• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Thousands of Gallons of Crude Oil Spills in Ohio Nature Preserve

Here it is for your ease and convenience:



We only need an equivalent to a Manhattan Project to make it happen in eight years or less.

"A team of scientists in California announced Wednesday they are one step closer to developing the almost mythical pollution-free, controlled fusion-energy reaction, though the goal of full “ignition” is still far off."

"This isn't like building a bridge," Hurricane told USA Today in an interview. "This is an exceedingly hard problem. You're basically trying to produce a star, on a small scale, here on Earth."

Picture yourself halfway up a mountain, but the mountain is covered in clouds," he told reporters on a conference call Wednesday. “And then someone calls you on your satellite phone and asks you, ‘How long is it going to take you to climb to the top of the mountain?’ You just don’t know.”

The beams of the 192 lasers Livermore used can pinpoint extreme amounts of energy in billionth-of-a-second pulses on any target. Hurricane said the energy produced by the process was about twice the amount that was in the fuel of the plastic-capsule target. Though the amount of energy yielded equaled only around 1 percent of energy delivered by the lasers to the capsule to ignite the process.

While applauding the Livermore team’s findings, fusion experts added researchers have “a factor of about 100 to go.”

"These results are still a long way from ignition, but they represent a significant step forward in fusion research," said Mark Herrmann of the Sandia National Laboratories' Pulsed Power Sciences Center. "Achieving pressures this large, even for vanishingly short times, is no easy task."

- - - -

So, with a 10 story building they produced power for a millisecond - only taking 100 times as much power to produce that power (meaning it sucks power rather than makes power) - for which according to them - and they are pro-fusion - they are now 1% of the way - maybe - with no mention of costs of an actual working unit.
 
"A team of scientists in California announced Wednesday they are one step closer to developing the almost mythical pollution-free, controlled fusion-energy reaction, though the goal of full “ignition” is still far off."

"This isn't like building a bridge," Hurricane told USA Today in an interview. "This is an exceedingly hard problem. You're basically trying to produce a star, on a small scale, here on Earth."

Picture yourself halfway up a mountain, but the mountain is covered in clouds," he told reporters on a conference call Wednesday. “And then someone calls you on your satellite phone and asks you, ‘How long is it going to take you to climb to the top of the mountain?’ You just don’t know.”

The beams of the 192 lasers Livermore used can pinpoint extreme amounts of energy in billionth-of-a-second pulses on any target. Hurricane said the energy produced by the process was about twice the amount that was in the fuel of the plastic-capsule target. Though the amount of energy yielded equaled only around 1 percent of energy delivered by the lasers to the capsule to ignite the process.

While applauding the Livermore team’s findings, fusion experts added researchers have “a factor of about 100 to go.”

"These results are still a long way from ignition, but they represent a significant step forward in fusion research," said Mark Herrmann of the Sandia National Laboratories' Pulsed Power Sciences Center. "Achieving pressures this large, even for vanishingly short times, is no easy task."

- - - -

So, with a 10 story building they produced power for a millisecond - only taking 100 times as much power to produce that power (meaning it sucks power rather than makes power) - for which according to them - and they are pro-fusion - they are now 1% of the way - maybe - with no mention of costs of an actual working unit.

Dude, the private sector has yet to go to the moon, and all of the technology can be obtained, practically, off the shelf. Going by that, if it hadn't been for monarchism, capitalism would still be looking for a New World.
 
This is really sad.

Nature is our most precious capital and it's irreplaceable. Once original ecosystem is destroyed, we can't buy another earth. There's no foolproof way to transport oil, not even pipelines, but I don't think private companies really care that much. There has been more than enough evidence gathered over the years to demonstrate that they do the bare minimum to meet regulatory guidelines, and now that regulatory agencies are bought off, there's even less being done.

Oil is dirty but I know we need it for the time being. It has to be possible to increase environmental safety while still meeting quotas. The bottom line here is that industry simply does not care, and government turns a blind eye. As a result the argument is becoming more and more black and white. With the billions they're raking in, companies can afford to do better. They just don't because the old world mentality is still running those companies.

People have become too desensitized to these stories. We absolutely cannot keep trashing the planet in this way. If what we're doing does not serve the next several generations, then it ought to be phased out with expediency. These profiteers do not care about anyone but themselves, and in a sane world they would not be allowed to continue with their behavior.
 
There is, of course, there are a few dangers of fusion in the context of making a mini-star. Lost containment and earth is instantly obliterated. But that's just a possible minor potential glitch during the development stage.

Fortunately, so far, obtaining the instant destruction of earth is proving difficult to achieve. But they are trying every possible way.
 
This is really sad.

Nature is our most precious capital and it's irreplaceable. Once original ecosystem is destroyed, we can't buy another earth. There's no foolproof way to transport oil, not even pipelines, but I don't think private companies really care that much. There has been more than enough evidence gathered over the years to demonstrate that they do the bare minimum to meet regulatory guidelines, and now that regulatory agencies are bought off, there's even less being done.

Oil is dirty but I know we need it for the time being. It has to be possible to increase environmental safety while still meeting quotas. The bottom line here is that industry simply does not care, and government turns a blind eye. As a result the argument is becoming more and more black and white. With the billions they're raking in, companies can afford to do better. They just don't because the old world mentality is still running those companies.

People have become too desensitized to these stories. We absolutely cannot keep trashing the planet in this way. If what we're doing does not serve the next several generations, then it ought to be phased out with expediency. These profiteers do not care about anyone but themselves, and in a sane world they would not be allowed to continue with their behavior.

Do your really care? The Al Gore theory of your using power to complain to who you buy it from.
 
Dude, the private sector has yet to go to the moon, and all of the technology can be obtained, practically, off the shelf. Going by that, if it hadn't been for monarchism, capitalism would still be looking for a New World.

The private sector was smart enough to realize there is nothing on the moon but rocks. There is no shortage of rocks on earth. The government sector hasn't gone back to the moon either.

All the WONDERFUL things some people believed would be discovered if only we got to the moon. And what was there? Rocks. And you count that as a wise expenditure of piles and piles of money. The quest for moon rocks. :roll:
 
This is really sad.

Nature is our most precious capital and it's irreplaceable. Once original ecosystem is destroyed, we can't buy another earth. There's no foolproof way to transport oil, not even pipelines, but I don't think private companies really care that much. There has been more than enough evidence gathered over the years to demonstrate that they do the bare minimum to meet regulatory guidelines, and now that regulatory agencies are bought off, there's even less being done.

Oil is dirty but I know we need it for the time being. It has to be possible to increase environmental safety while still meeting quotas. The bottom line here is that industry simply does not care, and government turns a blind eye. As a result the argument is becoming more and more black and white. With the billions they're raking in, companies can afford to do better. They just don't because the old world mentality is still running those companies.

People have become too desensitized to these stories. We absolutely cannot keep trashing the planet in this way. If what we're doing does not serve the next several generations, then it ought to be phased out with expediency. These profiteers do not care about anyone but themselves, and in a sane world they would not be allowed to continue with their behavior.

Why not advance fusion, instead? We could have enough energy to desalinate ocean water for transport to any State experiencing any drought.
 
The private sector was smart enough to realize there is nothing on the moon but rocks. There is no shortage of rocks on earth. The government sector hasn't gone back to the moon either.

All the WONDERFUL things some people believed would be discovered if only we got to the moon. And what was there? Rocks. And you count that as a wise expenditure of piles and piles of money. The quest for moon rocks. :roll:

In other words, Capitalism Only needs to discover a profit motive.

Socialism did it for the greater glory of Human understanding.
 
There are viable EXISTING real alternative. Such as point of usage mini solar power (very common now for powering remote lights and equipment.) Wind power. Massive potential in ocean thermal gradience and tidal power. Bio-mass.

To abandon all that in search of the mythology of fusion is as unenvironmentally sound as possible - and is just the pitch of the oil and gas industry.

The oil and gas industry declare we should not pursue and actually build and use REAL alternatives. Instead, just keep doing what we are doing while searching for dialitum crystal star drives and magical mini-suns fusion reactors.

Anyone pushing for fusion is a tool and PR agent of the oil and gas industry - as it is to divert all money and efforts from actual real, existing, viable alternations instead to Trekkie fantasyland.
 
There are viable EXISTING real alternative. Such as point of usage mini solar power (very common now for powering remote lights and equipment.) Wind power. Massive potential in ocean thermal gradience and tidal power. Bio-mass.

To abandon all that in search of the mythology of fusion is as unenvironmentally sound as possible - and is just the pitch of the oil and gas industry.

The oil and gas industry declare we should not pursue and actually build and use REAL alternatives. Instead, just keep doing what we are doing while searching for dialitum crystal star drives and magical mini-suns fusion reactors.

Anyone pushing for fusion is a tool and PR agent of the oil and gas industry - as it is to divert all money and efforts from actual real, existing, viable alternations instead to Trekkie fantasyland.

Most of those technologies won't deliver the scale economies fusion can. And, those technologies tend to be local to the consumption site. There is a video on YouTube about using a compost pile to heat water for bathing and such.
 
In other words, Capitalism Only needs to discover a profit motive.

Socialism did it for the greater glory of Human understanding.

GREAT! Electricity by an ideology reactor. We'll just build a machine that converts your cool ideology to electricity and we'll have all the power we need.

HEY! Forget fusion, why not BRAIN powered cars. That's be fantastic. Just think "GO!" and the car goes. Mind over matter. Even physicists (most) there is such a thing as a metaphysical reality. So why not metaphysical motors?

There are all sorts of movies about people moving stuff by just willing it to move, even a lot of people certain it is possible. Let's just keep on doing what we are doing until we figure out how to do that.

The thought doesn't cross your mind that clean energy no one can afford is worthless, does it? If it is not profitable (which means affordable) it is worthless.

And it was for-profit businesses that built was it took to land on the moon, though you think ideology did it.
 
Most of those technologies won't deliver the scale economies fusion can. And, those technologies tend to be local to the consumption site. There is a video on YouTube about using a compost pile to heat water for bathing and such.

Grand massive scale electrical production - meaning ideal for graft and payola - isn't the only way to generate electricity. On-site solar power already is used. All street lights everywhere could be powered that way. Ever fly over the USA at night? A billion lights could be solar powered.

The entire Western corridor of the USA is a desolate wasteland IDEAL for wind generators.

Ocean thermal gradience is using the power of earth's gravity (hot core) itself. Essentially unlimited, renewable and with no environmental effect.

The amount of energy of the tide here at our city coming in and going out twice a day at the channel here is more power than one of the coal burning power plants it flows past every day - and the tide here only rises and falls about 2 1/2 feet. It will do so forever and is a massive energy source equally the Hoover dam - and there are 10,000 similar locations in the USA.

Just run a set of pipes 15 feet down below a house and all it takes is a water pump and radiators to heat and cool 80% of houses in the USA, and that pump could be solar or wind powered.

The concept that electricity must come from huge central generations stations is false.

The technology for all that exists now. But no, don't do that, spending a Manhattan project of money for years and decades hoping to find the magic of fusion - and just stick with oil, gas and coal until then (meaning for decades of doing nothing and possibly centuries more).
 
Last edited:
Do your really care? The Al Gore theory of your using power to complain to who you buy it from.

Um... was that English? Because I have no idea what you just said other than gsoiyg39hg*mouthfoam*gsoiygseub something about Al Gore. :lol:

The America of 30 or even 20 years ago would care if we were seeing reports of the number of spills that we have today. The environmental devastation has increased exponentially as regulatory oversight slacks off. I guess the only difference is that right wingers have now been brainwashed to think that caring about the environment makes you a libbo. :roll:
 
GREAT! Electricity by an ideology reactor. We'll just build a machine that converts your cool ideology to electricity and we'll have all the power we need.

HEY! Forget fusion, why not BRAIN powered cars. That's be fantastic. Just think "GO!" and the car goes. Mind over matter. Even physicists (most) there is such a thing as a metaphysical reality. So why not metaphysical motors?

There are all sorts of movies about people moving stuff by just willing it to move, even a lot of people certain it is possible. Let's just keep on doing what we are doing until we figure out how to do that.

The thought doesn't cross your mind that clean energy no one can afford is worthless, does it? If it is not profitable (which means affordable) it is worthless.

And it was for-profit businesses that built was it took to land on the moon, though you think ideology did it.

I think you may be misunderstanding the concept of Socialism having an official Mint at its disposal.

The Manhattan Project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5DnMrMYL80
 
Um... was that English? Because I have no idea what you just said other than gsoiyg39hg*mouthfoam*gsoiygseub something about Al Gore. :lol:

The America of 30 or even 20 years ago would care if we were seeing reports of the number of spills that we have today. The environmental devastation has increased exponentially as regulatory oversight slacks off. I guess the only difference is that right wingers have now been brainwashed to think that caring about the environment makes you a libbo. :roll:
^ Wasn't that a bunch of partisan nothingness. The EPA was created by a Republican president. The Democrats were too much in industry's pocket.
 
I think you may be misunderstanding the concept of Socialism having an official Mint at its disposal.

The Manhattan Project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5DnMrMYL80

The oil and gas industry has been able rely on naïve people such you indicate in your message combined with the prostitute-nature of "scientists."

For a decade, nearly all money and development of alternative sources was diverted to researching the fabulous future of hydrogen. The industry put in enough money to "scientists" to do research to get it going, the government paying the rest. Magazines and scientific journals filled with articles declaring hydrogen is the power of the future. We'd all be driving cars with fuel cells. Hydrogen would solve everything. In the meantime, we'd just have to keep using coal, oil and gas.

People like you demanded they were right, so nothing happened.

Now they try convince people like you that fusion is the magic - for which you cite your proof in an article that essentially says it is impossible to do at this them. This also diverts from all the known working, feasible and affordable clean and renewable alternatives.

The enemy of the environment are naïve people calling themselves environmentalists, when actually they are just tools of the oil and coal industry.
 
The oil and gas industry has been able rely on naïve people such you indicate in your message combined with the prostitute-nature of "scientists."

For a decade, nearly all money and development of alternative sources was diverted to researching the fabulous future of hydrogen. The industry put in enough money to "scientists" to do research to get it going, the government paying the rest. Magazines and scientific journals filled with articles declaring hydrogen is the power of the future. We'd all be driving cars with fuel cells. Hydrogen would solve everything. In the meantime, we'd just have to keep using coal, oil and gas.

People like you demanded they were right, so nothing happened.

Now they try convince people like you that fusion is the magic - for which you cite your proof in an article that essentially says it is impossible to do at this them. This also diverts from all the known working, feasible and affordable clean and renewable alternatives.

The enemy of the environment are naïve people calling themselves environmentalists, when actually they are just tools of the oil and coal industry.

maybe we just need a War on a lack of Energy.
 
Read up on it. They want to sell refined products for greater profits, so want to pipeline it to refineries. Environmentalists have blocked any new refineries built for decades - although environmentalists love their plastic products and petrol fuels as much as anyone else. It is environmentalist who are responsible for most oil spills.

That's the joke of it. Due mostly to the new fuel economy standards, we are using gasoline at pre 2000 levels and have such a surplus of refining capacity that we EXPORT 400,000 barrels of gasoline a day. Refineries are dangerous and dirty, spewing carcinogens into the air. Why would we want more of them than we actually need? Are we that beholding to the oil companies profits that we will allow them to poison our air and water so they can sell gasoline to China? How low can we go?
 
Grand massive scale electrical production - meaning ideal for graft and payola - isn't the only way to generate electricity. On-site solar power already is used. All street lights everywhere could be powered that way. Ever fly over the USA at night? A billion lights could be solar powered.

The entire Western corridor of the USA is a desolate wasteland IDEAL for wind generators.

Ocean thermal gradience is using the power of earth's gravity (hot core) itself. Essentially unlimited, renewable and with no environmental effect.

The amount of energy of the tide here at our city coming in and going out twice a day at the channel here is more power than one of the coal burning power plants it flows past every day - and the tide here only rises and falls about 2 1/2 feet. It will do so forever and is a massive energy source equally the Hoover dam - and there are 10,000 similar locations in the USA.

Just run a set of pipes 15 feet down below a house and all it takes is a water pump and radiators to heat and cool 80% of houses in the USA, and that pump could be solar or wind powered.

The concept that electricity must come from huge central generations stations is false.

The technology for all that exists now. But no, don't do that, spending a Manhattan project of money for years and decades hoping to find the magic of fusion - and just stick with oil, gas and coal until then (meaning for decades of doing nothing and possibly centuries more).

It isn't about "hope of the magic of fusion" but the capital intensiveness of the such a project. Besides, most people didn't have a clue or didn't complain when it was about warfare-State functionality instead of merely what our Founding Fathers ordained and established, a welfare-State to promote the general welfare.
 
It isn't about "hope of the magic of fusion" but the capital intensiveness of the such a project. Besides, most people didn't have a clue or didn't complain when it was about warfare-State functionality instead of merely what our Founding Fathers ordained and established, a welfare-State to promote the general welfare.

Huh? Are you really saying that the founders wanted a welfare state? :lamo
 
The private sector was smart enough to realize there is nothing on the moon but rocks. There is no shortage of rocks on earth. The government sector hasn't gone back to the moon either.

All the WONDERFUL things some people believed would be discovered if only we got to the moon. And what was there? Rocks. And you count that as a wise expenditure of piles and piles of money. The quest for moon rocks. :roll:

Wonderful things were discovered due to the moon landing just not on the moon. The landings proved once and for all that the moon was once a part of Earth, hence the lack of interesting finds there.
 
Why, if they can simply buy people out or go around them?

Pipelines don't bend easily. Imminent domain is how pipelines are built. Too bad pipelines don't really qualify because they are not really in "community interest".
 
Back
Top Bottom