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Putin Calls Obama to Discuss Ukraine, White House Says
- Thread starter 1750Texan
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?
How much of Europe's downsizing of their militaries is the result of NATO? Since the treaty, it seems to me that all countries involved have pooled their sovereignty and allowed Brussels to make the rules and regulations and with each year that passes snatches a little bit more sovereignty from every member. So often things start out like a feel good idea but grows into a power that like everything can become corrupt. What happens when NATO is run by a group of people with an agenda that members are at odds with? Or those things they sell as being justified under the guise of peace and humanitarian aid when they do the exact opposite? IMO, it is derelict of any European country to become complacent in protecting their own people from invasion of another. They do not budget like they should for the military. Maybe because they think under the treaty of NATO that their "friends" will be forced to pick up the slack? Hardly fair to their friends who may have taken care of business and out of irresponsibility of other members are forced into a position of getting involved in things most in their countries don't want to be a part of. Just a thought....
Hi DDD,
How much of Europe's downsizing of their militaries is the result of NATO? Since the treaty, it seems to me that all countries involved have pooled their sovereignty and allowed Brussels to make the rules and regulations and with each year that passes snatches a little bit more sovereignty from every member. So often things start out like a feel good idea but grows into a power that like everything can become corrupt. What happens when NATO is run by a group of people with an agenda that members are at odds with? Or those things they sell as being justified under the guise of peace and humanitarian aid when they do the exact opposite? IMO, it is derelict of any European country to become complacent in protecting their own people from invasion of another. They do not budget like they should for the military. Maybe because they think under the treaty of NATO that their "friends" will be forced to pick up the slack? Hardly fair to their friends who may have taken care of business and out of irresponsibility of other members are forced into a position of getting involved in things most in their countries don't want to be a part of. Just a thought....
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?
Let me begin stating I'm no Hillary supporter. However, if you think there are no similarities between Putin and Hitler then complete a Venn Diagram, see how they are alike, and get back to me.
Let me begin stating I'm no Hillary supporter. However, if you think there are no similarities between Putin and Hitler then complete a Venn Diagram, see how they are alike, and get back to me.
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?
Right. We need a war real quick or we will forget how it's done. It's been over 10 years since we invaded anyone.
Right. We need a war real quick or we will forget how it's done. It's been over 10 years since we invaded anyone.
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?
You're correct that Japan has launched and are operating three carriers, Hyūga, Ise and the Izumo. Japan for political reasons classify these ships as destroyers but Janes, China and most other navies classify them as carriers or helicopter carriers but they could operate AV-8 Harriers or F-35 B attack fighters. But for right now, they are ASW carriers. If you were to operate AV-8 Harriers or F-35 B from their decks they would be able to conduct strike missions.
It's like Japan's Kongo class destroyers, they are actually cruisers but for political reasons Japan classifies them as destroyers. The Kongo class Aegis destroyers are comparable to the U.S. Navy's Arleigh Burke destroyers.
The Soviet/Russia and China's Kiev class carriers are classified by Janes and most navies as carriers but in my opinion and there are more than a few on the DP who call them cruisers. The Kiev class carriers having surface warfare capabilities being armed with the SS-N-12 anti ship supersonic Mach 2.5 (2,000 lb. warhead) super carrier killer missiles.
The Soviets designed these carriers not to be used as strike carriers but they could be used as strike carriers. They were used to deny NATO ASW forces access to the Soviet ballistic missile submarine bastions. Primary AA against P-3 aircraft, hunting down and killing NATO attack subs and sinking American super carriers.
No one knows how China will use their carriers. Sea Lane control, strike, ASW, access denial, no one knows yet. I don't think China knows yet but I bet it will be access denial. The question is, has China kept the supercarrier anti-ship supersonic anti-ship missiles ?
You're correct that Japan has launched and are operating three carriers, Hyūga, Ise and the Izumo. Japan for political reasons classify these ships as destroyers but Janes, China and most other navies classify them as carriers or helicopter carriers but they could operate AV-8 Harriers or F-35 B attack fighters. But for right now, they are ASW carriers. If you were to operate AV-8 Harriers or F-35 B from their decks they would be able to conduct strike missions.
It's like Japan's Kongo class destroyers, they are actually cruisers but for political reasons Japan classifies them as destroyers. The Kongo class Aegis destroyers are comparable to the U.S. Navy's Arleigh Burke destroyers.
The Soviet/Russia and China's Kiev class carriers are classified by Janes and most navies as carriers but in my opinion and there are more than a few on the DP who call them cruisers. The Kiev class carriers having surface warfare capabilities being armed with the SS-N-12 anti ship supersonic Mach 2.5 (2,000 lb. warhead) super carrier killer missiles.
The Soviets designed these carriers not to be used as strike carriers but they could be used as strike carriers. They were used to deny NATO ASW forces access to the Soviet ballistic missile submarine bastions. Primary AA against P-3 aircraft, hunting down and killing NATO attack subs and sinking American super carriers.
No one knows how China will use their carriers. Sea Lane control, strike, ASW, access denial, no one knows yet. I don't think China knows yet but I bet it will be access denial. The question is, has China kept the supercarrier anti-ship supersonic anti-ship missiles ?
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?
I have to agree with you Iguanaman, we don't want to end up like Switzerland who's air force has 9 to 5 office hours and is closed on the weekends. :lamo
The Swiss air force: armed and dangerous, but only in office hours
It's no fly-by-night military outfit and it doesn't start work too early in the morning, either, as the recent Ethiopian Airlines hijack proved.
Wednesday 19 February 2014 02.00 EST
>" There's something almost too civilised about a country whose fighter jets stick to office hours (note to would-be terrorists and airspace infiltrators: they also stop for an hour and a half for lunch, and there's no service at weekends). It was French and Italian jet pilots who escorted the Ethiopian Airlines plane hijacked by its co-pilot safely to Geneva airport on Monday morning – because, at 6.02am, it was still nearly two hours before the Swiss air force came to work.
"Switzerland cannot intervene because its airbases are closed at night and on the weekend," spokesman Laurent Savary told AFP. "It's a question of budget and staffing."..."<
The Swiss air force: armed and dangerous, but only in office hours | World news | The Guardian
I have to agree with you Iguanaman, we don't want to end up like Switzerland who's air force has 9 to 5 office hours and is closed on the weekends. :lamo
The Swiss air force: armed and dangerous, but only in office hours
It's no fly-by-night military outfit and it doesn't start work too early in the morning, either, as the recent Ethiopian Airlines hijack proved.
Wednesday 19 February 2014 02.00 EST
>" There's something almost too civilised about a country whose fighter jets stick to office hours (note to would-be terrorists and airspace infiltrators: they also stop for an hour and a half for lunch, and there's no service at weekends). It was French and Italian jet pilots who escorted the Ethiopian Airlines plane hijacked by its co-pilot safely to Geneva airport on Monday morning – because, at 6.02am, it was still nearly two hours before the Swiss air force came to work.
"Switzerland cannot intervene because its airbases are closed at night and on the weekend," spokesman Laurent Savary told AFP. "It's a question of budget and staffing."..."<
The Swiss air force: armed and dangerous, but only in office hours | World news | The Guardian
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?
Yea we wouldn't want to be like the Swiss who haven't lost a man in combat for 100 years. We have too many able bodied young men, we need to weed some out in another pointless conflict. Not to mention all that excess cash we have laying around. I can't wait to build more schools and hospitals in Syria.
Yea we wouldn't want to be like the Swiss who haven't lost a man in combat for 100 years. We have too many able bodied young men, we need to weed some out in another pointless conflict. Not to mention all that excess cash we have laying around. I can't wait to build more schools and hospitals in Syria.
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DDD
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?
A very good one too. Hence there should be an EU army instead.
A very good one too. Hence there should be an EU army instead.
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?
Tell you what, you compile two accurate, exhaustive lists of the attributes of each of the two, and I'll see what I can do.
Μολὼν λαβέ;1063091689 said:
Tell you what, you compile two accurate, exhaustive lists of the attributes of each of the two, and I'll see what I can do.
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?
Anyone who discounts the fact that then President-elect Obama faced a multitude of problems on his first day in office are just being partisan and disingenuous. I'm not giving the man a pass. I'm just saying his plate was full from day one unlike any other president in modern history since the days of the Great Depression or WWII. Fact is the man had a deep recession and two wars to deal with the moment he stepped into the White House. The only two other Presidents I recall who took over a war from their predecessor since WWII were Truman and Nixon. So, yeah, I tend to cut Pres. Obama some slack on the military front. No, he hasn't done a masterful job, but you try changing tactics and/or strategies in a war you inherited and see how successful your new course of action proves to be. It's easy to talk crap when you're not the one with all the responsibility.
Uhhh, sure...they're called "economic sanctions" or "surgical strikes"...you know, like the one that lead to the death of UBL. :doh
Anyone who discounts the fact that then President-elect Obama faced a multitude of problems on his first day in office are just being partisan and disingenuous. I'm not giving the man a pass. I'm just saying his plate was full from day one unlike any other president in modern history since the days of the Great Depression or WWII. Fact is the man had a deep recession and two wars to deal with the moment he stepped into the White House. The only two other Presidents I recall who took over a war from their predecessor since WWII were Truman and Nixon. So, yeah, I tend to cut Pres. Obama some slack on the military front. No, he hasn't done a masterful job, but you try changing tactics and/or strategies in a war you inherited and see how successful your new course of action proves to be. It's easy to talk crap when you're not the one with all the responsibility.
Uhhh, sure...they're called "economic sanctions" or "surgical strikes"...you know, like the one that lead to the death of UBL. :doh
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?
Anyone who blames Bush for Obama's failure as a president is being partisan and disengenuous.
What's he waiting on to start the sanctions?
Surgical strike against what?
Anyone who blames Bush for Obama's failure as a president is being partisan and disengenuous.
What's he waiting on to start the sanctions?
Surgical strike against what?
