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Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

I find it the usual but disappointing that over 90% of those right-wingers posting on this board
are supporting and justifying Putin's take-over in Crimea.
Fenton said:
I dont think any reasonable individual would consider this referendum to be anything but the farce that it is.
It makes me wonder why Putin even bothered.
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It makes me wonder what is making the few like you tick that feel this referendum is a farce .
 
ChezC3 said:
As the Ukrainian government was usurped through a coup, it's open season, everything is fair game.. Good on Russia...
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Wow dude, you support dictatorships invading other nations and using criminal means to destroy their governments to turn them into puppets?

That's sick.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
as long as no one is stupid enough to open fire on the russians, the russians cannot justify any further expansion.
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Hell yes they can, they'll justify whatever they want if they feel they can get away with it.
 
austrianecon said:
So did Ukraine do the legal thing and remove him correctly? No! So rest is just bluster. If you are all for doing the right thing the right way.. you start there first.
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Who ****ing cares if he was not removed in the exact method in their Constitution? He was a horrible President who stole from his people, killed his people, and ran the government as a for-profit business for himself and friends. How is the suffering of MILLIONS of Ukrainians who had to live under this guy less important than following the strict guide of their Constitution? Its more important now that the country rebuilds itself.

Seriously **** the strict legality, it doesn't ****ing matter. This guy is such a horrible President that its less important to preserve the adherence to the law than it is to have removed him by any means available. The lives of people, the future of a country, is more important than following the strict letter of the law which NOT SURPRISINGLY a dictator won't respect anyway! Do you think you're going to remove this guy by letter of the law? He stole 70 billions from his country and put it into his personal bank account, he killed his people in the streets, why the **** do you think he'd respect a court or his Parliament telling him to get out? You're being naive.
 
Wiseone said:
Who ****ing cares if he was not removed in the exact method in their Constitution? He was a horrible President who stole from his people, killed his people, and ran the government as a for-profit business for himself and friends. How is the suffering of MILLIONS of Ukrainians who had to live under this guy less important than following the strict guide of their Constitution? Its more important now that the country rebuilds itself.

Seriously **** the strict legality, it doesn't ****ing matter. This guy is such a horrible President that its less important to preserve the adherence to the law than it is to have removed him by any means available. The lives of people, the future of a country, is more important than following the strict letter of the law which NOT SURPRISINGLY a dictator won't respect anyway! Do you think you're going to remove this guy by letter of the law? He stole 70 billions from his country and put it into his personal bank account, he killed his people in the streets, why the **** do you think he'd respect a court or his Parliament telling him to get out? You're being naive.
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See how that line of thinking doesn't work for you when it comes to Crimea.. Example: So Crimea can do whatever the **** it wants, right?

You fail. Move on.
 
austrianecon said:
See how that line of thinking doesn't work for you when it comes to Crimea.. Example: So Crimea can do whatever the **** it wants, right?

You fail. Move on.
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Its not the Crimea its Russia, and no I don't given the same respect to dictators and invaders that I give to other kinds of people.

And lets talk about your failing, you say the last President of Ukraine was removed by a coup and thats wrong. Now Russia is annexing Crimea via coup in their Parliament as well, but thats OK? Tell me where are your standards? How is that ok but my position, which is the opposite is not?

Don't be a hypocrite.
 
APACHERAT said:
You've never been to Alamogordo, N.M. on a Friday or Saturday nigh have you ?
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Germans in the malls or restaurants or bars isn't my point. But I get what your saying. The same goes for areas around any other base that has a training program for foreign military (mostly NATO). Towns around naval bases are chock full of foreign military guys and galls.

You would have thought that the Iraqi army had invaded parts of eastern North Carolina when we were training those guys.
 
MildSteel said:
Support your assertion with facts. Otherwise you have made a baseless accusation.
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~OR~ expressed my opinion in a thread full of opinions on an internet forum that requests opinions.

Crimea is occupied by Russian Military Forces which denied access to the vote by international monitors.....hmmmmm.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
as long as no one is stupid enough to open fire on the russians, the russians cannot justify any further expansion.
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And the Russian were justified for this expansion, how?
 
Beaudreaux said:
Germans in the malls or restaurants or bars isn't my point. But I get what your saying. The same goes for areas around any other base that has a training program for foreign military (mostly NATO). Towns around naval bases are chock full of foreign military guys and galls.

You would have thought that the Iraqi army had invaded parts of eastern North Carolina when we were training those guys.
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I suppose some would have felt they were invaded or under occupation. :lol:

I remember back during the late 80's when a Japanese warship made a port of call at the Long Beach Naval Station. The Japanese went on liberty wearing their uniforms. The Japanese officers looked pretty sharp in their blue tunics and white trousers and swords hanging from their belts. Disneyland looked like it was invaded by the Japanese Navy.
 
NIMBY said:
I find it the usual but disappointing that over 90% of those right-wingers posting on this board
are supporting and justifying Putin's take-over in Crimea.

It makes me wonder what is making the few like you tick that feel this referendum is a farce .
Click to expand...

I believe what it really is that those "90%" "right-wingers" wish we had a competent Commander in Chief in the White House who was a leader and had a pair and didn't play checkers when Putin is playing chess.
 
Wiseone said:
Its an invasion because the government of Ukraine did not allow those Russian troops to be there, its an invasion because the Russian military has blockaded the Ukraine military in their bases and sea ports, its an invasion because the Russian military has seized control of the government and installed a puppet in a secret election in Parliament. Did you know that in the 90s Russia signed a treaty to never violate the sovereignty of the Ukraine, including in the Crimea?

What the **** else has to happen before you call it an invasion? Are you going to keep up with this absolutely ****ing stupid stance that forces you to ignore all these facts? Its not just the fact that they are there, its what they are doing while they are there.
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Russia already had troops in Crimea. And speaking of puppet governments, what you call the "government of Ukraine" is a puppet government that the US installed after Yanukovych was violently removed from office. That's what you call at gunpoint, BTW. WHY? Because the US didn't like the fact that Yanukovych preferred the 15 billion dollar deal Putin offered over what was being offered by the EU. Simple as that. That got Victoria Nuland in a hissy fit. So she decided to install her man Arseny Yatsenyuk, whom she refers to as "Yats", as Prime Minister of Ukraine. Here she is pictured with him and the other leaders of the so called "government of Ukraine" on February 6, 2014, BEFORE Yanukovych was violently overthrown, "at gunpoint."

r


Yep, the current leaders of the so called "government of Ukraine" were hand picked by the Assistant Secretary of State, Victoria Nuland. BTW here she is passing out cookies to the protesters.

1213-world-Nuland2_full_380.jpg


DANG!!! She must have been mighty pissed off for her to get out in the streets and pass out cookies!!! WOW!!!

So yeah, you can bet "Yats", the US installed puppet, better do as he is told. He doesn't want to for Victoria Nuland to kick his a$$.
 
MildSteel said:
Russia already had troops in Crimea. And speaking of puppet governments, what you call the "government of Ukraine" is a puppet government that the US installed after Yanukovych was violently removed from office. That's what you call at gunpoint, BTW. WHY? Because the US didn't like the fact that Yanukovych preferred the 15 billion dollar deal Putin offered over what was being offered by the EU. Simple as that. That got Victoria Nuland in a hissy fit. So she decided to install her man Arseny Yatsenyuk, whom she refers to as "Yats", as Prime Minister of Ukraine. Here she is pictured with him and the other leaders of the so called "government of Ukraine" on February 6, 2014, BEFORE Yanukovych was violently overthrown, "at gunpoint."

r


Yep, the current leaders of the so called "government of Ukraine" were hand picked by the Assistant Secretary of State, Victoria Nuland. BTW here she is passing out cookies to the protesters.

1213-world-Nuland2_full_380.jpg


DANG!!! She must have been mighty pissed off for her to get out in the streets and pass out cookies!!! WOW!!!

So yeah, you can "Yats" better do as he is told. He doesn't want to for Victoria Nuland to kick his a$$.
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The US did not install the new Ukrainian government, you're detached from reality.
 
Wiseone said:
The US did not install the new Ukrainian government, you're detached from reality.
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Do you really think a mob in the street installed the government? Plz

Here's Victoria Nuland

I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside.
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And here's Nuland with all three. Guess who is prime minister now? You got it, good old "Yats."

r


What, do you expect the US to issue a statement that they are installing "Yats" as prime minister?
 
MildSteel said:
Do you really think a mob in the street installed the government? Plz

Here's Victoria Nuland



And here's Nuland with all three. Guess who is prime minister now? You got it, good old "Yats."

r


What, do you expect the US to issue a statement that they are installing "Yats" as prime minister?
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I think you just said you believe in a conspiracy theory with no evidence or information, just speculation, supporting it.
 
MildSteel said:
Russia already had troops in Crimea. And speaking of puppet governments, what you call the "government of Ukraine" is a puppet government that the US installed after Yanukovych was violently removed from office. That's what you call at gunpoint, BTW. WHY? Because the US didn't like the fact that Yanukovych preferred the 15 billion dollar deal Putin offered over what was being offered by the EU. Simple as that. That got Victoria Nuland in a hissy fit. So she decided to install her man Arseny Yatsenyuk, whom she refers to as "Yats", as Prime Minister of Ukraine. Here she is pictured with him and the other leaders of the so called "government of Ukraine" on February 6, 2014, BEFORE Yanukovych was violently overthrown, "at gunpoint."

Yep, the current leaders of the so called "government of Ukraine" were hand picked by the Assistant Secretary of State, Victoria Nuland. BTW here she is passing out cookies to the protesters.

DANG!!! She must have been mighty pissed off for her to get out in the streets and pass out cookies!!! WOW!!!

So yeah, you can bet "Yats", the US installed puppet, better do as he is told. He doesn't want to for Victoria Nuland to kick his a$$.
Click to expand...

If a foreign government did 'install' a puppet leader it would probably be a good thing if it was from a democracy like the US. Or who would you have preferred?
 
Wiseone said:
I think you just said you believe in a conspiracy theory with no evidence or information, just speculation, supporting it.
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Nice try. Brush it under the rug by applying the conspiracy theory label. The picture of Victoria Nuland with Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk, Vitali Klitschko, and Oleh Tyahnybok is evidence. The picture of Victoria Nuland passing out cookies to the protesters is evidence. The transcript of the phone call where Victor Nuland says, "I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside," is evidence.

What do you need? Barack Obama to proclaim that the US installed "Yats" as prime minister?
 
Grant said:
If a foreign government did 'install' a puppet leader it would probably be a good thing if it was from a democracy like the US. Or who would you have preferred?
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I think it was a mistake, I would have preferred that the matter be settled in an election. That's what democracy is SUPPOSED to be about. The events provoked an unnecessary crisis, that if it is not handled properly could spiral into the nastiest war the world has seen. Though, as we have discussed, that scenario is not likely. Never should have come to this point. But, in a way it's a good thing. Perhaps this is moving the area to a point of settling these old issues. So maybe in the long run it's good. But at the very least, it could have been handled much, much better.
 
MildSteel said:
Nice try. Brush it under the rug by applying the conspiracy theory label. The picture of Victoria Nuland with Yarsenyi Yatsenyuk, Vitali Klitschko, and Oleh Tyahnybok is evidence. The picture of Victoria Nuland passing out cookies to the protesters is evidence. The transcript of the phone call where Victor Nuland says, "I think Yats is the guy who's got the economic experience, the governing experience. He's the... what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside," is evidence.

What do you need? Barack Obama to proclaim that the US installed "Yats" as prime minister?
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So a few members of the Ukranian government take a photograph together, one is seen passing out cookies during the protest, and this mysterious phone call you haven't mentioned before or sourced? All that is evidence that Barack Obama installed a government in Ukraine?

Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif


I was worried before that people may take you seriously, now not so much.
 
Wiseone said:
So a few members of the Ukranian government take a photograph together, one is seen passing out cookies during the protest, and this mysterious phone call you haven't mentioned before or sourced? All that is evidence that Barack Obama installed a government in Ukraine?
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LOL! Where did you go to spin school? You would make Edward Bernays proud!

It wasn't just some insignificant members of the government. It is the guy who replaced the prime minister who was violently overthrown.

And as far as the phone call goes, if anyone hasn't heard about the Victoria Nuland "f*ck the EU" phone call, they are not well informed. Of course when it first came to light, the issue was the f-word when referring to the EU. The arrogance. After "Yats" became prime minister, the ""I think Yats is the guy" stuff is more interesting.
 
lol seriously? It'd actually be more impressive if the guy that took control of the country was someone that State Department folks hadn't ever met/hung out with. What do you think foreign service people of all nations get paid to do? They're supposed to hobnob with local/national/regional players and have the inside scoop of who's power is waxing and who's power is waning. That's like...ya know...one of their vital functions?

MildSteel, you think because he was mentioned, that means he was put in charge. It's the converse: it was because he was a person who could (and, it turns out, would) be in charge that he was mentioned in the first place. You mistook for the effect for the cause. Important people get mentioned in important conversations; as opposed to being mentioned in an important conversation and then becoming important.
 
OldWorldOrder said:
lol seriously? It'd actually be more impressive if the guy that took control of the country was someone that State Department folks hadn't ever met/hung out with. What do you think foreign service people of all nations get paid to do? They're supposed to hobnob with local/national/regional players and have the inside scoop of who's power is waxing and who's power is waning. That's like...ya know...one of their vital functions?

MildSteel, you think because he was mentioned, that means he was put in charge. It's the converse: it was because he was a person who could (and, it turns out, would) be in charge that he was mentioned in the first place. You mistook for the effect for the cause. Important people get mentioned in important conversations; as opposed to being mentioned in an important conversation and then becoming important.
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To be generous, although the evidence I presented, when taken of itself it is not absolute conclusive proof, it still is substantial evidence. And furthermore when you take into consideration that the US has a well known history of overthrowing leaders that it disagrees it, the evidence presented becomes powerful. In other words if the US didn't have such a well known reputation for doing this kind of thing, your case might be stronger. But unfortunately, that's not the case. Therefore Rafeal Correa, the President of Ecuador, quipped that the only reason that there hasn't been a coup in the United States is because there is no US embassy there! lol
 
These are some lame attempts at trying to spin that the US is not responsible for their boy "Yats" becoming prime minister. Dang, Nuland flat out says "Yats is the guy."
 
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