Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

[MaggieD]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Look at the expenses

Alabama had $123,370,004 in expenses for a whopping profit of $399,837 or $4,703 per player

I do not believe it.​ Give me the books, and I'll have them showing a loss.

 

[Threegoofs]

so you think kids that can't afford college shouldn't go? you do realize that will only make the poverty level higher right?
a lot of these kids are taken out of very bad situations and given a second chance at life where their only other option is to join a gang or
engage in other criminal activity. some are the first kids in their family to attend college.

What a goofy argument.

Do you think kids who are brilliant at builiding sand castles should be given full scholarships?

Do you think kids who are really good at video games should be given full scholarships?


Of course you dont. Because that would be stupid. So why do you want a kid who can hit a ball with a bat to get a college scholarship?

If youre worried about kids who cant afford college and getting them to go, why dont you want to give scholarships to the smartest kids in high schools with needs instead of the most athletic kids in high schools?

 

[ludin]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

:rofl !!! You've GOT to be kidding me!

they won't drop football as much as they will stop offering scholarships and football will be an extracurricular activity.
if you want to play then you will have to pony up the tuition to get in and then you can play.

this will pretty much kill any chance some kids have at getting into college.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

they won't drop football as much as they will stop offering scholarships and football will be an extracurricular activity.
if you want to play then you will have to pony up the tuition to get in and then you can play.

this will pretty much kill any chance some kids have at getting into college.

That's not going to happen. They will continue offering football. They will continue making millions. And the NFL will help foot the bill by paying colleges for the farm team they've been operating at no-charge for years.

 

[ludin]

What a goofy argument.

Do you think kids who are brilliant at builiding sand castles should be given full scholarships?

Do you think kids who are really good at video games should be given full scholarships?


Of course you dont. Because that would be stupid. So why do you want a kid who can hit a ball with a bat to get a college scholarship?

If youre worried about kids who cant afford college and getting them to go, why dont you want to give scholarships to the smartest kids in high schools with needs instead of the most athletic kids in high schools?

why should a kid that can perform really well at something not be given a scholarship? it is in exchange for them performing.
smart kids that are in need have access to all kinds of scholarships and grants offered by the school.

so i guess they should be considered employee's of the school as well.

there is no such thing as sand castle building scholarships or video game scholarships. those are things that colleges do not offer.

 

[RiverDad]

Yes that is their revenue, but you have to realize that almost all sports revenue comes from football and basketball. the school offers scholarships for non-revenue sports as well.
that money isn't just for football but for the athletic department as a whole.

it has to pay for trainers, medical, coaches, buildings, travel, meals, scholarships etc ... for all sports teams.
the net revenue is a lot less.

College Presidents get paid for their work in raising donations. College Professors get paid for their work. College janitors get paid for their work.

These football players are bringing loads of cash into their schools. Heck, look at what football coaches get paid. If there are no football players, what worth does a coach bring to the school. Conversely, with no coach and a talented bench we can still have some semblance of a football game. The value generated comes primarily from the players but the coach captures a huge part of that.

I'm all for players bargaining to capture a larger share of the pie for themselves, for it is through their efforts that the rest of the university benefits.

 

[ludin]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

That's not going to happen. They will continue offering football. They will continue making millions. And the NFL will help foot the bill by paying colleges for the farm team they've been operating at no-charge for years.

the NFL doesn't pay colleges anything that is a violation of the NCAA rules and unless you want to have your team suspended for years at a time then this doesn't occur.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

the NFL doesn't pay colleges anything that is a violation of the NCAA rules and unless you want to have your team suspended for years at a time then this doesn't occur.

Then perhaps they can't pay their coaches $13 million a year.

 

[ludin]

College Presidents get paid for their work in raising donations. College Professors get paid for their work. College janitors get paid for their work.

These football players are bringing loads of cash into their schools. Heck, look at what football coaches get paid. If there are no football players, what worth does a coach bring to the school. Conversely, with no coach and a talented bench we can still have some semblance of a football game. The value generated comes primarily from the players but the coach captures a huge part of that.

I'm all for players bargaining to capture a larger share of the pie for themselves, for it is through their efforts that the rest of the university benefits.

they do get paid.

1. they get a full scholarship that covers all classes, books room and board. that alone is 20-40k+ depending on what school they go to.
2. They have access to a top notch training gym. that is worth hundreds.
3. they have access to free tutors if they need them.
4. They have access to the NFL.

There are other benefits that they receive as well. all of this is ranging into the thousands and thousands of dollars.

bargain for what? their whole college experience depends on them being students. if they are not students and do not make the grades then they do not get to play football.

 

[ludin]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Then perhaps they can't pay their coaches $13 million a year.

that is an opinion.
the coach is an employee. he gets whatever he can get.

players are students. there is a huge difference.

 

[RiverDad]

bargain for what?

For whatever they damn well want. There's nothing sacred being violated here. This is pure and simple application of negotiating strength. Can they leverage their power to make themselves better off? They sure bring a lot of money-earning capacity to the school.

their whole college experience depends on them being students.

Who says that students can't get paid while going to school?

 

[Threegoofs]

why should a kid that can perform really well at something not be given a scholarship? it is in exchange for them performing.
smart kids that are in need have access to all kinds of scholarships and grants offered by the school.

so i guess they should be considered employee's of the school as well.

there is no such thing as sand castle building scholarships or video game scholarships. those are things that colleges do not offer.

What does the mission of a University have to do with how far someone can throw a discus?

Why is the talent of throwing a discus rewarded with a scholarship at the expense of the talent of, say, mathematics?

Athletic scholarships are a bad idea that is out of control in today's academics.

 

[ludin]

For whatever they damn well want. There's nothing sacred being violated here. This is pure and simple application of negotiating strength. Can they leverage their power to make themselves better off? They sure bring a lot of money-earning capacity to the school.



Who says that students can't get paid while going to school?

NCAA says they can't get paid that is who.

no i mean they are not employee's they do not work for the college they are not on the payroll. their scholarships are contingent on making the grades. if they do not make the grades then they get put on suspension and not allowed to play. if it continues they can lose their scholarships.

so how can you bargain against someone that you do not work for?

 

[Crovax]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

:rofl !!! You've GOT to be kidding me!

nope

Northwestern University's president emeritus said that if the players on its football team are successful at forming a union, he could see the prestigious private institution giving up Division I football.

Will Northwestern University football unionize? - CNN.com

 

[ludin]

What does the mission of a University have to do with how far someone can throw a discus?

Why is the talent of throwing a discus rewarded with a scholarship at the expense of the talent of, say, mathematics?

Athletic scholarships are a bad idea that is out of control in today's academics.

that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

i played sports when i was i high school and my grades were higher for it as well because you had to make the GPA to play.

 

[Napoleon]

they do educate and provide education to thousands of kids who wouldn't get a chance to afford college.
you don't know what you are talking about.

No, actually the State provides loans and grants to the majority of university students since they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it because of skyrocketing tuition resulting from sports expenses and campus beautification projects. You're never going to convince anyone of that hogwash while universities like Ohio State spend over $100 million on athletics while slashing the budget of its College of Arts and Sciences.

 

[RiverDad]

NCAA says they can't get paid that is who.

The NCAA is not God throwing down lightning bolts from the sky. The NCAA is run by institutions for the benefit of institutions and give only lip service to the welfare of students. They could change their position and balance their governing board by putting student-athlete activists on it whose mission is to favor the athlete-students before favoring the institutions, you know a balanced approach.

The NCAA is simply a "power at the moment." The student-athletes are challenging that power.

no i mean they are not employee's they do not work for the college they are not on the payroll. their scholarships are contingent on making the grades. if they do not make the grades then they get put on suspension and not allowed to play. if it continues they can lose their scholarships.

Those are the rules of the game at this moment in time. Rules get changed all the time.

so how can you bargain against someone that you do not work for?

Simple. You twist their arm until it hurts them and they cry uncle. Then they come to the bargaining table and negotiate.

 

[Threegoofs]

that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

i played sports when i was i high school and my grades were higher for it as well because you had to make the GPA to play.

I'm not saying sports are bad at all.
My kids have all been in sports, mostly swimming, and the focus and concentration on the sport helped them significantly in school.

But that doesnt mean they should go to college because they are good swimmers. They should go because they are good students.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

nope

Will Northwestern University football unionize? - CNN.com

Hell will freeze over first.

 

[RiverDad]

I'm not saying sports are bad at all.
My kids have all been in sports, mostly swimming, and the focus and concentration on the sport helped them significantly in school.

But that doesnt mean they should go to college because they are good swimmers. They should go because they are good students.

1.) There is a pragmatic level to this issue. College sports bring in big money for schools. Not every sport, of course, but in the aggregate. That money helps other parts of the school.
2.) College sports tie alumni closer to the school. Look at American universities compared to Canadian, British, Australian, Japanese, German, etc and you see alumni engagement (and financial support) at huge multiples of what we see elsewhere.
3.) If schools applied your solution, the US Department of Justice would investigate them for racial discrimination. Minority students have a very difficult time competing for admission simply on the basis of academic performance. Sports are one avenue of admission which benefits them at greater rates than other populations.

 

[Crovax]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Hell will freeze over first.

 

[ludin]

No, actually the State provides loans and grants to the majority of university students since they wouldn't otherwise be able to afford it because of skyrocketing tuition resulting from sports expenses and campus beautification projects. You're never going to convince anyone of that hogwash while universities like Ohio State spend over $100 million on athletics while slashing the budget of its College of Arts and Sciences.

again you do not know what you are talking about. college athletics must keep their money separate from educational funding. everything done by the schools athletic department comes from the athletic department. it does not come from educational tuition.

If it is slashing it's college and fine arts programs then it is because they don't have the students to support those programs. it has nothing to do with the sports program.

 

[ludin]

The NCAA is not God throwing down lightning bolts from the sky. The NCAA is run by institutions for the benefit of institutions and give only lip service to the welfare of students. They could change their position and balance their governing board by putting student-athlete activists on it whose mission is to favor the athlete-students before favoring the institutions, you know a balanced approach.

The NCAA is simply a "power at the moment." The student-athletes are challenging that power.

The NCAA is the organization that sets the standards for college athletics. They have maintained and always maintained that student athletes are athletes and they are.

they choose to play football of their own free will. in order to be accepted they have to make the grades to even be able to attend.

Those are the rules of the game at this moment in time. Rules get changed all the time.

a non-answer

Simple. You twist their arm until it hurts them and they cry uncle. Then they come to the bargaining table and negotiate.

Simple you signed a contract to play football for our school if you do not wish to play football then that is your choice and your scholarship is revoked have a nice day.
that is your negotiation.

sure they can transfer but then they lose a year of eligibility.

 

[ludin]

I'm not saying sports are bad at all.
My kids have all been in sports, mostly swimming, and the focus and concentration on the sport helped them significantly in school.

But that doesnt mean they should go to college because they are good swimmers. They should go because they are good students.

again that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it.

 

[Deuce]

The NCAA is the organization that sets the standards for college athletics. They have maintained and always maintained that student athletes are athletes and they are.

they choose to play football of their own free will. in order to be accepted they have to make the grades to even be able to attend.



a non-answer




Simple you signed a contract to play football for our school if you do not wish to play football then that is your choice and your scholarship is revoked have a nice day.
that is your negotiation.

sure they can transfer but then they lose a year of eligibility.

And the school that decides it's worth giving them some extra stuff will get the better players. I don't think you've thought this through. Star football players are in incredibly high demand because they bring in a crapload of money. They can always take that service to a different school.