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New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

In other news, the child has now entered college as political hacks continue to argue.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

What does not having to be able to be in the delivery room has to do with his parenting role? She has as of yet not claimed he could not be a parent for that child. And as a parent of that child (something that does not only happen if he was able to see the birth take place) he has to pay for his child. He wants the child to be his so he is going to have to pay.

Really, that kind of all or none thinking is amazing when it comes to parenting.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

LOLOLOL

He is completely irrelevant to the situation, totally unneeded, and according to the mother & medical statistics, could actually be detrimental.

He's not in the least important to the delivery...it will take place even if he is dead.

Unless SHE see's it that way, he has ZERO value in the delivery room. And she has made it clear she does not.

If he wishes to be more than a sperm donor, he has 18 years to prove it...countdown starts post vag-exit.

Apparently all we have to do is knock you out with a rock and you're irrelevant too. Zonk you out, cut you up, take the baby, stitch you up, and kick you out.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

What does not having to be able to be in the delivery room has to do with his parenting role?

simple answer it doesnt but some are trying, and failing, to convince others it does.

He'll be a parent either way :shrug:
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

If that's the case, don't seek any support for the child...

The woman in the story specifically put his name on the approved visitors list so that he can hold and bond with his child. Being there for the delivery means nothing. Explain to me how you could abandon your child just because you didn't observe his/her birth? What a selfish ass thing to say.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Lursa said:
LOLOLOL

He is completely irrelevant to the situation, totally unneeded, and according to the mother & medical statistics, could actually be detrimental.

He's not in the least important to the delivery...it will take place even if he is dead.

Unless SHE see's it that way, he has ZERO value in the delivery room. And she has made it clear she does not.

If he wishes to be more than a sperm donor, he has 18 years to prove it...countdown starts post vag-exit.


Apparently all we have to do is knock you out with a rock and you're irrelevant too. Zonk you out, cut you up, take the baby, stitch you up, and kick you out.

As long as the woman agrees to it. :)

Seems like ya made my point for me.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I disagree about the morality issue - hell yes morality has a consideration - how moral is it to further stress out a woman in labor who already is physically and emotionally stressed.

For whatever her reasons are - he is upsetting to her. They broke up. Why is it so odd that after breaking up she would not want him seeing her at her most physically and emotionally vulnerable?

There are many issues of "unfairness" towards the father in law ---this will never ever be one of them.

But it is very easily solved from a legal standpoint. It is blatantly obvious he has not legal right to be here.

All rights that never previously existed, were first established when someone spoke to the need to have them. The main burden on the bringer of these new rights is to show that by not having them a material harm would be caused to the one without the right. In this case, we have a right hat already exists, the right to privacy, and we have a man that had no right to invade her privacy, so he did what was the only thing he could do. He went to court to establish that right. The court needs to weigh the degree of material harm that would fall on the man seeking this new right against the already established right to this woman's privacy. In the Judges opinion, she erred on the side of the Mother, HOWEVER, she did not nor did the Mother from what I can tell, made a showing of how if this man was allowed to be there that she would suffer material harm in so doing.

That's all I've been saying, and a showing of harm, real, tangible harm, is the foundation for all Western Laws. Laws are established to prevent harm from coming to those who would otherwise not be protected with a remedy if the law did not exist.


Tim-
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

All rights that never previously existed, were first established when someone spoke to the need to have them. The main burden on the bringer of these new rights is to show that by not having them a material harm would be caused to the one without the right. In this case, we have a right hat already exists, the right to privacy, and we have a man that had no right to invade her privacy, so he did what was the only thing he could do. He went to court to establish that right. The court needs to weigh the degree of material harm that would fall on the man seeking this new right against the already established right to this woman's privacy. In the Judges opinion, she erred on the side of the Mother, HOWEVER, she did not nor did the Mother from what I can tell, made a showing of how if this man was allowed to be there that she would suffer material harm in so doing.

That's all I've been saying, and a showing of harm, real, tangible harm, is the foundation for all Western Laws. Laws are established to prevent harm from coming to those who would otherwise not be protected with a remedy if the law did not exist.


Tim-

It is the human body. No certainties exist. Since we are talking about the health and welfare of the patient and the soon to be child, you MUST err bigtime on the side of caution. Childbirth is already emotionally and physically stressful enough. More stress will raise her blood pressure and cause her to possibly lose focus.

But regardless of the health risks, the privacy issue was a no brainer. If being in the delivery room was his issue for engaging a lawyer (the lawyer later said no;) ), the lawyer stole his money. It was a slam dunk privacy issue. Ask any nurse or doctor and they will read you chapter and verse on that. We are talking huge fines and probable reporting to the licensing boards.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

The woman in the story specifically put his name on the approved visitors list so that he can hold and bond with his child. Being there for the delivery means nothing. Explain to me how you could abandon your child just because you didn't observe his/her birth? What a selfish ass thing to say.

Absolutely.

What was missing was pouty lips, crossed arms, and stomping feet. "If I can't watch the birth, then I will not support the child" (storm off):lamo
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Absolutely.

What was missing was pouty lips, crossed arms, and stomping feet. "If I can't watch the birth, then I will not support the child" (storm off):lamo

:lamo Funny, that was EXACTLY how I pictured it too!
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

All due respect but this line of reasoning fly's in the face of common sense. Everyone in the damn room would be a complete stranger to the Mother. Ex boyfriend and perhaps her Mom would be the exception. It's not about privacy Rogue, come on stop that silly crap. Yes I get that the laws says she has a right to privacy but you have to admit this is a ridiculous argument that somehow the ex is no longer allowed to see her naked but everyone else is.. LOL

Tim-

Everyone else in the room serves a purpose there (doctors or nurses) or has permission from the mother to be there. That is the difference. Just like the hospital won't let the janitor or someone like that in the room during a delivery. Even students or other people who might wish to "observe" through the hospital would need the permission of the mother to do so.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

If a mother missed a milestone, she would lose her mind. You're all a hyper-emotional, jumbled mess...evidenced by this court case. "I don't want him to be here for this event because I don't like him."

Parents miss milestones all the time in childraising. It happens even when both parents are together raising the child. Most of the time at least one parent is working. Sometimes they are out of the country even or across the country (I missed at least a couple of things for one of my sons or the other due to having to go out of state for at least a month at a time for the reserves or when I was active duty, my husband's missed many being active duty the last 4 years).
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Well, less pain anyways.

But you can't possibly know the amount of pain any woman would truly have to begin with if she took the meds vice not taking the meds and considering the meds don't always work, then it really is impossible to say. And not all women take the meds. And many men are quick to say that they would take the meds no matter what. (Don't get me wrong, most women take the meds, although it is going down given the newer birthing methods that make it a bit easier.)
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Parents miss milestones all the time in childraising. It happens even when both parents are together raising the child. Most of the time at least one parent is working. Sometimes they are out of the country even or across the country (I missed at least a couple of things for one of my sons or the other due to having to go out of state for at least a month at a time for the reserves or when I was active duty, my husband's missed many being active duty the last 4 years).

Ever kick him out as they were about to take their first steps?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Ever kick him out as they were about to take their first steps?

Not the same. His first steps would not involve me getting naked. His first steps are not going to be taken in a hospital or in a high stress and pain situation where extra can cause serious issues with blood pressure, tension, tightening of muscles, etc. that could cause major medical problems (in all likelihood).

Of course, if we started having a fight or he lit up a cigarette or something like that, yeah, he would get kicked out. Heck, if it was some sort of fight right at that moment, we might both end up leaving the room because fighting in front of a child can cause serious issues.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Not the same. His first steps would not involve me getting naked. His first steps are not going to be taken in a hospital or in a high stress and pain situation where extra can cause serious issues with blood pressure, tension, tightening of muscles, etc. that could cause major medical problems (in all likelihood).

Of course, if we started having a fight or he lit up a cigarette or something like that, yeah, he would get kicked out. Heck, if it was some sort of fight right at that moment, we might both end up leaving the room because fighting in front of a child can cause serious issues.

Your husband must've knocked you up fully clothed in the dark.

Naked...lol. Legitimate excuse.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Your husband must've knocked you up fully clothed in the dark.

Naked...lol. Legitimate excuse.

Doesn't matter how he knocked me up. Relationships change. Mine hasn't changed to a point where my husband and I are on bad terms (hopefully it won't). This couple's did.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Disagree.

The child is physically a part of her, as it is attached to and living off of her body. After the birth you would be correct, but not until then.

I still disagree. While the baby is growing and developing inside the mothers body, she did not conceive the baby by herself.

It takes two to tango. That baby is equal parts of both people.

Sorry....but if she dislikes the father that much to deny him the right to witness the birth....perhaps she shouldn't have bedded down with him in the first place.

I don't care how much animosity there is between two adults..they have children together, they both better pull their heads from their asses and put those differences aside and figure out how to be parents. Separate yet together if it comes to that.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Doesn't matter how he knocked me up. Relationships change. Mine hasn't changed to a point where my husband and I are on bad terms (hopefully it won't). This couple's did.

Even if it did, would you deprive him of this?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Even if it did, would you deprive him of this?

If we got pregnant right before a split up and it went bad, yes. I've already said that if he was stressful to me during the other births and we were still on good terms otherwise, I would not allow him in. His feelings being hurt take low priority to the baby's and my own health. And any father/husband/SO who doesn't understand that is selfish.

(Now, I've already discussed this with my husband and he actually agrees with me. He really doesn't want to be in the delivery room anyways. He had no interest in watching our children just be born and he was just there to provide me with comfort and support. If he isn't providing me that, he understands that he should just wait outside.)
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

If we got pregnant right before a split up and it went bad, yes. I've already said that if he was stressful to me during the other births and we were still on good terms otherwise, I would not allow him in. His feelings being hurt take low priority to the baby's and my own health. And any father/husband/SO who doesn't understand that is selfish.

(Now, I've already discussed this with my husband and he actually agrees with me. He really doesn't want to be in the delivery room anyways. He had no interest in watching our children just be born and he was just there to provide me with comfort and support. If he isn't providing me that, he understands that he should just wait outside.)

You have mentioned that he was not present for your second delivery.

Out of curiosity, was that by your request, a voluntary decision on his part, or simply due to him having military obligations elsewhere?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

You have mentioned that he was not present for your second delivery.

Out of curiosity, was that by your request, a voluntary decision on his part, or simply due to him having military obligations elsewhere?

He was there up til he got called into work and we simply could not afford at that time for him to miss work. I agreed that it was okay for him to go since I had support there and he returned as soon as he got off work.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

If we got pregnant right before a split up and it went bad, yes. I've already said that if he was stressful to me during the other births and we were still on good terms otherwise, I would not allow him in. His feelings being hurt take low priority to the baby's and my own health. And any father/husband/SO who doesn't understand that is selfish.

(Now, I've already discussed this with my husband and he actually agrees with me. He really doesn't want to be in the delivery room anyways. He had no interest in watching our children just be born and he was just there to provide me with comfort and support. If he isn't providing me that, he understands that he should just wait outside.)

I wouldn't want to be in there either. However, I'm not arguing for me. I railed about Pigouvian taxes on smoking before and I've never had a cigarette in my life.

It's about principle.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I still disagree. While the baby is growing and developing inside the mothers body, she did not conceive the baby by herself.

It takes two to tango. That baby is equal parts of both people.

Sorry....but if she dislikes the father that much to deny him the right to witness the birth....perhaps she shouldn't have bedded down with him in the first place.

I don't care how much animosity there is between two adults..they have children together, they both better pull their heads from their asses and put those differences aside and figure out how to be parents. Separate yet together if it comes to that.

The baby is most certainly not an equal part him and her, until it is no longer inside her. Simple physiology makes this indisputable in reality.

If by chance he had beaten her and abused her, would you still feel she has no right to be free of him during the birth?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

He was there up til he got called into work and we simply could not afford at that time for him to miss work. I agreed that it was okay for him to go since I had support there and he returned as soon as he got off work.

Gotcha. You had mentioned that your initial delivery did not go exactly as planned, and you had briefly touched upon the subject of "daddy PTSD" following hard deliveries earlier. As such, I was simply wondering whether that might've played a role in him or you not wanting him to be there for the second birth (especially considering the fact that, as you stated, he's not all that keen on watching the delivery process anyway).

Thank you for answering my question. :)
 
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