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Putin Calls Obama to Discuss Ukraine, White House Says

1750Texan

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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Mornin' T :2wave: .....that what I heard to. Also Lavrov pledged on Television that Russia would not move troops into the Ukraine. He also told people that Russia and the West were moving to closer positions upon the matter.

Putin is calling for the Federalization of the Ukraine.....and also throwing out the condition that Ukraine not join NATO. Which the EU and ourselves won't go for that.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Mornin' T :2wave: .....that what I heard to. Also Lavrov pledged on Television that Russia would not move troops into the Ukraine. He also told people that Russia and the West were moving to closer positions upon the matter.

Putin is calling for the Federalization of the Ukraine.....and also throwing out the condition that Ukraine not join NATO. Which the EU and ourselves won't go for that.

I could not read that article because it requires an account with NY Times. First of all, I think this confirms that Putin has no desire to seize further territory by force, and therefore the characterization of Putin as Hitler was a foolish comment by Hillary Clinton and others meant simply for domestic, political consumption. If HC actually plans to be president, this demonstrates, IMO, that she should not have the job. She will have to work with this person, and that's no good way to start.

Furthermore, we would likely not be at this point if we had not reneged on our promise to Gorbachev not to expand NATO. Instead, contrary to the vision that Gorbachev had in mind, the first thing we did was went around trumpeting to the world that we won the cold war. Therefore, when seen in that light, Putin had good reason to make the move that he did in Crimea to secure Russia's very vital interests there.

If Putin did indeed offer to pull back his troops in exchange for a no NATO pledge, we should take him up on that offer ASAP.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

I could not read that article because it requires an account with NY Times. First of all, I think this confirms that Putin has no desire to seize further territory by force, and therefore the characterization of Putin as Hitler was a foolish comment by Hillary Clinton and others meant simply for domestic, political consumption. If HC actually plans to be president, this demonstrates, IMO, that she should not have the job. She will have to work with this person, and that's no good way to start.

Furthermore, we would likely not be at this point if we had not reneged on our promise to Gorbachev not to expand NATO. Instead, contrary to the vision that Gorbachev had in mind, the first thing we did was went around trumpeting to the world that we won the cold war. Therefore, when seen in that light, Putin had good reason to make the move that he did in Crimea to secure Russia's very vital interests there.

If Putin did indeed offer to pull back his troops in exchange for a no NATO pledge, we should take him up on that offer ASAP.



Mornin' MSteel.
yo2.gif
Here I have some on it with what Lavrov was saying. Points out some other interesting points as well. I don't think the Eu nor the US will go for it now. They already signed some papers with the EU and are getting the Aid from the US and the IMF. Moreover earlier in the month when Ban Ki Moon went to Moscow.....back then Putin told him he would not move troops into the Ukraine.


Russia vows no Ukraine invasion as leaders seek solution.....

89089ce61a36380973e992310024057b67bb0fca.jpg


Russia on Saturday pledged it would not invade mainland Ukraine following its seizure of Crimea and said it favoured the ex-Soviet state becoming a federation as a way of defusing the crisis.

But telephone talks between Putin and US counterpart Barack Obama late on Friday were the latest sign of a slight lessening in tensions between Moscow and the West and a search for a mutual solution in what remains the worst East-West crisis since the Cold War.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov hinted at what were Moscow's main demands in the negotiations -- that Ukraine should be made into a federation and commit to not joining NATO, while order should be restored to the Ukrainian capital Kiev where protesters have thronged the city centre for half a year.

He said that the West was showing openness to Russia's idea of a federalised Ukraine.

"They are listening. I can say that a federation (for Ukraine) is far from being a forbidden word in our talks," Lavrov said. "To be honest, we do not see any other path forwards for the Ukrainian state other than federalisation."

"The Russian leader suggested examining possible steps of the international community to help stabilise the situation," the Kremlin said, adding the issue would be discussed by Lavrov and US counterpart John Kerry.....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-says-russia-must-move-back-troops-003508153.html?.tsrc=telkomsel
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Mornin' MSteel.
yo2.gif
Here I have some on it with what Lavrov was saying. Points out some other interesting points as well. I don't think the Eu nor the US will go for it now. They already signed some papers with the EU and are getting the Aid from the US and the IMF. Moreover earlier in the month when Ban Ki Moon went to Moscow.....back then Putin told him he would not move troops into the Ukraine.


Russia vows no Ukraine invasion as leaders seek solution.....

89089ce61a36380973e992310024057b67bb0fca.jpg


Russia on Saturday pledged it would not invade mainland Ukraine following its seizure of Crimea and said it favoured the ex-Soviet state becoming a federation as a way of defusing the crisis.

But telephone talks between Putin and US counterpart Barack Obama late on Friday were the latest sign of a slight lessening in tensions between Moscow and the West and a search for a mutual solution in what remains the worst East-West crisis since the Cold War.

Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov hinted at what were Moscow's main demands in the negotiations -- that Ukraine should be made into a federation and commit to not joining NATO, while order should be restored to the Ukrainian capital Kiev where protesters have thronged the city centre for half a year.

He said that the West was showing openness to Russia's idea of a federalised Ukraine.

"They are listening. I can say that a federation (for Ukraine) is far from being a forbidden word in our talks," Lavrov said. "To be honest, we do not see any other path forwards for the Ukrainian state other than federalisation."

"The Russian leader suggested examining possible steps of the international community to help stabilise the situation," the Kremlin said, adding the issue would be discussed by Lavrov and US counterpart John Kerry.....snip~

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-says-russia-must-move-back-troops-003508153.html?.tsrc=telkomsel

Hi MMC. Thanks for that. Well I'm relieved that it appears both sides are behaving in a mature cool-headed manner. I hope they continue in that spirit.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Hi MMC. Thanks for that. Well I'm relieved that it appears both sides are behaving in a mature cool-headed manner. I hope they continue in that spirit.

It might work out and the Ukraine gets the aid......Obama did tell the Georgians they wont be getting into NATO anytime soon. Although I think Poland will stay on alert.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Clearly, Putin is in his element, and making all the right moves.

Poor B'rack is getting embarrassed at every turn.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

"Hey Barack, I know I illegally sent troops into Crimea and forced annexation on them, but let's negotiate now that I'm unable to really go any further."

"Vlad, go f*** yourself. The sanctions ain't comin off til you learn your lesson"
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

One can only hope that the threats and posturing of the western nations have made this guy rethink his ambition. Perhaps Obama knew what he was doing (finally), and between him and the EU, as well as Russian power players hit by sanction we may avoid serious violence in the region.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

I could not read that article because it requires an account with NY Times. First of all, I think this confirms that Putin has no desire to seize further territory by force, and therefore the characterization of Putin as Hitler was a foolish comment by Hillary Clinton and others meant simply for domestic, political consumption. If HC actually plans to be president, this demonstrates, IMO, that she should not have the job. She will have to work with this person, and that's no good way to start.

Furthermore, we would likely not be at this point if we had not reneged on our promise to Gorbachev not to expand NATO. Instead, contrary to the vision that Gorbachev had in mind, the first thing we did was went around trumpeting to the world that we won the cold war. Therefore, when seen in that light, Putin had good reason to make the move that he did in Crimea to secure Russia's very vital interests there.

If Putin did indeed offer to pull back his troops in exchange for a no NATO pledge, we should take him up on that offer ASAP.

It also must be recognized that Crimea is predominantly Russian speaking, that Putin warned Bush he would "tear her apart" if the US tried to interfere in Ukraine affairs.

This is all of Washington's doing.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

You betcha ya' it is. Now we'll see what we're made of. We have an opportunity to negotiate a satisfactory settlement. We won't get everything we want, and neither will Russia; but we can't afford bright red lines on this.

Obama obviously scared Putin....


It is a brilliant move by Putin....holding out an olive branch to the Peace Prize recipient.

Show's who's got the moxie on the international scene.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

How do I know what? That dialog is better that troop movement...experience.

Better for me means more effective. So I disagree with you. Experience.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

It might work out and the Ukraine gets the aid......Obama did tell the Georgians they wont be getting into NATO anytime soon. Although I think Poland will stay on alert.

Well let's hope so. Poland is a done deal. The thing is this, the US has a lot of commitments around the world. Some of that stuff made sense in the post WWII era. It's a good question as to whether we should continue to extend ourselves in this way. For instance, do we really need to be responsible for the defense of Japan. Why can't they do it themselves? Just saying.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

"Hey Barack, I know I illegally sent troops into Crimea and forced annexation on them, but let's negotiate now that I'm unable to really go any further."

"Vlad, go f*** yourself. The sanctions ain't comin off til you learn your lesson"


Heya StringBean. :2wave: That's not exactly true. If Putin wanted to go further at this point. He could, and there isn't much anyone could do. Until after the fact. Just sayin.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Well let's hope so. Poland is a done deal. The thing is this, the US has a lot of commitments around the world. Some of that stuff made sense in the post WWII era. It's a good question as to whether we should continue to extend ourselves in this way. For instance, do we really need to be responsible for the defense of Japan. Why can't they do it themselves? Just saying.

Their working on it.....currently Japan's Coast Guard out numbers the Entire British Navy. A lot of that has been the West influencing the Japanese with other alternatives. Until the last decade. Now we don't mind them building themselves up.....Right there in China and Russia's backyard.

I did notice the Russians didn't say anything about making any other moves tho. Plus we have seen whats goin' on with Estonia and Moldova.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

It also must be recognized that Crimea is predominantly Russian speaking, that Putin warned Bush he would "tear her apart" if the US tried to interfere in Ukraine affairs.

This is all of Washington's doing.

Indeed. It boggles the mind that they were actually surprised at what Putin did. These people are supposed to be smart, but sometimes they make me wonder.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

"Hey Barack, I know I illegally sent troops into Crimea and forced annexation on them, but let's negotiate now that I'm unable to really go any further."

"Vlad, go f*** yourself. The sanctions ain't comin off til you learn your lesson"

And after Putin stopped laughing, he told Obama how the cow eats the cabbage.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

You betcha ya' it is. Now we'll see what we're made of. We have an opportunity to negotiate a satisfactory settlement. We won't get everything we want, and neither will Russia; but we can't afford bright red lines on this.

Obama has nothing to negotiate with. Putin holds all the cards. Putin is going to tell Obama what he wants and Obama is going to give it to him.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Obama obviously scared Putin....


It is a brilliant move by Putin....holding out an olive branch to the Peace Prize recipient.

Show's who's got the moxie on the international scene.

Hi F&L,
I think the EU had their eyes on the Ukraine for a lot of reasons, some legit some not so much. But I also think our government has had way too much involvement in this whole ordeal. You know if the EU really wants something, you would think they would at least beef up their military beforehand or at least the ruling class would cough up the needed dough. Not one country in the EU has a decent military force at present. I just read that Japan's Coast Guard is larger than the UK's military. They can't afford one because they are up to their eyeballs in debt providing that socialist dream to everyone. Countries are also being overrun by Islamists. Places like the UK and France are having a hell of a time with uprisings and they can't sufficiently deal with let alone defend themselves of an invasion. And before Obama is out of power our military will be well on its way looking much like any country in Europe. So if things continue on the course they have been, Europe (or a good portion of it) has a good chance of being ruled by heads, Imperial Russia or tails Imperial Islam if they don't get their **** together. Because the way things are going in this country, we aren't going to be able to nor do I think the people have the stomach to spill blood for them anytime soon. After all, under Obama we have been slowly pulling back our troops in the region and downsizing our own capability.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Furthermore, we would likely not be at this point if we had not reneged on our promise to Gorbachev not to expand NATO. Instead, contrary to the vision that Gorbachev had in mind, the first thing we did was went around trumpeting to the world that we won the cold war. Therefore, when seen in that light, Putin had good reason to make the move that he did in Crimea to secure Russia's very vital interests there.

If Putin did indeed offer to pull back his troops in exchange for a no NATO pledge, we should take him up on that offer ASAP.

It's encouraging to see that there are some who actually knows history.

When the Soviet Union collapsed bringing an end to the Cold War it was embarrassing as an American how many were thumping their chest and yelling we are number one. They were the same people who demanded a "peace dividend" while many of them actually surrendered during the 1970's and refused to fight against communist expansion during the Cold War, while trying to take claim for winning the Cold War.

All that was accomplished with all of the chest thumping was pouring salt on the Bear's wounds.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Obama has nothing to negotiate with. Putin holds all the cards. Putin is going to tell Obama what he wants and Obama is going to give it to him.

Putin is holding the trump card.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Well let's hope so. Poland is a done deal. The thing is this, the US has a lot of commitments around the world. Some of that stuff made sense in the post WWII era. It's a good question as to whether we should continue to extend ourselves in this way. For instance, do we really need to be responsible for the defense of Japan. Why can't they do it themselves? Just saying.

The Obama administration has already thrown Japan under the bus.

When China established the "East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone" covering most of the sea and the skies over the Japans Senkaku Islands, Obama sent his number one foreign affairs expert, bumbling VP Joe Biden to China to set China straight.

Have no idea if Biden bowed from the waist to the Chinese but Biden made it clear, that the USA would concede and recognize China's "East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone."

Japan took notice of Obama back in 2009 and recognized that Japan could no longer depend on the USA and have been building up their military. No longer a defense security force but a military that can go on the offense. Japan launched their first aircraft carrier since WW ll just last year.
 
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