum because it is really out there.

Dry Lake Solar plant is in California and Rory Reid has no connection to it. The Center for Land Use Interpretation

The Chinese deal that Rory Reid actually was involved in was canceled last year. Company dumps big Laughlin solar project, says market won

Clark County purchased the grazing rights from the BLM in 1998 and removed the land covered from the local allotment of grazing lands Roundup of Trespassing Cattle Begins in Nevada Desert


You may have "a lot more of corruption going on" but so far you are batting 0.000
 
Dayton3 said:
I'm not all that sympathetic to the guy. His cattle are grazing on federal government land (which technically belongs to all of us). This is not some kind of eminent domain abuse situation like other govt. land grabs. He wants to run his cattle on federal land, pay the fees. They aren't very high compared to what a private land market would be.
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Precisely. This appears to me to be a case of a cattle rancher who thinks the law doesn't apply to him. A law he's been ignoring since 1998.
 
Kobie said:
Precisely. This appears to me to be a case of a cattle rancher who thinks the law doesn't apply to him. A law he's been ignoring since 1998.
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The BLM sold the leasing rights to this land to Clark County in 1998 and, despite numerous attempts, Congress has yet to declare the Gold Butte federal land. Given those two facts, the only jurisdiction the BLM has is what Clarke County and the State of Nevada says they do. The federal government lost its "right" to collect on those lands when it sold the leasing rights So why should he pay the federal government a dime?
 
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