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Nasa-funded study: industrial civilisation headed for 'irreversible collapse'?[W:76]

There certainly is a way off this rock, there are people orbiting above it as we speak. The issue is a reliable, cheap, and ideally reusable lifter to get us to orbit and beyond. Fortunately we're undergoing a veritable renaissance in space development driven largely (but not exclusively) by the emergence of the commercial space sector. There are multiple competing plans for a reusable space vehicle and no small hope that one of them may succeed. Hundreds of years? I really don't think so.

Plus if we really, really needed to there are ways to throw a ton of mass into orbit (and beyond) that we could opt to.

Ok I should have been more specific.

There is no permanent way off of this rock.

No technology can get us to another world to live on which was the point ofthe discussion. We are centuries if not millenis away from such technological ability.

Going into orbit is meaningless to this end
 
Really? So we don't have an International Space Station? NASA has not in the past launched maned space flights? We didn't travel to the moon? For there being no way off this rock, we seem to have had quite a few who left it for a short time.

Yes for a short time.

There is no way off permanently.
 
Ok I should have been more specific.

There is no permanent way off of this rock.

No technology can get us to another world to live on which was the point ofthe discussion. We are centuries if not millenis away from such technological ability.

Going into orbit is meaningless to this end

Virtually no advocates of space colonization or the exploitation of its resources are practical advocates of interstellar or even intrasolar planetary colonization. Getting to orbit cheaply is however incredibly important if you are going to begin constructing orbital colonies built with the prodigious resources available to us within the inner solar system, starting with the moon. Once you have a cheap and reliable way to get to orbit the possibilities are endless. Will we see it in our lifetime? I'm fairly young so I hope so, but it certainly (barring some cataclysm) isn't centuries off at all.
 
Then they don't need government assistance. They need to spend wisely and live within their means.

40 hours a week for minimum wage pays for housing in exactly zero states.
 
40 hours a week for minimum wage pays for housing in exactly zero states.

Single family dwelling, that may be true. But it does pay for housing. They get and deserve what they earn, nothing more. If that is a mat in a flop house, oh well, they should do something to improve themselves. If they are too lazy to, then they get what they earn.

And it does, in many areas. Thats 1160+ a month which is less than the average for housing in almost every town in Texas and other states.
 
They get and deserve what they earn, nothing more.

The ultimate failure of conservatism and libertarianism can be found right here.
 
Virtually no advocates of space colonization or the exploitation of its resources are practical advocates of interstellar or even intrasolar planetary colonization. Getting to orbit cheaply is however incredibly important if you are going to begin constructing orbital colonies built with the prodigious resources available to us within the inner solar system, starting with the moon. Once you have a cheap and reliable way to get to orbit the possibilities are endless. Will we see it in our lifetime? I'm fairly young so I hope so, but it certainly (barring some cataclysm) isn't centuries off at all.

You're not really talking about mining the moon are you?
 
You're not really talking about mining the moon are you?

Among other things. The lunar regolith is what you want to refine, asteroids and other natural debris are likely better bets for bulk construction.
 
Among other things. The lunar regolith is what you want to refine, asteroids and other natural debris are likely better bets for bulk construction.

The moon is a very useful thing. It's gravitation force stabilizes the Earth's orbit around the sun, gives us oceanic tides, and serves as a middleman between us and some potentially dangerous comets and asteroids. People should think about that before reducing its mass or otherwise ripping chunks out of it to harvest materials. Personally, I don't think we should be playing around with the moons in our solar system unless you're talking about something like harvesting methane from Titan.
 
Bull****. NASA has been studying it for decades. They know how to do it, they just cannot afford to do it because we waste way to much money on the lazy welfare crowd.

I think it's because we waste too much money on fighter planes that don't work.
 
Bull****. NASA has been studying it for decades. They know how to do it, they just cannot afford to do it because we waste way to much money on the lazy welfare crowd.

Wrong it is simple scientific fact there is no way to do it and this is not something which can be kept secret.
 
What else did they "prove" in this study?
It is a study and not a theory. As such they are not out to prove anything, but draw intelligent and reasonable conclusions, something that you prefer to oppose for some reason.

That pigs can fly and aliens visited Mars?
As I said, intelligent and reasonable conclusions.

This study is little more then an opinion.
No it is a study and it has a conclusion,

There is no way they can reach any such conclusion based on the "evidence" they presented.
Really? And what expertise do you have that prompts this assertion on your part? So far you only referred to flying pigs and that I am afraid is not a very encouraging credential, but by all means, do provide your own conclusions or point out the errors in the study.
 
why is nasa making this study and not an anthropological group?

also, i hope they are wrong and its at least 60 years away so that my kids will have had times to live their lives completely.
And therein is the problem. You wish YOUR kids to be well. While that is somewhat a natural reaction it is not a wise one and ultimately self defeating.
 
Just a 'few' items in this story to stir up discussion



Items to discuss

" high levels of economic stratification are linked directly to overconsumption of resources"

under conditions "closely reflecting the reality of the world today... we find that collapse is difficult to avoid."

how do we humans " reduce economic inequality" and also find a way " to dramatically reduce resource consumption "??

work by KPMG and the UK's Government Office for Science shows that resource exploitation could create a "perfect storm" of civilisational-ending crises by 2030.

I think we are pretty near to a collapse of the global economy due to rising inequality and automation. Here is how this will work:

1. Middle class consumers keep the economy running smoothly. Automation, however, guts the middle class, pushing the wealth to both the bottom and the top, with the top getting the lion's share.

2. With fewer middle class consumers, the economy begins to slow down.

3. In order to stay alive in a down economy, businesses look into automating even more than before -- automation investments increase.

4. But this further guts the middle class, and the cycle continues.

I know people don't believe me, but I'll say it again anyhow: we are less than a decade away from a collapse of the global system. I think the downturn will begin by about 2020, maybe even a little earlier. Right now, computers and software are having an effect on inequality and jobs; and the effect will continue to grow at ever accelerating rates in the coming years. Intelligent software will improve dramatically, and businesses will not be able to resist using it to replace workers. The net effect is something like between 5 and 15% of jobs lost due to automation (and not recovered by other, newer jobs) by 2020 -- add that to job loss and inequality coming from other places, and you have a very serious unemployment and/or inequality crisis on your hands.

I think that Occupy Wall Street will rise from the ashes like a Phoenix in the coming years, and we will see a massive protest movement in industrial countries that's going to make the French Revolution look like the Whiskey Rebellion in comparison. The end of capitalism is coming sooner than you think.
 
I think we are pretty near to a collapse of the global economy due to rising inequality and automation. Here is how this will work:

1. Middle class consumers keep the economy running smoothly. Automation, however, guts the middle class, pushing the wealth to both the bottom and the top, with the top getting the lion's share.

2. With fewer middle class consumers, the economy begins to slow down.

3. In order to stay alive in a down economy, businesses look into automating even more than before -- automation investments increase.

4. But this further guts the middle class, and the cycle continues.

I know people don't believe me, but I'll say it again anyhow: we are less than a decade away from a collapse of the global system. I think the downturn will begin by about 2020, maybe even a little earlier. Right now, computers and software are having an effect on inequality and jobs; and the effect will continue to grow at ever accelerating rates in the coming years. Intelligent software will improve dramatically, and businesses will not be able to resist using it to replace workers. The net effect is something like between 5 and 15% of jobs lost due to automation (and not recovered by other, newer jobs) by 2020 -- add that to job loss and inequality coming from other places, and you have a very serious unemployment and/or inequality crisis on your hands.

I think that Occupy Wall Street will rise from the ashes like a Phoenix in the coming years, and we will see a massive protest movement in industrial countries that's going to make the French Revolution look like the Whiskey Rebellion in comparison. The end of capitalism is coming sooner than you think.
If OWS got thier way we'll all be living in misery sans an elite few. History shows the dismal failure of socialism.
 
If OWS got thier way we'll all be living in misery sans an elite few. History shows the dismal failure of socialism.

Rather history shows us the "dismal failure" of societies that used the term "socialism" to cover up dictatorships led by megalomaniacs. Some of the oldest organisations in the world are socialistic - monastic orders are fine examples of how pure communism can work but only in relatively small groups in which every member believes the basic tenets of the group. Communism just doesn't work for nations, humans are never going to all agree that just one way is the only way. Democratic socialism does work because it allows the members to express their views without fear. It can provide opportunities for citizens who otherwise would not have such opportunities. Modern democratic socialism accepts the reality that not all means of production should be held in common, there should be some competition in the market place but you will have more competitors when you have more people not worrying about the basic necessities of life.
 
Rather history shows us the "dismal failure" of societies that used the term "socialism" to cover up dictatorships led by megalomaniacs. Some of the oldest organisations in the world are socialistic - monastic orders are fine examples of how pure communism can work but only in relatively small groups in which every member believes the basic tenets of the group. Communism just doesn't work for nations, humans are never going to all agree that just one way is the only way. Democratic socialism does work because it allows the members to express their views without fear. It can provide opportunities for citizens who otherwise would not have such opportunities. Modern democratic socialism accepts the reality that not all means of production should be held in common, there should be some competition in the market place but you will have more competitors when you have more people not worrying about the basic necessities of life.
Or worrying about improving your life ad the more you work and earn the more you are forced to give up.
 
What makes you think that? Is that the war you feel about your comments?
Was asking for clarification. Thats all. Forum communication can lead to misunderstandings
 
The NASA mission has now morphed from running the national space shuttle service to conducting income inequality studies? It may be time to defund this bunch of "experts".

You forgot climate change.
 
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