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Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

Lol continue to spin in favor for Putin.
This was an armed annexation of part of the Ukraine, no more no less.

Only in your dreams. You fail to make a Hitler/Putin comparison.
 
How would you know how big the military needs to be to defend our country? Defend it against what? They don't send out a flier beforehand, buddy. You have to be prepared for anything from any direction under any circumstances. You don't guess.

The standard CON answer of 'MORE MORE MORE' is no answer. Empires collapse as they can no longer afford to maintain a wide flung grip on mostly third world nations. We are no different, we can't keep spending money we don't have to be so big the next 14 other nations are not our equal. (and it didn't stop conflict in Africa, Georgia and now the Crimea)

Exactly, defend it from what? Invasion by ground troops??? Nuke strike??? Cyber attack of our interwebz???

Don't need a dozen carriers to keep another country from attempting an invasion by sea. Don't need 24 AF fighter squadrons to stop a nuke strike. The M1 Abrams is a sweet tank but does little against a cyber attack.

Our nation doesn't need a military bigger than most of our allies and enemies combined.

Oh and you ain't my buddy unless we shared a fighting position one dark and lonely night out in the middle of no damn place... :2wave:
 
The standard CON answer of 'MORE MORE MORE' is no answer. Empires collapse as they can no longer afford to maintain a wide flung grip on mostly third world nations. We are no different, we can't keep spending money we don't have to be so big the next 14 other nations are not our equal. (and it didn't stop conflict in Africa, Georgia and now the Crimea)

Exactly, defend it from what? Invasion by ground troops??? Nuke strike??? Cyber attack of our interwebz???

Don't need a dozen carriers to keep another country from attempting an invasion by sea. Don't need 24 AF fighter squadrons to stop a nuke strike. The M1 Abrams is a sweet tank but does little against a cyber attack.

Our nation doesn't need a military bigger than most of our allies and enemies combined.

Oh and you ain't my buddy unless we shared a fighting position one dark and lonely night out in the middle of no damn place... :2wave:

The military isn't what's breaking us. It's half our citizenry's incessant need to sponge off the other half.
 
The US AID has been active in Ukraine for some years, trying to undermine Russian influence. This led to the demonstrations in Kiev, during the Olympics, an embarrassment for Putin. The US fomented the conditions for Anti-Russian sentiment, and did little to quell the demonstrations against the elected president, who had Russian support.
Obama deserves criticism for how he is handling the Russians now, but also how he handled the CIA and USAIS in Ukraine, during his administration. This has been going on for several administrations. Kerry, US Secretary of State, was theoretically in charge of Ukraine CIA operations. "Since 1991, Ukraine’s development trajectory has taken the country from a command to a market-based economy. The United States Government maintains a strategic interest in helping Ukraine’s transition toward greater democracy and a sustainable free market economy. Over the last 20 years USAID has provided $1.8 billion in critical development assistance in support of the Ukrainian people. Much of this development assistance has helped Ukrainians experience increased political freedoms, stronger transparency guarantees, and more economic and social opportunities.
What is wrong with any of this?

The Ukraine society is short on community leaders, because Stalin's purges in 1936 killed millions of the community leaders. The society of Ukraine is not well organized, and savvy. The demonstrations in Kiev had the effect of forcing a Russian invasion of Crimea. Not real bright.
Millions of people throughout the world were murdered by Communists and Nazis yet managed to find 'community leaders'. How would demonstrations in Kiev force an invasion any more than a demonstration in London or Stockholm force an invasion?

"Since 1991, Ukraine’s development trajectory has taken the country from a command to a market-based economy. The United States Government maintains a strategic interest in helping Ukraine’s transition toward greater democracy and a sustainable free market economy. Over the last 20 years USAID has provided $1.8 billion in critical development assistance in support of the Ukrainian people. Much of this development assistance has helped Ukrainians experience increased political freedoms, stronger transparency guarantees, and more economic and social opportunities.

Today, USAID/Ukraine implements a focused development assistance program to support: more participatory, transparent, and accountable governance; broad-based resilient economic development; and improved health status for Ukrainians.

USAID also supports U.S. Presidential Initiatives in Global Health and Global Climate Change. 'Ukraine | U.S. Agency for International Development.....snip~ Ukraine | U.S. Agency for International Development

Once again, good for America. That's more than the economically incompetent and morally challenged Russians will ever do.
 
What is wrong with any of this?

Millions of people throughout the world were murdered by Communists and Nazis yet managed to find 'community leaders'. How would demonstrations in Kiev force an invasion any more than a demonstration in London or Stockholm force an invasion?

Once again, good for America. That's more than the economically incompetent and morally challenged Russians will ever do.


Mornin' Grant. :2wave: I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. Although I haven't gone into it to deeply.

Ukraine is overly in debt, and no real prospects of solving their financial problems. Also lets not forget Johnny Quest accuse our Intel agencies of dropping the ball.



U.S. Spy Agencies Deny Failure on Crimea Seizure.....

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"Since the beginning of the political unrest in Ukraine, the CIA has regularly updated policymakers to ensure they have an accurate and timely picture of the unfolding crisis," CIA spokesman Todd Ebitz said. "These updates have included warnings of possible scenarios for a Russian military intervention in Ukraine. Any suggestion otherwise is flat wrong."

A spokesman for the Director of National Intelligence also denied that the intelligence community failed to see that Russia was going to send troops into Crimea, and added that the intelligence community has "frequently warned" of worrying trends in Russia since President Vladimir Putin came back into office.

"Reports that the intelligence community was caught off guard by events in Crimea are highly inaccurate," Shawn Turner told NBC News on Wednesday night."

U.S. Spy Agencies Deny Failure on Crimea Seizure - NBC News
 
I find it the usual but disappointing that over
90% of those right-wingers posting on this board
are supporting and justifying Putin's take-over in Crimea.

It makes me wonder what is making the few like you tick that feel this referendum is a farce .

Exposing scam referendums should supercede Political ideologies IMO.
 
The military isn't what's breaking us. It's half our citizenry's incessant need to sponge off the other half.

Again dodged the discussion at hand. I answered your question and you retreat to a CON game on the social safety net. most you decry are working and being productive.
 
I always try to wrap myself around the coalitions coming together from both parties.
Most don't like to be type-cast as "neo-con" or Isolationist, but I would surmise that you and I are both Neos with Russia's Putin.

I'm closer to the vest on Crimea, watching the ruble and Russian stocks tumble.
I just read how poor that Crimea is, so Russia will be hurt there.
Merkel has turned on Russia, and China abstained on the resolution.

The world sees the scam referendum for what it is and Putin has irreparably damaged himself in the trust category.
As for ideologies, I continue to point out that differences within both parties are much more pronounced on issues like foreign policy .
Exposing scam referendums should supercede Political ideologies IMO.
 
Mornin' Grant. :2wave: I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. Although I haven't gone into it to deeply.
Hi, MMC. It just seemed curious that you posted this.

Ukraine is overly in debt, and no real prospects of solving their financial problems. Also lets not forget Johnny Quest accuse our Intel agencies of dropping the ball.
Most countries are overly in debt and will need responsible governments to sort things out. Russia itself is also deep in debt with an economy that's going nowhere. The Ukraine would certainly have a better chance were they in the EU.
"Since the beginning of the political unrest in Ukraine, the CIA has regularly updated policymakers to ensure they have an accurate and timely picture of the unfolding crisis," CIA spokesman Todd Ebitz said. "These updates have included warnings of possible scenarios for a Russian military intervention in Ukraine. Any suggestion otherwise is flat wrong." A spokesman for the Director of National Intelligence also denied that the intelligence community failed to see that Russia was going to send troops into Crimea, and added that the intelligence community has "frequently warned" of worrying trends in Russia since President Vladimir Putin came back into office.

Of course the Russians invaded Georgia so there isn't much doubt as to Putin's ambitions, both by his actions and statements. The only question is where the West wants to stop him and how. I still believe they will, after much bluster, let him have the Crimea but will stop him there. Even Merkel appears on board with that now.
 
I always try to wrap myself around the
coalitions coming together from both parties.
Most don't like to be type-cast as "neo-con" or Isolationist, but I would surmise that you and I are both Neos with Russia's Putin.

I'm closer to the vest on Crimea, watching the ruble and Russian stocks tumble.
I just read how poor that Crimea is, so Russia will be hurt there.
Merkel has turned on Russia, and China abstained on the resolution.

The world sees the scam referendum for what it is and Putin has irreparably damaged himself in the trust category.
As for ideologies, I continue to point out that differences within both parties are much more pronounced on issues like foreign policy .

How Obama and the rest of the World deals with Putins agression is more of a Foreign Policy issue.

But Putins actions can be addressed on their own, without any qualifications that are dependant on Political classification or ideology.

Thts how I see this issue for the time being.

Judging Putin on his actions and waiting to see how the rest of the world reacts
 
There was no violence in the Crimea during the protests, and to compare it to the Balkans where millions of people were killed is just stupid. And just because the Russians have historical ties to a region doesn't give them the right to invade and annex it especially after signing a treaty, not the one in 1954, which clearly recognized the region as belonging to Ukraine. "Having a grievance" is not justification enough for invasion.

Also like I said before, who ****ing cares about the particulars of the Ukrainian impeachment process. The guy is killing people in the street, robbing the country of its tax dollars to feed into personal bank accounts and you would rather let the suffering of millions continue and the economic stagnation and robbery of an ENTIRE country continue because its more important to follow the strict letter of the law.

**** that, that's stupid.

Well... I am gonna get a warning for this.. and mods I fully accept it.. but guess I can't fix stupid so I am gonna go about my day.
 
Again dodged the discussion at hand. I answered your question and you retreat to a CON game on the social safety net. most you decry are working and being productive.

You dodged the question with a bunch of malarkey suggesting that you know how big the military should be. You call that an "answer", and mine wasn't? LOL
 
how many people were killed in the German invasion of Austria?

Holy Roman Empire was Germanic language based Empire. It included Austria. Part of Austria since the end of the Holy Empire wanted to be part of a unified Germany. Called Großdeutschland (Greater Germany), it was the goal of many Germans and public was since 1860s. By the end of the Austro-Hungarian empire in 1918/1919, Austria pleaded to be included as part Germany. It was banned by the League of Nations.
 
Well... I am gonna get a warning for this.. and mods I fully accept it.. but guess I can't fix stupid so I am gonna go about my day.

I suppose that works better than debating the facts.

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I hope you don't get an infraction, I certainly won't be reporting the post.
 
Holy Roman Empire was Germanic language based Empire. It included Austria. Part of Austria since the end of the Holy Empire wanted to be part of a unified Germany. Called Großdeutschland (Greater Germany), it was the goal of many Germans and public was since 1860s. By the end of the Austro-Hungarian empire in 1918/1919, Austria pleaded to be included as part Germany. It was banned by the League of Nations.


Still occupied them though and overthrew the existing government. Austria made no formal request to the Nazi's just as Crimea did not ask Putin to intervene.
 
So basically you endorse separate-but-equal racism
for which obviously everyone sticks with their own ethnicity? Then what is your ethnicity so we can pre-know where you stand on every issue given at least you are 100% loyal to your ethnicity whatever that leads to.




Wrong. This is projection on your part.

I have always endorsed and supported equal rights for all.





"Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
 
You dodged the question with a bunch of malarkey suggesting that you know how big the military should be. You call that an "answer", and mine wasn't? LOL

I said it quite clear... 1/4th the current size to defend the nation. I did mention our defense spending is more than all our allies and biggest enemies combined. I waited for you to give ANY example of where we are lacking in Navy, Air Force, or Army... You have no reasoning behind your demand for more more more other than they won't send flyers... :roll:

Then of course your CON rant about the social safety net... now I could give a dozen examples of Empires collapsing under their own weight... but we know those songs quite well don't we?
 
It's like you don't understand I was replying to DaveFagan, who said it was a CIA plot.

Well it started with this at the beginning of the thread.

It says nothing about indicating a secret CIA plot.

It didn't stop there. The following was not directed to DaveFagan but directed at me personally

To you, normal embassy operations are a sign of a secret CIA plot. That's weird, dude.

Nothing there about DaveFagan, and it was simply not true.
 
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What is wrong with any of this?

It becomes problematic when the interference becomes so intense that a major nuclear armed power begins to have legitimate concerns for it's security right on it's near borders.

Once again, good for America. That's more than the economically incompetent and morally challenged Russians will ever do.

The thing is this, it becomes a problem when it provokes unnecessary conflict with a major power. They way the whole situation was handled was wrong. Not only that, but you don't see US supported NGOs in Saudi Arabia, which has a more repressive society than Russia. There is a reason for that.
 
Who hates Crimeans? Crimeans have made a choice. With choices come consequences. Surely you don't expect Ukraine to continue to make provisions for Crimea do you? However, they do have a history of being a bit fickle. Crimea voted to be independent of the Soviet Union (December 1991) and Ukraine (May 1992 -- rescinded then reconsidered 1994). So once again they have decided to switch. Let them look to their new leader for all their provisions.

Please tell me that you realize that Ukraine gets it's gas and oil from Russia, which is what started all of this in the first place, right? The democratically elected president and parliament chose to get a great gas and oil deal with additional monies rather than join the EU. So if Ukrains tries any of what you're suggesting, Russia will close the pipelines that go through the Ukraine to Europe, and then Ukraine and half the EU will suffer as well. Sounds good? I don't think so. The ignorance of chicken hawks is astounding.
 
Well it started with this at the beginning of the thread.



It didn't stop there. The following was not directed to DaveFagan but directed at me personally



Nothing there about DaveFagan, and it was simply not true.

Everything I was saying was the Dave, and being incredulous that he could think it was a secret CIA plot. You responded to my posts to him. There was no US plot to install a new government in Ukraine. It wasn't done by Americans- CIA or otherwise.
 
You cast a vote after the region was been invaded by Russian troops. That is voting at the point of a gun.

So all those purple fingers displayed in Iraq are meaningless? Interesting.
 
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