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New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Aunt Spiker

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New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room - ABC News

Women in New Jersey can block a baby's father from the delivery room. A state judge, citing a woman's right to privacy, ruled that mothers can decide who will be with them when giving birth.
Plotnick's attorney, Laura Nunnink, tells The Star-Ledger of Newark ( NJ court ruling blocking newborn's dad from delivery room is first in nation | NJ.com ) it was important to her client to bond with the baby. DeLuccia's lawyer, Joanna Brick, says DeLuccia allowed Plotnick to visit, and his lawyer says he saw the child.

[The following is a quote from the link nested inside the article:

The ruling settled a legal dispute that was argued the very day the woman gave birth. Superior Court Judge Sohail Mohammed said all patients — and pregnant women especially — enjoy strong privacy protections that let them decide who can be at their hospital bedside.
Fathers, on the other hand, have no established legal right to be present at the birth of their children, the judge wrote.
"Any interest a father has before the child’s birth is subordinate to the mother’s interests," Mohammed wrote. "Even when there is no doubt that a father has shown deep and proper concern and interest in the growth and development of the fetus, the mother is the one who must carry it to term."]

Thoughts?

So the elements in question:
1) Is being a witness to a birth essential to bond with said child?
2) Is the birthing room a matter of the mother's personal privacy?

Of course, this isn't a broad ruling that applies to everyone (every state, etc). Hospitals have their own rules and guidelines they follow - and so forth. States can rule to the contrary. If hospitals they want to change their guidelines they must make an effort to do so. Most err with the side of the mother (which is what led to this case).

I support the ruling and the concept: Being a witness to a birth is not a right. It is a privilege that should be extended to fathers at the decision of the mother per her comfort.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

A) they weren't married.
B) they were "estranged".

He's got no case, nor should he.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Even though the father will certainly be disappointed, I can side with the judge here.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

1) Is being a witness to a birth essential to bond with said child?
No it is not as evidenced by the fact that in many places in the world fathers are not allowed in the delivery room. Recall from movies the pacing fathers to be in waiting rooms, only to be informed after the fact that the child was born?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

A) they weren't married.
B) they were "estranged".

He's got no case, nor should he.

Even if they were married, she should have privacy rights.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

The ruling settled a legal dispute that was argued the very day the woman gave birth. Superior Court Judge Sohail Mohammed said all patients — and pregnant women especially — enjoy strong privacy protections that let them decide who can be at their hospital bedside.
Fathers, on the other hand, have no established legal right to be present at the birth of their children, the judge wrote.
"Any interest a father has before the child’s birth is subordinate to the mother’s interests," Mohammed wrote. "Even when there is no doubt that a father has shown deep and proper concern and interest in the growth and development of the fetus, the mother is the one who must carry it to term."]

Wow, I think this is the key sentence for many aspects of paternal rights v maternal rights. One could easily expand that to
"any interest any party has before the child's birth is subordinate to the mother's interests."
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

No it is not as evidenced by the fact that in many places in the world fathers are not allowed in the delivery room. Recall from movies the pacing fathers to be in waiting rooms, only to be informed after the fact that the child was born?

We already know that new fathers sometimes change their views towards their wives and see them more as mother of their child and less as a lover, so I wonder how much this dynamic is amplified by witnessing the trauma of birth? Clearly not every man is bothered and clearly not every man forms such mental associations.

For those who do form these mental associations, what is the best result in the trade-off - witness the birth of your child but lower your sexual desire for your wife or don't witness the birth and maintain the image of your wife from her pre-birth status?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Even if they were married, she should have privacy rights.

The exercise of rights carries consequences too. If this was a case of a married couple then I would assume that the woman's position would cause a lot of problems in the marriage - denying her husband the non-replaceable experience of being there when his child is born. That's a pretty big slap in the face.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

it may be emotional, it may suck etc etc


but SHE decides who and when people see her yahoo and who has access to her medical and personal privacy. :shrug:
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

We already know that new fathers sometimes change their views towards their wives and see them more as mother of their child and less as a lover, so I wonder how much this dynamic is amplified by witnessing the trauma of birth? Clearly not every man is bothered and clearly not every man forms such mental associations.

For those who do form these mental associations, what is the best result in the trade-off - witness the birth of your child but lower your sexual desire for your wife or don't witness the birth and maintain the image of your wife from her pre-birth status?
Since the men losing interest in "mothers" has been around since before fathers were allowed in the birthing room, I think it has a lot more to do with the woman becoming regularly exhausted and regularly focusing on children that is the key to men not feeling as though they are the center of the woman's world. Without that, men seem to lose interest. Additionally there's the whole Madonna/Magdalen issue.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I think it's ****. If I'm the father I have a right to see the child.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room - ABC News



Thoughts?

So the elements in question:
1) Is being a witness to a birth essential to bond with said child?
2) Is the birthing room a matter of the mother's personal privacy?

Of course, this isn't a broad ruling that applies to everyone (every state, etc). Hospitals have their own rules and guidelines they follow - and so forth. States can rule to the contrary. If hospitals they want to change their guidelines they must make an effort to do so. Most err with the side of the mother (which is what led to this case).

I support the ruling and the concept: Being a witness to a birth is not a right. It is a privilege that should be extended to fathers at the decision of the mother per her comfort.

Since we require fathers to share in the financial burden of supporting the child, they should have the right to be there at birth. Unless of course, the relationship between the father and mother is so strained that it causes the mother an unreasonable level of emotional distress.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I think it's ****. If I'm the father I have a right to see the child.
He got to see the child, just not the birth itself. As Agent J suggests above, a woman gets to decide who sees her hoohah, both if and when.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

He got to see the child, just not the birth itself. As Agent J suggests above, a woman gets to decide who sees her hoohah, both if and when.

It's ****. It's my child as well as hers. She has no right to stop me from seeing it being born. I'm absolutely sick of mothers being permitted to step on the rights of fathers.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Since we require fathers to share in the financial burden of supporting the child, they should have the right to be there at birth. Unless of course, the relationship between the father and mother is so strained that it causes the mother an unreasonable level of emotional distress.

And who better to determine what an unreasonable level of stress is,.... oh, right, the birthing mother.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

He got to see the child, just not the birth itself. As Agent J suggests above, a woman gets to decide who sees her hoohah, both if and when.

correct there was no denial of seeing the child
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

It's ****. It's my child as well as hers. She has no right to stop me from seeing it being born.
Yes, she does. Her body, her hospital room, her condition being addressed. You've got no medical reason to be there. It's only been very recently that anyone except properly presented medical personnel were allowed in the birthing room. I suggest if you don't want to be in this position, be very careful who you choose to get pregnant.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

It's ****. It's my child as well as hers. She has no right to stop me from seeing it being born. I'm absolutely sick of mothers being permitted to step on the rights of fathers.

They're estranged. He has a right to see the child AFTER it's born. He doesn't get to be in the room for ANY sort of medical procedure, including birth unless she says he can.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

And who better to determine what an unreasonable level of stress is,.... oh, right, the birthing mother.

I think her input is important. But she should be able to demonstrate to a objective 3rd party that it would indeed be the case. I would feel differently about it if we didn't require fathers to share in the financial burden of supporting a child.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Since the men losing interest in "mothers" has been around since before fathers were allowed in the birthing room, I think it has a lot more to do with the woman becoming regularly exhausted and regularly focusing on children that is the key to men not feeling as though they are the center of the woman's world. Without that, men seem to lose interest. Additionally there's the whole Madonna/Magdalen issue.

This is what I'm talking about but I'm extending the question further. Pre-children, when the husband looks at the naked wife, or to be specific, a sexual organ, he is sexually excited. Keep in mind that I'm not talking about every guy here, but I suspect that there are guys who after witnessing birth can't see their wife, or that region of her body, in the same way or it takes them a while to purge the imagery.

So, IF THIS IS TRUE, then these men trade a supposedly closer bond with their children in exchange for a lesser sexual bond with their wives. I wonder if anyone has studied this?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

They're estranged. He has a right to see the child AFTER it's born. He doesn't get to be in the room for ANY sort of medical procedure, including birth unless she says he can.

He can simply sue her for financial damage to compensate him for the loss of an irreplaceable experience. Simple.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Yes, she does. Her body, her hospital room, her condition being addressed. You've got no medical reason to be there. It's only been very recently that anyone except properly presented medical personnel were allowed in the birthing room. I suggest if you don't want to be in this position, be very careful who you choose to get pregnant.

I don't need a medical reason to be there and how in the hell am I acting towards her body by being in the room? Get real. Her right to her body doesn't extend towards the entirety of the room. She doesn't own the damn room. I can be where I damn well please, and I have a right to the child, just as she does. I have a right see my child being born, period.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I think her input is important. But she should be able to demonstrate to a objective 3rd party that it would indeed be the case. I would feel differently about it if we didn't require fathers to share in the financial burden of supporting a child.

That requirement would put an unreasonable burden on any woman's stress level. Ever heard of hormones, women are jacked up like crazy while pregnant, no one should expect them to be perfectly rational, and to try to prove something to a judgmental third party???? FTS.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I don't need a medical reason to be there and how in hell I am acting towards her body by being in the room? Get real. Her right to her body doesn't extend towards the entirety of the room. She doesn't own the damn room. I can be where I damn well please, and I have a right to the child, just as she does. I have a right see my child being born, period.

Actually for anything except birth yes, you do. Sorry. And again, only recently-ish have men been allowed at births at all due to the lack of medical necessity of a man being there. Hospitals are NOT there for you observe other people's conditions, unless or until you are invited and approved by the med staff.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Wow, I think this is the key sentence for many aspects of paternal rights v maternal rights. One could easily expand that to "any interest any party has before the child's birth is subordinate to the mother's interests."

You don't seem to grasp that some people consider a fetus to be a person. How can you say to them that the "child's" right to life is subordinate to the mother's right to privacy? That just doesn't work with any intellectual honesty.
 
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