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UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

Rogue Valley

Rogue Valley

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Backing Ukraine’s territorial integrity, UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid
27 March 2014

In a vote that reaffirmed Ukraine’s unity and territorial integrity, the United Nations General Assembly today adopted a measure underscoring that the mid-March referendum in Crimea that led to the peninsula’s annexation by Russia “has no validity” and that the parties should “pursue immediately a peaceful resolution of the situation.”

By a vote of 100 in favour to 11 against, with 58 abstentions, the 193-member Assembly called on all States, international organizations and specialized agencies not to recognize any alteration of the status of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol on the basis of the 16 March referendum “and to refrain from any action or dealing that might be interpreted as recognizing any such altered status.”

The UN Security Council convened seven sessions on the situation in Ukraine, and at its eighth meeting, Russia, one of the 15-nation body’s permanent members, blocked action by voting against a draft resolution that would have urged countries not to recognize the results of the referendum in Crimea. The non-binding text adopted by the Assembly today contained similar language, underscoring that the referendum held in Crimea has no validity and cannot form the basis for any alteration of the status of Crimea or of the city of Sevastopol. It calls on all States to “desist and refrain” from actions aimed at the partial or total disruption of Ukraine’s national unity and territorial integrity, “including any attempts to modify Ukraine’s borders through the threat or use of force or other unlawful means.”
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United Nations News Centre - Backing Ukraine’s territorial integrity, UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

Putin's invasion and annexation of Crimea was illegal, illegitimate, and a flagrant violation of the UN Charter concerning territorial integrity and sovereignty.

As the UN votes were being tallied today, tens of thousands of Russian soldiers were poised on the border waiting for Putin's order to invade and occupy other regions of Ukraine.
 
I guess the UN hasn't noticed that that particular ship has already sailed.
 
Moon said:
Cool! I get to be the topic of this thread! Yay me!!
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Well I just couldn't help but notice how silly your post was. Of course the UN declared the referendum illegal after it happened, what do you expect them to do it before it happened? How do you condemn something that hasn't happened yet?
 
Wiseone said:
Well I just couldn't help but notice how silly your post was. Of course the UN declared the referendum illegal after it happened, what do you expect them to do it before it happened? How do you condemn something that hasn't happened yet?
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My point was that the UN's declaration is pointless, regardless of whether it was before, during or after Russia's action. All the UN has done is to highlight yet again how foolish and impotent they are.

Now quick...make me the topic again!
 
Moon said:
My point was that the UN's declaration is pointless, regardless of whether it was before, during or after Russia's action. All the UN has done is to highlight yet again how foolish and impotent they are.

Now quick...make me the topic again!
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I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by pretending that people never respond to other people's posts and disagree with them, but I'm trying to address what you said. Is that fair? Can I do that? Don't we do that on this forum I could have sworn we did.

Anyway to address your point, the UN declaring this illegal is not pointless because it is a step towards using the general assembly, since the Security Council can't be used, in this world forum to condemn and possibly pass resolutions against Russia.
 
Wiseone said:
I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by pretending that people never respond to other people's posts and disagree with them, but I'm trying to address what you said. Is that fair? Can I do that? Don't we do that on this forum I could have sworn we did.

Anyway to address your point, the UN declaring this illegal is not pointless because it is a step towards using the general assembly, since the Security Council can't be used, in this world forum to condemn and possibly pass resolutions against Russia.
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Be honest. When you posted this in response to my first post:

Wiseone said:
I guess you don't know that wasn't the point
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Your obvious intent was to take a swipe at me by claiming I'm ignorant as to what was going on. You did not address what I posted, but rather you addressed some caricature of me you'd created as a personal jab. If you disagreed with what I was saying, you would have pointed out why you disagreed. You didn't do that, you made it about me and the ignorance you wished I'd had.

Resolutions against Russia will likely be pointless, since they aren't going to give up Crimea without a fight. It's a weak response and will no doubt not go anywhere. Countries like Russia respond to shows of strength, and less so to the oft shoe dance of the diplomats. I think this is a face saving measure by the UN so they can claim they did "something".
 
apdst said:
The point was to confirm just how useless the UN really is.
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Moon said:
Be honest. When you posted this in response to my first post:


Your obvious intent was to take a swipe at me by claiming I'm ignorant as to what was going on. You did not address what I posted, but rather you addressed some caricature of me you'd created as a personal jab. If you disagreed with what I was saying, you would have pointed out why you disagreed. You didn't do that, you made it about me and the ignorance you wished I'd had.

Resolutions against Russia will likely be pointless, since they aren't going to give up Crimea without a fight. It's a weak response and will no doubt not go anywhere. Countries like Russia respond to shows of strength, and less so to the oft shoe dance of the diplomats. I think this is a face saving measure by the UN so they can claim they did "something".
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Well I took it to mean that moon was saying that it was too late for the UN to have done anything which is what the phrase "that ship has sailed" means, that you've taken action after the time to act has past. And I didn't believe that meant to imply that the whole organization was worthless as a whole, which is why I said how you could expect them to condemn anything until after its happened you can't exactly condemn future actions
 
Wiseone said:
Well I took it to mean that moon was saying that it was too late for the UN to have done anything which is what the phrase "that ship has sailed" means, that you've taken action after the time to act has past. And I didn't believe that meant to imply that the whole organization was worthless as a whole, which is why I said how you could expect them to condemn anything until after its happened you can't exactly condemn future actions
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Moon is exactly right, too.

The UN knew the vote was illegal before it even happened. Hey knew it was going to be rigged. And now, two weeks later, they bitch about.
 
I dunno why people think the UN even matters, it is nothing more than a talking forum, nothing really gets done in there. If the Ukrainians want something to be done then they will have to be the ones to go to war over Crimea.
 
Simpleχity;1063082116 said:
United Nations News Centre - Backing Ukraine’s territorial integrity, UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

Putin's invasion and annexation of Crimea was illegal, illegitimate, and a flagrant violation of the UN Charter concerning territorial integrity and sovereignty.

As the UN votes were being tallied today, tens of thousands of Russian soldiers were poised on the border waiting for Putin's order to invade and occupy other regions of Ukraine.
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Russia Considers UN Vote on Crimea Annexation a 'Victory'
Mar. 28 2014

"The result is rather satisfying for us as we have won a moral and a political victory," the Russian Ambassador to the UN Vitaly Churkin said, RIA Novosti reported. "It clearly shows that Russia is not isolated."
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The Moscow Times

Countries voting against the condemnation of Russia - Armenia, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, Nicaragua, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

Dictatorships and failed states. Quite a motley collection of toadies you have there Mr. Ambassador.
 
Simpleχity;1063083542 said:
The Moscow Times

Countries voting against the condemnation of Russia - Armenia, Belarus, Bolivia, Cuba, Nicaragua, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

Dictatorships and failed states. Quite a motley collection of toadies you have there Mr. Ambassador.
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Warsaw Pact that is not. Couldn't even get Iran on board.
 
Simpleχity;1063082116 said:
Putin's invasion and annexation of Crimea was illegal, illegitimate, and a flagrant violation of the UN Charter concerning territorial integrity and sovereignty.
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Crimea Resolution Backed by U.S. Barely Gets UN Majority - Businessweek

Ukraine and its backers won support from little more than half the members of the United Nations General Assembly to declare invalid Crimea’s referendum to secede, as Russia wielded diplomatic and economic pressure for members to abstain or cast no ballot.

The 193-member General Assembly voted 100-11 today to pass a nonbinding resolution describing the Crimean referendum as “having no validity” and calling on all states and agencies to not recognize “any alteration of the status” of Crimea. Fifty-eight members abstained, and 24 were absent.

While the resolution makes no mention of Russia for its invasion or annexation of the peninsula, the 46 sponsors sought to win a clear majority as a symbol of the country’s isolation from the international community. Instead, many members averted a commitment after aggressive lobbying by Russia.
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The UN is nothing more than it's member states. The UN is nothing more than it's member states. The UN is nothing more than it's member states. The UN is nothing more than it's member states. The UN is nothing more than it's member states.

It isn't an independent entity or actor. There are good reasons to dislike or have reservations about the UN as an institution and body but too many people give it agency. 'The UN' doesn't decide to do anything. The member states do.
 
Sherman123 said:
The UN is nothing more than it's member states. The UN is nothing more than it's member states. The UN is nothing more than it's member states. The UN is nothing more than it's member states. The UN is nothing more than it's member states.

It isn't an independent entity or actor. There are good reasons to dislike or have reservations about the UN as an institution and body but too many people give it agency. 'The UN' doesn't decide to do anything. The member states do.
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And that is why it's useless. Allowing dictatorships of various sorts to have entry (all of which regularly break the UN Charter) only gives them a forum to enhance their own interests and to legitimize their powers.

There should be a union composed only of legitimate democracies, closer to the G-8 (now G-7), with the Anglosphere as its model. http://explorersfoundation.org/archive/anglosphere_primer.pdf
 
I'm sure the Rhineland and the Sudetenland breathed a sigh of relief.
 
Grant said:
Perceived right to sovereignty? The Ukraine is an established member of the United Nations. What possible 'perceived' sovereignty are you referring to?

U.N. will treat Crimea as part of Ukraine, not Russia: U.S. | Reuters
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So was Yugoslavia. I see nothing about the someone drawing a line around a given territory that supersedes the right of those within it to self-determine. Not that I believe Putin's motives are particularly noble here. The whole issue could have been avoided in a referendum where both Ukraine (and by extension the west) and Russia had as little to do with the procedures as possible.
 
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Simpleχity;1063082116 said:
United Nations News Centre - Backing Ukraine’s territorial integrity, UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

Putin's invasion and annexation of Crimea was illegal, illegitimate, and a flagrant violation of the UN Charter concerning territorial integrity and sovereignty.

As the UN votes were being tallied today, tens of thousands of Russian soldiers were poised on the border waiting for Putin's order to invade and occupy other regions of Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Putin learned nothing from us. You have to say the Ukraine has WMDs or terrorists first.
 
I'm trying to get our local council to declare the rain invalid. That'll stop it!
 
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