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Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group[W:157]

Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

Oh, I see....10,000 troops from the US in Afghanistan is imperialistic, but, 20,000 inside Crimea, and 80,000 more massed on the borders is a police action when it is 'Mother Russia' eh comrade?

Even Obama stated, on the campaign trail in 08' (which was the precise moment he lost any chance of my vote) that he would "attack AQ inside Pakistan, with or without the Pakistani governments permission". He kept good on that promise, too!
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

False. That was just bs spewed all over fox news by bush's failed cronies. Bush never had any intelligence on bin laden. And obama hasn't reduced military spending at all. You do know there are two wars ending in his administration?

Good gawd, where do you get your information? That was a long, protracted process by the CIA to identify where bin Laden was hiding. Many years in the making.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

We were using them in Ukraine. Russia downed the drone IN UKRAINE. Please read the op.

...yes, I was being sarcastic.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

Oh it's not. It would just appear that the US, supported by many of you here, believe it is a matter for the US.
It is a matter for the US, as well as all other countries of the world, but it is not the responsibility of the US alone.

I would be delighted for us to focus on the burden of our domestic problems and leave that issue to Russia and the Ukraine to resolve, with involvement of the EU, only in the event that all the fear mongering and comparisons between Putin and Hitler, and Putins alleged designs on Europe beyond Ukraine, were to materialise.

BHO focusing on domestic problems hasn't led to a great deal of success. A diversion may be just what he needs. Comparisons between Putin and Hitler are inescapable and most everyone recognizes that.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

Yes she did, under much deserved criticism. And she was pandering to a private party for fundraising in which no press was invited.

Hillary Rodham Clinton has sparked a political uproar this week by wading into the middle of the ongoing conflict in Ukraine, likening the moves of Russian President Vladimir Putin to the actions of Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler leading up to World War II.

The former secretary of state’s provocative comparison drew swift rebukes Wednesday from U.S.-Russia policy experts — including some who served under her husband, former president Bill Clinton — while attracting rare notes of support from hawkish Republicans in Congress.

Hillary Clinton’s Putin-Hitler comments draw rebukes as she wades into Ukraine conflict - The Washington Post

Notice, only warmongering hawks supported her, as is typical.

Ronald Reagan also received the 'swift rebuke' treatment when he called Russia the "Evil Empire", though of course, like Hillary, he was quite correct.

The only 'warmongering hawk' right now is Vladimir Putin. That should be clear enough to everyone, as are the comparisons between him and Hitler.

Will Putin continue into the Ukraine to starve millions of Ukrainian people like one of his predecessors did? Or attempt a 'final solution'? Probably not in today's world because of spy satellites.. But his excuse for entering the Ukraine certainly remains similar to Hitler's.
Bobo Lo argues that Vladimir Putin's strategy bears striking similarities to Hitler's in 1938. - Project Syndicate
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

While they invade another country? Cry me a river.

1.They were already there.
2.The people there voted break away from the Ukraine.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

I hope people like you, understand the danger. Sooner or later. But it is important that it wasn't too late.

There is no one else like me. I'm one of a kind.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

Kennedy was a bit less naive than Obama, but he still got us into Vietnam, and lets not forget the bay of pigs.

He didn't get us into a war with Cuba, did he?

There is no way to know to know for sure what Kennedy might have done, but it is known that Lyndon Johnson did commit a half million troops to an unnecessary war in Vietnam.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

"Most likely"? So now you have a crystal ball huh? Look Ditto, despite your revisionist history lesson here the facts remain that----

"By 1963, there were 16,000 American military personnel in South Vietnam, up from Eisenhower's 900 advisors.[151]"

and further

"The Strategic Hamlet Program had been initiated in 1961. This joint U.S.-South Vietnamese program attempted to resettle the rural population into fortified camps. The aim was to isolate the population from the insurgents, provide reeducation programs and health care, and strengthen the government's hold over the countryside. The Strategic Hamlets, however, were quickly infiltrated by the guerrillas. The peasants resented being uprooted from their ancestral villages. In part, this was because Colonel Pham Ngoc Thao, a Diệm favorite who was instrumental in running the program, was in fact a communist agent who used his Catholicism to gain influential posts and damage South Vietnam from the inside."

Then we have-----

"U.S military advisors were embedded at every level of the South Vietnamese armed forces. They were, however, almost completely ignorant of the political nature of the insurgency. The insurgency was a political power struggle, in which military engagements were not the main goal.[158] The Kennedy administration sought to refocus U.S. efforts on pacification and "winning over the hearts and minds" of the population."

Vietnam War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wow, where have we heard that strategy recently? Oh yeah, from the Bush administration....Whenever the US gets involved in "Nation Building" we do it poorly, and usually with not nearly enough force to make it stick. Kennedy was weak in his pacifism, and Khrushchev knew it, and exploited it, especially in VN...

To look at what Kennedy would have, or wouldn't have done in concerns, I don't think that increasing troop levels would have been off the table with him, after all he tripled the numbers in his time. And remember his own words:

"pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and success of liberty."

The problem with liberals, and academics is that they often cherry pick what they want to believe about a President, and often re write the narrative to fit that, even if it just isn't so.

I'm really not sure what any of that has to do with "liberal" vs. "conservative" as both presidents were Democrats anyway, or how Kennedy's "pacifism" indicates he would have gotten embroiled in the big muddy the way Johnson did. In fact, if he was a "pacifist", that makes it even less likely that he would have done so, doesn't it?

Would Kennedy have sent a half million soldiers into Vietnam to fight a war on false assumptions? Would he have wound up abdicating the presidency as his successor did? There is no way to know, of course. Oswald saw to it that we could never definitively answer that question. Given Kennedy's leadership during the Cuban Missile crisis, it seems unlikely that he would have fallen for the "domino theory" or the "my country right or wrong" hawks.


But, of course, there is no way to prove he would have or wouldn't have.

Oh, BTW, it was Mao, not Khrushchev who was supporting the Vietnamese.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

He didn't get us into a war with Cuba, did he?

There is no way to know to know for sure what Kennedy might have done, but it is known that Lyndon Johnson did commit a half million troops to an unnecessary war in Vietnam.

LBJ merely continued Kennedys policy of expanding our military presence in vietnam. Kennedy was an anti communist and very much a hawk.
John Fitzgerald Kennedy was a fervent believer in containing communism. In his first speech on becoming president, Kennedy made it clear that he would continue the policy of the former President, Dwight Eisenhower, and support the government of Diem in South Vietnam. Kennedy also made it plain that he supported the ‘Domino Theory’ and he was convinced that if South Vietnam fell to communism, then other states in the region would as a consequence. This Kennedy was not prepared to contemplate.

Kennedy received conflicting advice with regards to Vietnam. Charles De Gaulle warned Kennedy that Vietnam and warfare in Vietnam would trap America in a “bottomless military and political swamp”. This was based on the experience the French had at Dien Bien Phu, which left a sizeable psychological scar of French foreign policy for some years. However, Kennedy had more daily contact with ‘hawks’ in Washington DC who believed that American forces would be far better equipped and prepared for conflict in Vietnam than the French had been. They believed that just a small increase in US support for Diem would ensure success in Vietnam. The ‘hawks’ in particular were strong supporters in the ‘Domino Theory’.
John F Kennedy and Vietnam
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

IKE/Nixon took over Vietnam from the French in 1954 and Nixon took over from LBJ in 1969 and finished his Vietnam war. Ain't revision grand? Wars have overlapped administrations forever. Only hackish posters claim otherwise .
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

So whats the chump in chief going to do now? Nothing, thats what.
Obama_Poster_Che_Chump.gif

And when the U-2 was shot down by the Soviets, the Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy were totally like "Hell yes, we were spying on you folks! If you don't give us back our pilot we will blow you to hell!"

Oh wait, they didn't.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

You do understand the bin Laden capture was based on intelligence that began during Bush's term, right?

And now your dear leader has decided we need to reduce military spending and troop numbers. How perfectly convenient for the enemy that is.

For the record, Obama did not decide to reduce military spending... that was an act of Congress. If you remember correctly, Congress, as a group, preferred the draconian cuts of sequestration over a deal that would reduce deficits through a combination of measured cuts, entitlement restructuring and tax increases.... For the record, Congress cut military spending...
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

And when the U-2 was shot down by the Soviets, the Presidents Eisenhower and Kennedy were totally like "Hell yes, we were spying on you folks! If you don't give us back our pilot we will blow you to hell!"

Oh wait, they didn't.

Your analogy is flawed...the U-2 was flying over the Soviet Union, comrade. This drone was flying (with permission) over Ukraine. See how it works?
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

Your analogy is flawed...the U-2 was flying over the Soviet Union, comrade. This drone was flying (with permission) over Ukraine. See how it works?

Ah no, it's still relevant. Russia has control over the drone. What do you expect our President to do in this situation, exactly? They have our technology, they embarrassed us a tiny bit, but what do you want, really? Stomp around demanding they "give it back"?
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

Ah no, it's still relevant. Russia has control over the drone. What do you expect our President to do in this situation, exactly? They have our technology, they embarrassed us a tiny bit, but what do you want, really? Stomp around demanding they "give it back"?

Not really, it was a poor analogy.

There was a time when the US had a strong leader who wasn't constantly punked by 2nd world thugs, and the US had a cohesive and strong foreign policy. These actions didn't occur. But now we have a chump in office, and so we can expect these things to get worse. Our allies are watching this.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

Not really, it was a poor analogy.

There was a time when the US had a strong leader who wasn't constantly punked by 2nd world thugs, and the US had a cohesive and strong foreign policy. These actions didn't occur. But now we have a chump in office, and so we can expect these things to get worse. Our allies are watching this.

That's a really stupid thought. Here's why. When a spyplane would inevitably be shot down by an enemy, the U.S. covered up its operations, didn't press the matter, and went on its way until the only human part of the mess could be solved diplomatically. The Soviets capitalized on this embarrassment, which lasted for years, and even altered our perception of Soviet military might, further embarrassing Kennedy's campaign slogans once he was in office. This "we used to have a strong leader" crap is just pure nonsense.

Go on, what's the President to do right now about this drone thing. The Russians have it, what's he to do about it? How does he make better of this so he doesn't become a "chump"?
 
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Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

That's a really stupid thought. Here's why. When a spyplane would inevitably be shot down by an enemy, the U.S. covered up its operations, didn't press the matter, and went on its way until the only human part of the mess could be solved diplomatically. The Soviets capitalized on this embarrassment, which lasted for years, and even altered our perception of Soviet military might, further embarrassing Kennedy's campaign slogans once he was in office. This "we used to have a strong leader" crap is just pure nonsense.

Go on, what's the President to do right now about this drone thing. The Russians have it, what's he to do about it? How does he make better of this so he doesn't become a "chump"?

Like I said, our leader being weak has emboldened nations like Russia and China. Our allies trust the US less, and our enemies will fill the vacuum.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

Like I said, our leader being weak has emboldened nations like Russia and China. Our allies trust the US less, and our enemies will fill the vacuum.

Yes, you did say that, however, your first thought (in the second post) was:

So whats the chump in chief going to do now? Nothing, thats what.

What's he supposed to do? I thought this was a simple question to ask someone who demanded action, but apparently it's more difficult than I thought!
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

Bin Ladin wasn't killed. Every possible way to confirm he had been killed in the raid was promptly destroyed.

Take it to the conspiracy board.
 
Moscow (AFP) - A United States surveillance drone has been intercepted above the Ukranian region of Crimea, a Russian state arms and technology group said Friday.

"The drone was flying at about 4,000 metres (12,000 feet) and was virtually invisible from the ground. It was possible to break the link with US operators with complex radio-electronic" technology, said Rostec in a statement. The drone fell "almost intact into the hands of self-defence forces" added Rostec, which said it had manufactured the equipment used to down the aircraft, but did not specify who was operating it.

Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

I am going to file this with the reports that American paratroopers were marching in Crimea.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

You gotta remember, when someone is quite overtly rooting for (*******), they'll use whatever propaganda they can dredge up.

Insert any country.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

I keep reading about how Kennedy was a strong leader who would have gotten us involved in Vietnam had he not been assassinated, and about how we need a strong leader today.

I wonder just what war this strong leader should start for us today.
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

It is a matter for the US, as well as all other countries of the world, but it is not the responsibility of the US alone.



BHO focusing on domestic problems hasn't led to a great deal of success. A diversion may be just what he needs. Comparisons between Putin and Hitler are inescapable and most everyone recognizes that.

A BHO diversion is going to improve domestic problems???

And no, it's not most everyone that sees a Putin/Hitler connection. Just those who don't want to miss a chance at war with Russia. Did you see the flack that Hillary Clinton took for making such a connection?
 
Re: Russia says intercepted US drone over Crimea: arms group

Ronald Reagan also received the 'swift rebuke' treatment when he called Russia the "Evil Empire", though of course, like Hillary, he was quite correct.

The only 'warmongering hawk' right now is Vladimir Putin. That should be clear enough to everyone, as are the comparisons between him and Hitler.

Will Putin continue into the Ukraine to starve millions of Ukrainian people like one of his predecessors did? Or attempt a 'final solution'? Probably not in today's world because of spy satellites.. But his excuse for entering the Ukraine certainly remains similar to Hitler's.
Bobo Lo argues that Vladimir Putin's strategy bears striking similarities to Hitler's in 1938. - Project Syndicate

NO, there is no similarity whatsoever, and you dismiss Western intrigue that sabotaged Putins fair and on top of the table negotiations with Ukraine. This is what you can deal with now.
 
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