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U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8

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TheDemSocialist

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The Hague, Netherlands (CNN) -- U.S. President Barack Obama and other world leaders have decided to end Russia's role in the group of leading industrialized nations, the White House said Monday.The move to suspend Russia's membership in the G8 is the latest direct response from major countries allied against Russia's annexation of Crimea.
"International law prohibits the acquisition of part or all of another state's territory through coercion or force," the statement said. "To do so violates the principles upon which the international system is built. We condemn the illegal referendum held in Crimea in violation of Ukraine's constitution.
"We also strongly condemn Russia's illegal attempt to annex Crimea in contravention of international law and specific international obligations."
Earlier in the day, Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said being kicked out of G8 would be no big deal.
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Read more @: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8 - CNN.com

Throwing up the deuces. See ya later Russia!
 
heard this in the radio and it's been discussed much since Russia rolled in to Crimea. I oft wondered, in Hillary's famous line, what difference does it make? Western Europe will still buy natural gas from Russia. Others will still buy their oil. We will still buy their vodka (jk) and all will continue but Putin will save a few bucks by not traveling to a summit that does???? What???
 
CalGun said:
heard this in the radio and it's been discussed much since Russia rolled in to Crimea. I oft wondered, in Hillary's famous line, what difference does it make? Western Europe will still buy natural gas from Russia. Others will still buy their oil. We will still buy their vodka (jk) and all will continue but Putin will save a few bucks by not traveling to a summit that does???? What???
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Vodka is a special case. Vladolf Putler doesn't own all the Russian distilleries (not yet).

I am 100% for sanctions [full disclosure: here you have a Pole who grew up in Russia, fiercely anti-Soviet by blood and by conviction, a proud American citizen, etc - - - you can imagine]; also, I don't drink vodka - more of a red wine kinda guy --- but!:

If it is not too much bother - please, we should spend some effort (like, 3 minutes of googling- never killed anyone) to determine (roughly) who is who. The small business owners are not the Kremlin's constituency.

I still have some connections over there in Mordor - starting with my own elderly parents ( a frantic visas acquisition dance is underway) - not a single one of them has a single word of approval for what is happening. And "they" are a small but diverse bunch - left and right; Orthodox, Armenian, Jewish and Catholic; Russians and "nation-traitors" [Putler's words, from the recent "world-changing" speech]....

There was a "battle of letters" in Moscow the other week: prominent writers, actors, scientists had lined up on one or the other side of the chasm. "Either you are with us, or you are against us" - nobody has any illusions at this point. But I am happy to report: Most everyone I knew as a worthy contributor to the great and tragic Russian culture of the 20th century did sign the "hands off the Ukraine" letter.

All I can say is that the people who make Russia worth worrying about are still there - cornered, terrified - but still alive, still free (for now), and still trying to do their best in a horrible, horrible situation.

I am guilty as well: "Made in China? Yuk. Don't they have anything Made in Taiwan, of the same quality?". But now, when it hits very close to home....Yes, absolutely, boycott their gas and oil (quantitatively stolen by the State-appointed "oligarchs" anyway), but give a chance to the few courageous souls who are still struggling - against all odds -to make Russia into a civilized country. They need our help. They are our best hope, actually.

I know, it is almost too much to ask. But it is about bloody time for us to pay some freaking attention. 2014, you know. 1914 wasn't much fun.
 
Hi Maggie, long time...
What would you do?
 
Cyrylek said:
Hi Maggie, long time...
What would you do?
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I'm a believer in keeping one's friends close and one's enemies closer.

If we (the United States) had ties to an area (which Russia does to the Ukraine) and they suddenly wanted to vote to be annexed, I think we'd support them in that endeavor. Personally, I think we were wrong right out of the box. We should have used diplomacy and asked Russia to use UN supervisors to oversee their election process. We believe in elections, right? We believe the will of the people ought to be respected, right? Well, then, what is so wrong with what they did? If it were us, we might have done the same thing. Let the people decide.

But. Since I assume we fomented the over-throw of their government? We had bigger designs than Russia taking over parts of it...
 
I still think that I'd fully support Crimea's joining Russia if I could be sure the voting was reasonably uncorrupted.

But frankly Russian military forces hanging around the place while the vote was going on makes me highly skeptical.


In this case I think the rest of the world (including USA here) is trying a bunch of **** OTHER than threatening military action, which is probably a good thing UNLESS such threats are the only thing Putin will respond to, assuming he's still in charge and all that.
 
CalGun said:
heard this in the radio and it's been discussed much since Russia rolled in to Crimea. I oft wondered, in Hillary's famous line, what difference does it make? Western Europe will still buy natural gas from Russia. Others will still buy their oil. We will still buy their vodka (jk) and all will continue but Putin will save a few bucks by not traveling to a summit that does???? What???
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Major decisions will be made without Russia's input. Yeah, there's an effect.
 
MaggieD said:
I'm a believer in keeping one's friends close and one's enemies closer.

If we (the United States) had ties to an area (which Russia does to the Ukraine) and they suddenly wanted to vote to be annexed, I think we'd support them in that endeavor. Personally, I think we were wrong right out of the box. We should have used diplomacy and asked Russia to use UN supervisors to oversee their election process. We believe in elections, right? We believe the will of the people ought to be respected, right? Well, then, what is so wrong with what they did? If it were us, we might have done the same thing. Let the people decide.

But. Since I assume we fomented the over-throw of their government? We had bigger designs than Russia taking over parts of it...
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Voting with thousands of foreign troops outside the precinct isn't a democratic decision.
 
Deuce said:
Voting with thousands of foreign troops outside the precinct isn't a democratic decision.
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It may be a mistake, but I judge most incidents through my own eyes. If I were intimidated, one of two things would happen. I'd go anyway, knowing they wouldn't see how I voted . . . or I wouldn't show up. In the last presidential election, there were thugs standing outside some of the voting places...they weren't asked to move along...they weren't prosecuted...nothing. Did they intimidate anyone from voting their own minds? I seriously doubt it.

Now. The people who voted are far less important than the people who count them. So . . . Ha!
 
MaggieD said:
It may be a mistake, but I judge most incidents through my own eyes. If I were intimidated, one of two things would happen. I'd go anyway, knowing they wouldn't see how I voted . . . or I wouldn't show up. In the last presidential election, there were thugs standing outside some of the voting places...they weren't asked to move along...they weren't prosecuted...nothing. Did they intimidate anyone from voting their own minds? I seriously doubt it.
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There were like three guys at one voting precinct and most people described them as friendly. For some reason Fox News never showed you the footage of them holding doors open for old ladies. Hardly comparable to thousands of armed Russian troops. They were called thugs because they were black. Ooh, and one guy was staring in a threatening manner! Gee, maybe that had something to do with the video camera you were pointing at him because he was black and scary looking and therefore an Obama thug.

Now. The people who voted are far less important than the people who count them. So . . . Ha!
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And when you are counting votes with Russian military outside your numbers better reflect something they will like.
 
In all fairness what decisions? I'm just curious and I have a difficult time believing they will impact Russia. In my earlier post I asked what difference does it make since we will still buy their oil, Euro their natural gas and jokingly their vodka. But I forgot to add they buy US debt too.


Deuce said:
Major decisions will be made without Russia's input. Yeah, there's an effect.
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CalGun said:
heard this in the radio and it's been discussed much since Russia rolled in to Crimea. I oft wondered, in Hillary's famous line, what difference does it make? Western Europe will still buy natural gas from Russia. Others will still buy their oil. We will still buy their vodka (jk) and all will continue but Putin will save a few bucks by not traveling to a summit that does???? What???
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We also will use the Russians to get our Americans up and back from the international space station and keep using Russian rockets to launch our satellites because NASA's mission under Obama is no longer space but to tell the Muslim world how smart they are.

I wonder what Obama's response would be if Russia refused to transport our astronauts back to Earth from the international space station ?

When it comes to space, America under the Obama administration has become too dependent on Russia.

Putin is playing chess while Obama keeps playing checkers.
 
Deuce said:
There were like three guys at one voting precinct and most people described them as friendly. For some reason Fox News never showed you the footage of them holding doors open for old ladies. Hardly comparable to thousands of armed Russian troops. They were called thugs because they were black. Ooh, and one guy was staring in a threatening manner! Gee, maybe that had something to do with the video camera you were pointing at him because he was black and scary looking and therefore an Obama thug.


And when you are counting votes with Russian military outside your numbers better reflect something they will like.
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I'd like to believe the voting was all uncorrupted.

But the presence of Russian military forces means I have to question it.

Just the presence.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: U.S., other powers kick Russia out of G8 - CNN.com

Throwing up the deuces. See ya later Russia! [/FONT][/COLOR]
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""International law prohibits the acquisition of part or all of another state's territory through coercion or force," the statement said. "To do so violates the principles upon which the international system is built.
Why don't the other powers kick out the USA. We certainly coerced the Ukrainians to initiate a coup in Kiev and ergo we are as much to blame, or more so, than the Russians. We created the instability.
 
MaggieD said:
I'm a believer in keeping one's friends close and one's enemies closer.

If we (the United States) had ties to an area (which Russia does to the Ukraine) and they suddenly wanted to vote to be annexed, I think we'd support them in that endeavor. Personally, I think we were wrong right out of the box. We should have used diplomacy and asked Russia to use UN supervisors to oversee their election process. We believe in elections, right? We believe the will of the people ought to be respected, right? Well, then, what is so wrong with what they did? If it were us, we might have done the same thing. Let the people decide.
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Except that in this situation this is nothing more than Russia exploiting political instability in Ukraine and grabbing whatever they can, in this case Crimea. As far as I know there was a specific procedure the Ukrainian parliament needed to follow if a province wished to secede from the country; to say the least it was not followed. Even then the proper way to through the process is not with an occupying military literally surrounding the voting parliament, but in an open and transparent manner.

Also, diplomacy would have done very little. Russia has shown little concern for any sort of transparency and would have vetoed any resolution that would have sent UN observers to oversee the whole process since it would have meant the vote would not have gone Russia's way, something they would not have chanced. Instead, they cracked down on all media into Crimea and used the threat of force to compel the Crimean parliament to vote for an illegal secession and annexation.

MaggieD said:
But. Since I assume we fomented the over-throw of their government? We had bigger designs than Russia taking over parts of it...
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The protests were a response to President Yanucovych backing away from a deal that would have further integrated Ukraine with the rest of Europe and away from Russia. The United States may have had something to do with them, but I have no reason to believe the protests were anything more than a populist revolt against seeing their country sink further into a kleptocracy.

The best thing the United States can do is continue, if not further increase, with sanctions. So far the Russian stock exchange has seen a large decline, as has the ruble, and their economic outlook was downgraded to show expectations of no growth for 2014. Pushing further sanctions may push them into recession, and then steps to aid both the Ukrainian government and military could further dissuade Russia from taking anything beyond Crimea.
 
Spaceman_Spiff said:
Except that in this situation this is nothing more than Russia exploiting political instability in Ukraine and grabbing whatever they can, in this case Crimea. As far as I know there was a specific procedure the Ukrainian parliament needed to follow if a province wished to secede from the country; to say the least it was not followed. Even then the proper way to through the process is not with an occupying military literally surrounding the voting parliament, but in an open and transparent manner.

Also, diplomacy would have done very little. Russia has shown little concern for any sort of transparency and would have vetoed any resolution that would have sent UN observers to oversee the whole process since it would have meant the vote would not have gone Russia's way, something they would not have chanced. Instead, they cracked down on all media into Crimea and used the threat of force to compel the Crimean parliament to vote for an illegal secession and annexation.

The protests were a response to President Yanucovych backing away from a deal that would have further integrated Ukraine with the rest of Europe and away from Russia. The United States may have had something to do with them, but I have no reason to believe the protests were anything more than a populist revolt against seeing their country sink further into a kleptocracy.

The best thing the United States can do is continue, if not further increase, with sanctions. So far the Russian stock exchange has seen a large decline, as has the ruble, and their economic outlook was downgraded to show expectations of no growth for 2014. Pushing further sanctions may push them into recession, and then steps to aid both the Ukrainian government and military could further dissuade Russia from taking anything beyond Crimea.
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You may be right, Spaceman. I'm sure not well informed on the problem. That's an absolute. But, dang! It never stops me from an opinion. ;)
 
Putin is laughing all the way to the bank. This isn't going to coerce him into backing down.

He's already seen that all he has to do, is rattle his saber and the First World countries will back down.

If these sanctions start to sting, he'll start a brew-ha-ha somewhere and to stop it, Obama and the rest of his posse will lift a few of the sanctions.
 
MaggieD said:
I'm a believer in keeping one's friends close and one's enemies closer.

If we (the United States) had ties to an area (which Russia does to the Ukraine) and they suddenly wanted to vote to be annexed, I think we'd support them in that endeavor. Personally, I think we were wrong right out of the box. We should have used diplomacy and asked Russia to use UN supervisors to oversee their election process. We believe in elections, right? We believe the will of the people ought to be respected, right? Well, then, what is so wrong with what they did? If it were us, we might have done the same thing. Let the people decide.

But. Since I assume we fomented the over-throw of their government? We had bigger designs than Russia taking over parts of it...
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International observers were kept out of Crimea by Russian troops and paramilitary.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e?view=desktop#block-5318c4cee4b0b044c01b8277
 
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The Mark said:
I still think that I'd fully support Crimea's joining Russia if I could be sure the voting was reasonably uncorrupted.

But frankly Russian military forces hanging around the place while the vote was going on makes me highly skeptical.

.
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And don't forget those that opposed the referendum boycotted the vote.
 
EnigmaO01 said:
And don't forget those that opposed the referendum boycotted the vote.
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Frankly though, I barely trust the US gov to do more than keep itself alive - In this case, I don't really believe what my US leaders are saying anymore than I believe Russian leaders.
 
APACHERAT said:
We also will use the Russians to get our Americans up and back from the international space station and keep using Russian rockets to launch our satellites because NASA's mission under Obama is no longer space but to tell the Muslim world how smart they are.

I wonder what Obama's response would be if Russia refused to transport our astronauts back to Earth from the international space station ?

When it comes to space, America under the Obama administration has become too dependent on Russia.

Putin is playing chess while Obama keeps playing checkers.
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We use Russian rockets to send our satelites up? That's new one to me.

Don't look now but your contempt for Obama is showing like it does in every post.

This winter has been a cold one don't you think so? That's got to be Obama's fault right?
 
EnigmaO01 said:
We use Russian rockets to send our satelites up? That's new one to me.

Don't look now but your contempt for Obama is showing like it does in every post.

This winter has been a cold one don't you think so? That's got to be Obama's fault right?
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You should really get out more. We've been hiring the Russians to re-supply the Space Station for several years. Supplies and astronauts. SpaceX and another US company are just beginning supply runs, but mainly we rely on the Russians. Obama earned plenty of contempt with the Libyan misadventure and then followed up with Egypt and Syria. Now, he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar in Ukraine. Heavens to Murgatroyd, what will we do. Kill somebody, I guess? Moderation, eh?
 
DaveFagan said:
You should really get out more. We've been hiring the Russians to re-supply the Space Station for several years. Supplies and astronauts. SpaceX and another US company are just beginning supply runs, but mainly we rely on the Russians. Obama earned plenty of contempt with the Libyan misadventure and then followed up with Egypt and Syria. Now, he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar in Ukraine. Heavens to Murgatroyd, what will we do. Kill somebody, I guess? Moderation, eh?
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I'm aware of the space station runs. I was referring to our satelites.

What are you talking about Obama's hands in the cookie jar? Putin stole the damn cookies! LOL
 
The Mark said:
Frankly though, I barely trust the US gov to do more than keep itself alive - In this case, I don't really believe what my US leaders are saying anymore than I believe Russian leaders.
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Ah the ol' everybody's a crook argument. With all it's faults I'll take the U.S. over Russia anyday and some of the other sheetholes out there. And trust me I've been outside of the states.
 
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