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Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

Conservative said:
How exactly do you know it isn't a fact? How many lies does this Administration have to tell your or how many inaccurate estimates does the CBO have to give before you stop believing what you are told and do your own DD? How many changes has Obama made to the Congressional Law passed and how accurate has his predictions been? Why should any business believe what they are being told by this Administration. Don't expect an answer but have to ask?
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Believers are not easily swayed by facts.
 
Grant said:
Believers are not easily swayed by facts.
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...words cannot describe my amazement at the mental gymnastics some people in this thread are doing.
 
Slyfox696 said:
...words cannot describe my amazement at the mental gymnastics some people in this thread are doing.
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Yep, the left is good at putting lipstick on a pig while ignoring when the lipstick is removed it is still a pig
 
Conservative said:
Yep, the left is good at putting lipstick on a pig while ignoring when the lipstick is removed it is still a pig
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They still believe, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that the rise of the oceans began to slow and the planet began to heal when he was elected. Words mean little to leftists, it's their feelings that matter. There is nothing Barrack Obama can say or do that a leftist would see as stupid or wrong.
 
Conservative said:
Yep, the left is good at putting lipstick on a pig while ignoring when the lipstick is removed it is still a pig
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I only see one group of people calling statistics from non-partisan groups lies with zero evidence to support them and using that to criticize others for not being swayed by facts.

Mental gymnastics.
 
Conservative said:
How exactly do you know it isn't a fact? How many lies does this Administration have to tell your or how many inaccurate estimates does the CBO have to give before you stop believing what you are told and do your own DD? How many changes has Obama made to the Congressional Law passed and how accurate has his predictions been? Why should any business believe what they are being told by this Administration. Don't expect an answer but have to ask?
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Here's a link that disputes the jobs report. If you read teh link, you will note that he backs up the argument with facts.


Another Fraudulent Jobs Report By Paul Craig Roberts
"
"Information Clearing House - The March payroll jobs report released April 4 claims 192,000 new private sector jobs.
Here is what John Williams has to say about the claim:
“The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) deliberately publishes its seasonally-adjusted historical payroll-employment and household-survey (unemployment) data so that the numbers are neither consistent nor comparable with current headline reporting. The upside revisions to the January and February monthly jobs gains, and the relatively strong March payroll showing, reflected nothing more than concealed, favorable shifts in underlying seasonal factors, hidden by the lack of consistent BLS reporting. In like manner, consistent month-to-month changes in the unemployment rate or labor force simply are not knowable, because the BLS cloaks the consistent and comparable numbers.”
Here is what Dave Kranzler has to say: “the employment report is probably the most deceptively fraudulent report produced by the Government.”
As I have pointed out for a decade, the “New Economy” jobs that we were promised in exchange for our manufacturing jobs and tradable professional service jobs that were offshored have never shown up. The transnational corporations and their hired shills among economists lied to us. Not even a jobs report as deceptive and fraudulent as the BLS payroll jobs report can hide the fact that Congress, the White House, and the American people have sat sucking their thumbs while corporations maximized profits for the one percent at the expense of everyone else in the United States.
Let’s look at where the alleged jobs are. The BLS jobs report says that 28,400 jobs were created in March in wholesale and retail sales. March is the month that Macy’s, Sears, JC Penny, Staples, Radio Shack, Office Depot, and other retailers announced combined closings of several thousand stores, but more retail clerks were hired.
The BLS payroll jobs report claims 57,000 jobs in “professional and business services.” Are these jobs for lawyers, accountants, architects, engineers, and managers? No. The combined new jobs for these middle class professional skills totaled 10,400. Employment services accounted for 42,000 of the jobs in “professional and business services” of which temporary help accounted for 28,500.
“Education and health services” accounted for 34,000 jobs or which ambulatory and home health care services accounted for 28,000 of the jobs.
The other old standby, waitresses and bartenders, accounted for 30,400 jobs. The number of Americans dependent on food stamps who cannot afford to go out to eat or to purchase a six-pack of beer has almost doubled, but the demand for restaurant meals and bar drinks keeps rising.
There you have it. This is America’s “New Economy.” If the jobs exist at all, they consist of lowly paid, largely part-time employment that fails to produce enough income to prevent the food stamp rolls from doubling.
Without growth in consumer income, there is no growth in aggregate consumer demand. Offshoring jobs also offshores the income associated with the jobs, resulting in the decline in the domestic consumer market. The US transnational corporations, pursuing profits in the short-run, are destroying their long-run consumer base. The transnational corporations are also destroying the outlook for US universities, as it makes no sense to incur large student loan debt when job prospects are poor. The corporations are also destroying US leadership in innovation as US corporations increasingly become marketeers of foreign-made goods and services.
As I predicted in 2004, the US will have a third world work force in 20 years.
The unemployment figures are as deceptive as the employment figures. The headline
unemployment rate of 6.7% does not include discouraged workers. When discouraged
workers are included among the unemployed, the US rate of unemployment is 3.4 times higher than the announced rate.
How many times has John Williams written his report? How many times have I written this article? Yet the government continues to issue false reports, and the presstitute financial media continues to ask no questions.
The US, once a land of opportunity, has been transformed into an aristocratic economy in which income and wealth are concentrated at the very top. The highly skewed concentration at the top is the result of jobs offshoring, which transformed Americans’ salaries and wages into bonuses for executives and capital gains for owners, and financial deregulation, which produced financial collapse and the Federal Reserve’s bailout of “banks too big too fail.” The trillions of dollars of new money created by the Federal Reserve has produced massive inflation of stock prices, making owners even richer.
Sooner or later the dollar’s value will suffer as a result of the massive creation of new dollars. When that occurs, the import-dependent American population will suffer a traumatic drop in living standards. The main cost of the bank bailout has yet to hit.
As I write I cannot think of one thing in the entire areas of foreign and domestic policy that the US government has told the truth about in the 21st century. Just as Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, Iran has no nukes, Assad did not use chemical weapons, and Putin did not invade and annex Crimea, the jobs numbers are fraudulent, the unemployment rate is deceptive, the inflation measures are understated, and the GDP growth rate is overstated. Americans live in a matrix of total lies.
What can Americans do? Elections are pointless. Presidents, Senators, and US Representatives represent the interest groups that provide their campaign funds, not the voters. In two decisions, the Republican Supreme Court has made it legal for corporations to purchase the government. Those who own the government will decide what it does, not those who vote.
All Americans can do is to accept the serfdom imposed on them or take to the streets and stay in the streets despite being clubbed, tasered, arrested, and shot by the police, who protect the power structure, not the public.
In America, nothing is done for the public. But everything is done to the public."
 
Your Star said:
Don't know why anyone would rage; more jobs is a good thing.
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That isn't the problem - the problem is the formula the government uses to calculate these statistics - their formula is blatantly flawed.

However it doesn't even stop there - the media that reports this data is dishonest as well. The media will report that 500,000 jobs were created but they will not report that 750,000 jobs were lost - which if we use realistic math and not that Common Core bull**** would equate into a 250,000 net loss on jobs.

Also, I find it amazing how hardly anyone even does the math and cant see the flaws here - they just assume that "jobs created" is somehow a net gain when it's anything but. "Jobs created" is just that - "jobs created."

Also, in what universe does the government "create" jobs? unless the government is employing people at record numbers they aren't creating ****!

To make matters worse this administration is anti-business and anti-capitalist which in turn doesn't bode well for anyone who want's to start a business - the environment is just too unfriendly to their desires.
 
Slyfox696 said:
No, the economy was +192,000 jobs. When you take all the jobs which were added and remove the ones which were subtracted, you're left with 192,000.

The reason for the unemployment rate not changing is generally due to a change in the number of people in the labor force (in this case, more people in the labor force).
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Or less people looking for work. The government has no way of tracking people who aren't filing for unemployment.
 
danielpalos said:
Yes. Why complicate things for our elected representatives who should be enjoying, their cushy part-time jobs.
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Because it would be just as phony as the numbers we get from Obamabots today.....If you can't find a job, and exhaust your UE benefits, then you're employed? That is just asinine.
 
j-mac said:
Because it would be just as phony as the numbers we get from Obamabots today.....If you can't find a job, and exhaust your UE benefits, then you're employed? That is just asinine.
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Nope; it is merely your lack of understanding of the concepts involved that is asinine, in any at-will employment State.
 
danielpalos said:
Nope; it is merely your lack of understanding of the concepts involved that is asinine, in any at-will employment State.
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daniel, let me ask you something, are people who are discouraged and drop out of the labor market unemployed? How about people whose 2 years of unemployment benefits have run out, are they unemployed? What effect does discouraged workers have on the official unemployment rate? You say j-make lacks understanding, please show us yours?
 
Conservative said:
daniel, let me ask you something, are people who are discouraged and drop out of the labor market unemployed? How about people whose 2 years of unemployment benefits have run out, are they unemployed? What effect does discouraged workers have on the official unemployment rate? You say j-make lacks understanding, please show us yours?
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Nope; it is merely your lack of understanding of the concepts involved that is asinine, in any at-will employment State.
 
A differential of +930,000 jobs from March of 2009, almost a million.
Imagine how the GOP would spin this in a positive way if said change happened on their watch .
 
NIMBY said:
A differential of +930,000 jobs from March of 2009, almost a million.
Imagine how the GOP would spin this in a positive way if said change happened on their watch .
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What bothers me is not the hypocrisy of political parties (it's to be expected) but the willingness of the sheep to believe the hypocrisy.

This thread is a perfect example. There are people in this thread who are baselessly calling statistics lie because they are not convenient for their political party and then use their baseless allegations to insult others who (and this is the part which gets me) are actually using the facts to support their position. It's mind-blowing the mental gymnastics people will do to support their team.
 
Just a bit about how the stats are developed.
From the people that generate the stats:
Frame and sample selection

The LDB is the universe from which CES draws the establishment survey sample. The LDB contains data on the roughly 9 million U.S. business establishments covered by UI, representing nearly all elements of the U.S. economy. The Quarterly Census of Employment and Wages (QCEW) program collects these data from employers on a quarterly basis in cooperation with Labor Market Information Agencies (LMIs). The LDB contains employment and wage information from employers, as well as name, address, and location information. It also contains identification information such as UI account number and reporting unit or worksite number.

The LDB contains records of all employers covered under the UI tax system. That system covers 97 percent of all employment within the scope of CES in the 50 States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands. There are a few sections of the economy that are not covered by the QCEW, including the self-employed, unpaid family workers, railroads, religious organizations, small agricultural employers, and elected officials. Data for employers generally are reported at the worksite level. Employers who have multiple establishments within a State usually report data for each individual establishment. The LDB tracks establishments over time and links them from quarter to quarter.

The Total private and Government portions of the CES sample are selected using two different methods. Private establishments in the CES sample frame are stratified by State, industry, and size. Stratification groups population members together for the purpose of sample allocation and selection. The strata, or groups, are composed of homogeneous units. With 13 industries (treating Manufacturing as one industry and not including Government) and 8 size classes, there are 104 total allocation cells per State. The sampling rate for each stratum is determined through a method known as optimum allocation. Optimum allocation minimizes variance at a fixed cost or minimizes cost for a fixed variance. Under the CES probability design, a fixed number of sample units for each State is distributed across the allocation strata in such a way as to minimize the overall variance, or sampling error, of the total State employment level. The number of sample units in the CES probability sample was fixed according to available program resources. The optimum allocation formula places more sample in cells for which data cost less to collect, cells that have more units, and cells that have a larger variance.

The CES Government sample is not part of the program's probability-based design. CES is able to achieve a very high level of universe employment coverage in Government industries by obtaining full payroll employment counts for many government agencies, eliminating the need for a probability-based sample design. Government estimates are combined with the Total private estimates to obtain values for Total nonfarm.

Annual sample selection helps keep the CES survey current with respect to employment from business births and business deaths. In addition, the updated universe files provide the most recent information about industry, size, and metropolitan area designation. Each year the CES sample is drawn from the first quarter Longitudinal Database (LDB) data in the fall of that year. A birth update is added in the early summer from the third quarter of the previous year. CES enrollment efforts begin immediately after a sample is selected, and collection generally begins in the first month after enrollment. At least a full year passes between the sample draw and sample implementation. CES produces estimates using the new sample units for all industries for the first time in early February of each year. Starting with January estimation, the new sample is used for the first time to estimate November third preliminary estimates of the previous year, December second preliminary estimates of the previous year, and January to October of the current year’s first, second, and third release estimates. The same sample is used for November first and second preliminary and December first preliminary estimates of that year.

After all out-of-scope records are removed, the sampling frame is separated into allocation cells. Within each allocation cell, units are grouped by metropolitan statistical area (MSA), and these MSAs are sorted by the size of the MSA, defined as the number of UI accounts in that MSA. As the sampling rate is uniform across the entire allocation cell, implicit stratification by MSA ensures that a proportional number of units are sampled from each MSA. Some MSAs may have too few UI accounts in the allocation cell; these MSAs are collapsed and treated as a single MSA.

Permanent Random Numbers (PRNs) are assigned to all UI accounts on the sampling frame. As new units appear on the frame, random numbers are assigned to those units as well. As records are linked across time, the PRN is carried forward in the linkage. Within each selection cell, the units are sorted by PRN, and units are selected according to the specified sample selection rate. The number of units selected randomly from each selection cell is equal to the product of the sample selection rate and the number of eligible units in the cell plus any carryover from the prior selection cell. The result is rounded to the nearest whole number. Carryover is defined as the amount that is rounded up or down to the nearest whole number.

As a result of the cost and workload associated with enrolling new sample units, all units remain in the sample a minimum of two years. To ensure all units meet this minimum requirement, CES has established a "swapping in" procedure. The procedure allows units to be swapped into the sample that were newly selected during the previous sample year and not reselected as part of the current probability sample. The procedure removes a unit within the same selection cell and places the newly selected unit from the previous year back into the sample. Approximately 68 percent of the CES sample for the private industries overlaps from the previous sample to the current sample.

That is enough for here. There is more available. I guess that some don't think they know what they are doing. But that is because they don't like the answer. It used to happen to me at work, people that didn't like my answers told others that I didn't know what I was doing.
 
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What has really been amazing lately is the extent a certain lean/party will go to to call every
statistic coming from a Link a lie or not trustworthy based on the lean of the link.

I view this as calling someone's quotes a lie due to which site they're on, since we know they won't be on others.
Slyfox696 said:
What bothers me is not the hypocrisy of political parties (it's to be expected) but the willingness of the sheep to believe the hypocrisy.

This thread is a perfect example. There are people in this thread who are baselessly calling statistics lie because they are not convenient for their political party and then use their baseless allegations to insult others who (and this is the part which gets me) are actually using the facts to support their position. It's mind-blowing the mental gymnastics people will do to support their team.
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Slyfox696 said:
What bothers me is not the hypocrisy of political parties (it's to be expected) but the willingness of the sheep to believe the hypocrisy.

This thread is a perfect example. There are people in this thread who are baselessly calling statistics lie because they are not convenient for their political party and then use their baseless allegations to insult others who (and this is the part which gets me) are actually using the facts to support their position. It's mind-blowing the mental gymnastics people will do to support their team.
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Can you provide a link to unbiased, factual proof that had the government/Fed just left the economy 'alone' (no bail outs, QE's, mark-to-market rule changes, stimulus, etc.) that the U-3 would not be much lower then it is?

Yes or no?

No other answer will be acknowledged (I am not wasting my time with questions/excuses for my simple question) except with a 'So you refuse to answer my simple question. Noted. Good day.'


Btw - I am neither dem or rep.
 
Slyfox696 said:
Or maybe they said results do matter and they preferred the Democrat's results to the results of the last Republican we had as President?
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Obama votes preferred getting unemployment extended... they dont want that sugar daddy Obama to cut off their Oprah time..
 
danielpalos said:
Nope; it is merely your lack of understanding of the concepts involved that is asinine, in any at-will employment State.
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Since you are so passionate about the issue and call everything we say asinine how about explaining it to us? Would love to be educated by a liberal rather than just having you say something that you cannot back up
 
NIMBY said:
What has really been amazing lately is the extent a certain lean/party will go to to call every
statistic coming from a Link a lie or not trustworthy based on the lean of the link.
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But ONLY because of the nature of the statistic. I fully suspect when those same sites were posting statistics which were of benefit to their party, those people were all too happy to use those sources as legitimate sources.
DA60 said:
Can you provide a link to unbiased, factual proof that had the government/Fed just left the economy 'alone' (no bail outs, QE's, mark-to-market rule changes, stimulus, etc.) that the U-3 would not be much lower then it is?
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Can I provide a link to prove something which never happened? I'm pretty damn amazing, but even I can't produce data to something which never happened.

Your question is ridiculous.

No other answer will be acknowledged
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You ask a ridiculous question which has absolutely no way to be answered and then say no other answer will be acknowledged? Do you really not see the utter absurdity of this?

Nevermind, don't answer that. I've debated with you before, I fully expect you to not see the absurdity of your question.
Travis007 said:
Obama votes preferred getting unemployment extended... they dont want that sugar daddy Obama to cut off their Oprah time..
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I've encountered you on these forums a couple of times now and at no point have you added anything of value to the conversation. The only time you even attempted to debate, you made a provably false statement on which I corrected you.
 
Conservative said:
daniel, let me ask you something, are people who are discouraged and drop out of the labor market unemployed?
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No. Because they are no longer participating in the labor market. Same for other marginally attached, retires, and anyone else who leaves the labor force.

How about people whose 2 years of unemployment benefits have run out, are they unemployed?
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It depends on whether or not they're still looking for work. Benefits have nothing to do with labor force classification...less than half counted as unemployed receive benefits.
What effect does discouraged workers have on the official unemployment rate? You say j-make lacks understanding, please show us yours?
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they lower the labor force number same as anyone else leaving the labor force
 
Slyfox696 said:
But ONLY because of the nature of the statistic. I fully suspect when those same sites were posting statistics which were of benefit to their party, those people were all too happy to use those sources as legitimate sources.
Can I provide a link to prove something which never happened? I'm pretty damn amazing, but even I can't produce data to something which never happened.

Your question is ridiculous.

You ask a ridiculous question which has absolutely no way to be answered and then say no other answer will be acknowledged? Do you really not see the utter absurdity of this?

Nevermind, don't answer that. I've debated with you before, I fully expect you to not see the absurdity of your question.
I've encountered you on these forums a couple of times now and at no point have you added anything of value to the conversation. The only time you even attempted to debate, you made a provably false statement on which I corrected you.
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Youve yet to correct me.....you want to review the U-6 numbers.. most rational people understand Obama has no want for the economy to improve.. enslavement to hand outs and glass ceilings is Obama's game.... we all know DemLibs need victims to save thats their voting block... Obama is an Alinksy clone...

you want to review the U-6 number?
 
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