• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

1.) sorry i have no plans on going over all his rights, which WE ALL HAVE, with you. If you want to do that start a thread based on that. Start with the constitution and go from there it will help out your confusion a lot.
2.) correct, another thing that has nothing to do with this topic

IOW, you can't name a single one. that's what I thought.... :laughat:
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Oh please. You probably couldn't handle the pain a woman goes through in childbirth. Men who have had labour simulators on them have caved quite quickly.

wah. I've been stabbed, shot, tazed, etc, etc, etc. spare me the lame crappola about how horrible the pain of childbirth is.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with law, the right to privacy and that a patient make their own decisions when it comes to their medical care. They should not have FORCED upon them a person they do not wish to be there, who cannot contribute any medical help and is there to observe. COME ON!!! That's silly as hell!


I disagree about the morality issue - hell yes morality has a consideration - how moral is it to further stress out a woman in labor who already is physically and emotionally stressed.

For whatever her reasons are - he is upsetting to her. They broke up. Why is it so odd that after breaking up she would not want him seeing her at her most physically and emotionally vulnerable?

There are many issues of "unfairness" towards the father in law ---this will never ever be one of them.

But it is very easily solved from a legal standpoint. It is blatantly obvious he has not legal right to be here.
 
Last edited:
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

wah. I've been stabbed, shot, tazed, etc, etc, etc. spare me the lame crappola about how horrible the pain of childbirth is.

You can't win the fight, man. Women are gods unto themselves. We try and make them equal - and this is the result.

It's the whole "give them an inch" argument.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I disagree about the morality issue - hell yes morality has a consideration - how moral is it to further stress out a woman in labor who already is physically and emotionally stressed.

For whatever her reasons are - he is upsetting to her. They broke up. Why is it so odd that after breaking up she would not want him seeing her at her most physically and emotionally vulnerable?

There are many issues of "unfairness" towards the father in law ---this will never ever be one of them.

But it is very easily solved from a legal standpoint. It is blatantly obvious he has not legal right to be here.

Upsetting her is not a moral issue, that is a medical issue. I don't think the judge took any moral issues into account but rather the right of privacy of the patient during any medical procedure or care.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Upsetting her is not a moral issue, that is a medical issue. I don't think the judge took any moral issues into account but rather the right of privacy of the patient during any medical procedure or care.

So which is it? Right to privacy, or this absurd belief that "stress" (not that him being there will be any huge addition to what is already happening) will cause complications?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

So which is it? Right to privacy, or this absurd belief that "stress" (not that him being there will be any huge addition to what is already happening) will cause complications?

It's both. If it can cause the mother stress, which I'm sure it does, then that is a medical issue and not a moral one. Like you acknowledged, she is already stressed out, why add to that? For what benefit? Is it worth the risks just so the father can observe the child being born? From a strictly MEDICAL perspective, no it is not.

Right to privacy is of UTMOST important when it comes to your medical care. A decision to allow this to happen against a patient's wishes for ANY reason, could be opening the door to who only knows what. This is why we have patient privacy laws in place.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

It's both. If it can cause the mother stress, which I'm sure it does, then that is a medical issue and not a moral one. Like you acknowledged, she is already stressed out, why add to that? For what benefit? Is it worth the risks just so the father can observe the child being born? From a strictly MEDICAL perspective, no it is not.

Right to privacy is of UTMOST important when it comes to your medical care. A decision to allow this to happen against a patient's wishes for ANY reason, could be opening the door to who only knows what. This is why we have patient privacy laws in place.

As far as I'm concerned, they're both patients. Just because the dad isn't going into labor per se, doesn't make him any less important to the situation.

That's why parents-to-be that are so concerned about an upcoming child say things like "we're pregnant". You're just opening the door to men abandoning their responsibilities because they're not considered to be of value.

Long story short, your attitude contributes to more "sperm donors". It makes me glad I never put a ring on a vitriolic bag of emotions, just because she had a nice rack.

All that glitters is not gold, it seems.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

So which is it? Right to privacy, or this absurd belief that "stress" (not that him being there will be any huge addition to what is already happening) will cause complications?

Technically, it'd be both. I also fail to see why it's really all that "absurd" to suggest that stress could be a negative factor here.

The simple fact of the matter is that stress produces adrenaline, and adrenaline is exactly the opposite of what women need during childbirth. It causes muscles to tense up, rather than relax, and it increases blood pressure.

When you're trying to push a foreign object the size of a football through a hole the size of a lemon (without ripping yourself wide open or giving yourself an aneurysm in the process), and expecting to take hours doing so, none of those effects are good things to have.

Are there tons of spazzy strangers around a woman during a hospital delivery anyway, and does this cause stress?

Absolutely.

However, that's exactly why a lot of experts have started to suggest that hospitals (as they are set up now, anyway) really might not be a great environment for labor and delivery in the first place.

For most of human history, women would have given birth at home, with only one or two close family members and maybe a mid-wife near-by. That would have been massively less stressful and frightening for everyone involved.
 
Last edited:
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Upsetting her is not a moral issue, that is a medical issue. I don't think the judge took any moral issues into account but rather the right of privacy of the patient during any medical procedure or care.

Not caring about the potential physical ramifications to mother and child is a moral issue.

The legal aspect is a total no-brainer. Of course he cannot be in a hospital room when the patient says no. Duh.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Not caring about the potential physical ramifications to mother and child is a moral issue.

The legal aspect is a total no-brainer. Of course he cannot be in a hospital room when the patient says no. Duh.

Right, but I don't think the judge was looking at from a "moral" perspective, rather what is in the best medical interests of mother and child.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Technically, it'd be both. I also fail to see why it's really all that "absurd" to suggest that stress could be a negative factor here.

The simple fact of the matter is that stress produces adrenaline, and adrenaline is exactly the opposite of what women need during childbirth. It causes muscles to tense up, rather than relax, and it increases blood pressure.

When you're trying to push a foreign object the size of a football through a hole the size of a lemon (without ripping yourself wide open or giving yourself an aneurysm in the process), and expecting to take hours doing so, none of those effects are good things to have.

Are there tons of spazzy strangers around a woman during a hospital delivery anyway, and does this cause stress?

Absolutely.

However, that's exactly why a lot of experts have started to suggest that hospitals (as they are set up now, anyway) really might not be a great environment for labor and delivery in the first place.

For most of human history, women would have given birth at home, with only one or two close family members and maybe a mid-wife near-by. That would have been massively less stressful and frightening for everyone involved.

That's why hospitals that offer birthing rooms are good. They are much less "sterile" looking and more comfortable. Keep in mind though that a LOT of women would much rather have their child in a hospital setting. I know that I would. If anything goes wrong, I want to have everything and everyone needed and available to get the BEST care possible.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

As far as I'm concerned, they're both patients. Just because the dad isn't going into labor per se, doesn't make him any less important to the situation.

That's why parents-to-be that are so concerned about an upcoming child say things like "we're pregnant". You're just opening the door to men abandoning their responsibilities because they're not considered to be of value.

Long story short, your attitude contributes to more "sperm donors". It makes me glad I never put a ring on a vitriolic bag of emotions, just because she had a nice rack.

All that glitters is not gold, it seems.

Well, you are just wrong. The man is not a patient. Nothing is happening to his body, and he does not have to see a doctor for anything. YOU are the one letting emotion get the better of you since everyone on the side of the woman has demonstrated how it could be bad for the health of the mother and child to feel additional stress during such a traumatic event, regardless of the REASONS why. If you look at this from a strictly medical and logical unemotional perspective, it is in the best interest of mother and child to NOT create drama. It really doesn't matter who you blame for the drama. The fact of the matter is, this mom has made it quite clear that she would feel uncomfortable with this man being present.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Well, you are just wrong. The man is not a patient. Nothing is happening to his body, and he does not have to see a doctor for anything. YOU are the one letting emotion get the better of you since everyone on the side of the woman has demonstrated how it could be bad for the health of the mother and child to feel additional stress during such a traumatic event, regardless of the REASONS why. If you look at this from a strictly medical and logical unemotional perspective, it is in the best interest of mother and child to NOT create drama. It really doesn't matter who you blame for the drama. The fact of the matter is, this mom has made it quite clear that she would feel uncomfortable with this man being present.

If this child was 8 years old and in the hospital during his dad's visitation and he blocked the mother from seeing the child, you women would lose your damned minds.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

If this child was 8 years old and in the hospital during his dad's visitation and he blocked the mother from seeing the child, you women would lose your damned minds.

WHAT?! You are just grasping at straws now. Stop being ridiculous. :lol: That is a COMPLETELY different situation. Apples and oranges buddy.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

WHAT?! You are just grasping at straws now. Stop being ridiculous. :lol: That is a COMPLETELY different situation. Apples and oranges buddy.

When he falls off his bike and breaks his arm, it's their child. When she's giving birth, it's her child. Am I right?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

The child is a PART of the woman's body until that umbilical cord is cut. I'm sorry, but that is just nature and how it works. There is NOTHING we can do to change this, at least at the moment.

Now, if this woman had said that the father cannot come visit the child or hold the child and bond with the child AFTER the umbilical cord is cut, then I would completely agree with you guys. You would have a completely valid lawsuit in that situation, and yes, she would be bitch unless this man was abusive in some way and the baby's life was at risk by being around him for some reason. But that is NOT the case. This woman has the father on the approved visitors list. She is not denying him the opportunity to bond with his child or to be a father to his child. She simply wishes that he NOT be present during the delivery during possibly the most painful and difficult experience she ever faces.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

When he falls off his bike and breaks his arm, it's their child. When she's giving birth, it's her child. Am I right?

Refer to post #943. You can keep throwing a tantrum about it all you want, but it doesn't CHANGE a thing. Being there is a privilege extended to you by the mother of your child, like it or not.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Refer to post #943. You can keep throwing a tantrum about it all you want, but it doesn't CHANGE a thing. Being there is a privilege extended to you by the mother of your child, like it or not.

She's no mother. She's just a cum dumpster the man was unfortunate enough not to pull out of in time.

A good mother wouldn't deny the father of her child a once-in-a-lifetime experience because she's a miserable sack of crap.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

She's no mother. She's just a cum dumpster the man was unfortunate enough not to pull out of in time.

A good mother wouldn't deny the father of her child a once-in-a-lifetime experience because she's a miserable sack of crap.

You do NOT know the situation. This just goes to show your view of women and the amount of baggage that you carry around. Man, that's really sad. You're pretty young to have such horrid baggage. You'll get the relationship you deserve of course. :lol:
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

The only things you guys are victims of is your own dinks. :rofl
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

You do NOT know the situation. This just goes to show your view of women and the amount of baggage that you carry around. Man, that's really sad. You're pretty young to have such horrid baggage. You'll get the relationship you deserve of course. :lol:

Yeah, I'm the ONLY one who doesn't know the situation.

Also it's not baggage. It's just recognizing women for what they are - which ain't much.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Yeah, I'm the ONLY one who doesn't know the situation.

Also it's not baggage. It's just recognizing women for what they are - which ain't much.

Dude, that's called "baggage" and you've got it bad. :lol: But I digress, that is not very nice of me to say and is rather personal, and we need to stick to the topic, so I apologize for my comments.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Dude, that's called "baggage" and you've got it bad. :lol: But I digress, that is not very nice of me to say and is rather personal, and we need to stick to the topic, so I apologize for my comments.

You can call it "baggage" if you want. I just refuse to let some skirt trample on me or my rights.

I, like you, may not know all the details, but I know this - if she did this to me, she better be prepared for me to sign my rights over then and there. It'll also make her happy, because she'll be able to tell lies and smear the guy, making him look responsible.
 
Back
Top Bottom