FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

Appalling waste of time and taxpayer dollars over what is probably BS.

Soupnazi630 said:

According to the fourth amendmen they may not do this without a warrant.

Also according to the fourth the reasons they give are not justifications for issueing a warant.

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That isn't true. It doesn't say a warrant is required, it states the conditions to issue a warrant. The protection is against the definition of "reasonable." A warrant is a tool that orders the action. A warrant isn't always required.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Now I do see this as unreasonable as unless there is proof he obtained these improperly, then they are his property.

sawyerloggingon said:

It is illegal to treasure hunt indian artifacts and the fact that this guy has so many is suspicious. Years ago we were camping in an alcove in Utah which was very cool. It had petroglyph's on the back wall and it was a kick to spend a few nights in an ancient dwelling. While digging a fire pit I cut a small piece of what looked like fishing line that I assumed some other camper left there as trash at some point. Turns out it was an alarm to guard against artifact hunters and it wasn't long until a BLM cop showed up. I had some splainin to do.:lol:

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Suspicion is not probable cause.

Maybe he had an Indian friend he inherited them from. Unless you know the facts... speculation and suspicion is not probable cause.

Lord of Planar said:

That isn't true. It doesn't say a warrant is required, it states the conditions to issue a warrant. The protection is against the definition of "reasonable." A warrant is a tool that orders the action. A warrant isn't always required.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Now I do see this as unreasonable as unless there is proof he obtained these improperly, then they are his property.

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You are essentially correct. Absent probable cause to believe some were illegally obtained, this is a "fishing expedition"... and those are not supposed to fly...

Superfly said:

If that's the case, every treasure hunter in the entire world has just been rendered unemployed, and a potential felon.

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Superfly said:

I don't consider it theft if the old guy has been walking around, picking up arrowheads off the ground for the last 80 years. If that's the case, every treasure hunter in the entire world has just been rendered unemployed, and a potential felon.

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Y'all want protected classes that can make the government jump everytime they get butt hurt about something. Well, here ya go.

hado117 said:

If i am 25% native american do 25% of the artifacts belong to me?

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No, the government owns it. The government owns everything.

When does something become "an artifact?"

People have been making and selling stuff for thousands of years. Where is the presumption it was "dug up?" Maybe it has just been sold and give away for hundreds or thousands of years.

Remember, the Supreme Court has ruled that if the government seizes ANYTHING from you, unless you can prove at your burden of costs that you did NOT obtain it illegally it's the governments. Even then, you are out tens of thousands or more in attorney fees just to try to get it back.

Hell, a rusting out 1950s abandoned mobile home shot full of holes and all the windows busted out could be called "a Native American artifact over half a century old."

Lord of Planar said:

Suspicion is not probable cause.

Maybe he had an Indian friend he inherited them from. Unless you know the facts... speculation and suspicion is not probable cause.

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Like I said I don't know the facts and neither do you because the article in the OP was a joke. Journalist these days do not follow the age old rules of journalism. Who, what, when, where, why.

soot said:

You may not care, and you may do as you please.

But the way you're talking it sounds like you have a right, by law, to do those things.

And most likely, almost certainly, you don't.

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My point is that most of these cultural demands by these tribes are ridiculous. I am not advocating raiding burial grounds on public land but that being said---- well, they need to grow up a little. When was the last time you saw Norwegians and Swedes getting their panties in a bunch because someone discovered an ancient Viking burial ground? My point is that some of these folks are acting silly and infantile. Besides, some of these "folks" are not even full or even half native American. Being able to say you are 1/16th Lakota does not make you Chief Sitting Bull.

soot said:

[financial compensation] That's another matter entirely, and I don't entirely disagree with your sentiment.

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Glad to hear that.