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Crimea votes to join Russia[W:223]

Like I said, puppets do as they are demanded by people that pull the strings.

...Okay? And kites fly in the wind. That doesn't mean a plane is a kite.

It's said Nuland's guy tralied both Klitschko and Tyahnybok. It's doubtful he could have been elected democratically. He's even said he's going to be unpopular.

Okay, that's not really a puppet government.
 
...Okay? And kites fly in the wind. That doesn't mean a plane is a kite.

Planes and kites both fly due to the presence of air pressure gradients. However airplanes have specific wing designs and mechanisms for generating thrust that render them capable of sustained flight, whereas kites do not. In this way they are differentiated and we therefore do not call a plane a kite. However in a certain sense, a plane is a rather sophisticated type of kite, and someone who understands the physics of the matter would understand that, if the context was made clear.

Okay, that's not really a puppet government.

Again puppets do as they are demanded by the persons who pull the strings. It is therefore a puppet government.
 
Self determination was applied to Kosovo territorial integrity non-withstanding.

Belgrade was attempting to deport or exterminate the majority of Kosovo's population, just as they had already tried to do in Bosnia and Croatia. Territorial integrity means little when the ruling regime is ethnically cleansing various local populations until they submit.
 
Belgrade was attempting to deport or exterminate the majority of Kosovo's population, just as they had already tried to do in Bosnia and Croatia. Territorial integrity means little when the ruling regime is ethnically cleansing various local populations until they submit.

I understand what you are saying. The point is that this principle of self determination is rather charged.

Here's Robert Lansing

The more I think about the President's declaration as to the right of `self-determination', the more convinced I am of the danger of putting such ideas into the minds of certain races. It is bound to be the basis of impossible demands on the Peace Congress, and create trouble in many lands . . . . The phrase is simply loaded with dynamite. It will raise hopes which can never be realized. It will, I fear, cost thousands of lives. In the end it is bound to be discredited, to be called the dream of an idealist who failed to realize the danger until too late to check those who attempt to put the principle into force. What a calamity that the phrase was ever uttered! What misery it will cause! Think of the feelings of the author when he counts the dead who dies because he coined a phrase! A man, who is a leader of public thought, should beware of intemperate or undigested declarations. He is responsible for the consequences.

-Robert Lansing, Wilson's Secretary of State, 1918-12-30
 
So in the 21st century, who is in the running for the Hitler award besides all the misstatements by USA billionaires? With his ongoing ethnic cleansing of Tatars from Crimea, purging of LGBTs and prosecution of media thought, who could argue with Putie ?
 
Ethnic cleansing is a gross distortion with regards to Putin and Crimea.
 
I understand what you are saying. The point is that this principle of self determination is rather charged.

I agree; it's a very tricky subject, particularly when you have multiple ethnic groups who've lived side-by-side for centuries suddenly deciding that they want to be independent and going at each others' throats. I don't think the Kosovo principle applies to Crimea, however.
 
No, I've articulated my argument, and a laugh and snicker is all you've got left.

No all you have done is go USA bad Putin number 1.
Rah rah! Putin he's your man if he cant annex no one can!
 
I agree; it's a very tricky subject, particularly when you have multiple ethnic groups who've lived side-by-side for centuries suddenly deciding that they want to be independent and going at each others' throats. I don't think the Kosovo principle applies to Crimea, however.

No it doesn't equate. Putin has announced he is going to use Stalin's "relocation" tactics towards all who are not white ethnic Russians. The way to avoid Kosovo in his opinion is to kill or send all minorities off to Siberia and work camps. Then there is no ethnic violence.
 
No it doesn't equate. Putin has announced he is going to use Stalin's "relocation" tactics towards all who are not white ethnic Russians. The way to avoid Kosovo in his opinion is to kill or send all minorities off to Siberia and work camps. Then there is no ethnic violence.

Do you have a resource to back your assertion?
 
I agree; it's a very tricky subject, particularly when you have multiple ethnic groups who've lived side-by-side for centuries suddenly deciding that they want to be independent and going at each others' throats. I don't think the Kosovo principle applies to Crimea, however.

Indeed it is tricky. But it's a principle that is enshrined in the UN charter. Robert Lansing's words may turn out to be prophetic.
 
That's not the point. If you can use a bureaucratic tweaking sixty years ago to justify the violation of Ukraine's territorial integrity, then I can use the genocide of non-Russians that occurred 70 and 80 years ago to justify Ukraine keeping Crimea.

Crimea was not part of the Ukraine 70 or 80 years ago. It was part of the Russian SSR, of the USSR. In 1954, Nikita Kruschev, who was Ukranian himself, gave Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR. Since his departure, Russian leaders have been looking for an excuse to give Crimea back to Russia. They found that excuse this year.
 
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Crimea was not part of the Ukraine 70 or 80 years ago. It was part of the Russian SSR, of the USSR. In 1954, Nikita Kruschev, who was Ukranian himself, gave Crimea to the Ukrainian SSR. Since his departure, Russian leaders have been looking for an excuse to give Crimea back to Russia. They found that excuse this year.

Well they found the opportunity anyway.
 
Do you have a resource to back your assertion?

There is another thread about Putin is going to relocate Tartar Muslims again like Stalin did.
 
Strangled? Interesting term. For what reason? The war wing (neo-cons) of American politics and those in Europe that give them lip service can not be satiated by anything less than perpetual warfare, which they themselves will gladly send others to fight, since they usually will not go themselves. Liberty and freedom they realize are fast slipping away from them as tools that can be easily used to encourage Americans to any longer fight their wars, for their trumpets of these terms now ring so hollow. How dare Russia put their country so close to our military bases. *wink*

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There is another thread about Putin is going to relocate Tartar Muslims again like Stalin did.

I would like to see your evidence before I decide what to think.
 
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