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New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room[W:829]

Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Peter King said:
How condescending can one get if you call a woman you almost certainly do not know a "babe". If you have a problem with her name you can call her "miss or misses".
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If that is what you consider condescending behavior you're obviously new to condescending behavior.

The whole men are pushing back is also not true because a lot of men will not agree with you on most of your views.
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I'm sure that will get them far.

And I am pretty sure you do not know the men she meets. She seems a perfectly nice lady to me who is not browbeating into submission by some arrogant macho loser.
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Oh, I know the type of man she thinks she wants. Of course, what she really wants is another thing all together.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
If that is what you consider condescending behavior you're obviously new to condescending behavior.
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But I do know what condescending behavior is, calling a stranger in "babe" in such manner shows your disdain for independent strong women by talking down to them.

Henrin said:
I'm sure that will get them far.
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Yes, it will because unlike men who want to push back (who still live in the time period between the stone ages and the middle of the 20th century), modern men (late 20th century men) will achieve what they and women want, a true partnership in a relationship.

Henrin said:
Oh, I know the type of man she thinks she wants. Of course, what she really wants is another thing all together.
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So, not only are you the voice of oppressed men everywhere (not that a lot of them feel oppressed or want you to speak for them), you have a clairvoyant/psychic who can read her mind as to what she "thinks she wants".
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Peter King said:
But I do know what condescending behavior is, calling a stranger in "babe" in such manner shows your disdain for independent strong women by talking down to them.
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No, it doesn't.

Yes, it will because unlike men who want to push back (who still live in the time period between the stone ages and the middle of the 20th century), modern men (late 20th century men) will achieve what they and women want, a true partnership in a relationship.
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Yes, we have been over this before. You think women want a crying man, and I'm not sure how to tell you this, but no, they don't.

So, not only are you the voice of oppressed men everywhere (not that a lot of them feel oppressed or want you to speak for them), you have a clairvoyant/psychic who can read her mind as to what she "thinks she wants".
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Oh, come on man. Like you don't know what her deal is. Anyone that has been around a while knows what is going through her head. It doesn't take psychic abilities to know that, just experience.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Henrin said:
No, it doesn't.
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Well, I do so we are at a stalemate here and will just have to agree to disagree on this subject.

Henrin said:
Yes, we have been over this before. You think women want a crying man, and I'm not sure how to tell you this, but no, they don't.
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Yes, you have given me your opinion before and just like before I am still not buying it. Women might not want a blubbering fool who bursts into tears at the drop of a hat but women do actually want someone who can show their feelings at appropriate times. Whether it be tears of joy or tears of sorrow. Men too have the right to show these emotions and women often do respect such shows of emotions. Being an equal partner with your spouse and being both physically and mentally involved with your wife to mutual content does not mean that the man has to forget he is a man or act like a castrated dog/animal.

Again, on this subject you will never convince me that you are correct.

Henrin said:
Oh, come on man. Like you don't know what her deal is. Anyone that has been around a while knows what is going through her head. It doesn't take psychic abilities to know that, just experience.
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No, I don't know what her deal is and neither do you. You do not know her in real life and I doubt she would want to get to know you (when looking at your remarks on this forum). Again, you are not a psychic and you may think you know what is going through her head, but your really do not know anything about what is going on in her head.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

AGENT J said:
33 pages and again nothign has changed

the womens rights were protected and the mans rights are completely intact

has there even been ONE logical reason given to violate the womans rights?
One reason why the guy should have the ability to force himself into her medical privacy and view her privates against her will?

one?
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still no change, just 68 pages now, did we miss anything?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

AGENT J said:
still no change, just 68 pages now, did we miss anything?
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just FTR, you can be in the delivery room and not see her "privates", if that is what she is concerned about. more likely, she has a grudge and is using that as an excuse.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

OscarB63 said:
1.)just FTR, you can be in the delivery room and not see her "privates"
2.) if that is what she is concerned about.
3.) more likely, she has a grudge and is using that as an excuse.
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1.) yes you mentioned this early and its meaningless to the rights she has
2.) dont know if this is her only concern, youd have to ask her but again it has no impact
3.) you are free to have this opinion and even if its 100% true it still doesnt matter. In fact she could come out and say the only reason i dont want him in there is because i think he is a piece of **** and i want to hurt his feelings. Its still her right to decided who is in that room and privy to her medical issues/info.

People can THINK she is wrong and FEEL that its an ignorant thing to do and i may even agree but that doesn't change anything. Law and rights dont care about feelings.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Like you, I agree with the judge. It could lead all kinds of bad situations if one party is there that isn't wanted. There could be a fight. Somebody might try to control the birthing process and medical decisions, etc. drama should be avoided.


Aunt Spiker said:
New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room - ABC News



Thoughts?

So the elements in question:
1) Is being a witness to a birth essential to bond with said child?
2) Is the birthing room a matter of the mother's personal privacy?

Of course, this isn't a broad ruling that applies to everyone (every state, etc). Hospitals have their own rules and guidelines they follow - and so forth. States can rule to the contrary. If hospitals they want to change their guidelines they must make an effort to do so. Most err with the side of the mother (which is what led to this case).

I support the ruling and the concept: Being a witness to a birth is not a right. It is a privilege that should be extended to fathers at the decision of the mother per her comfort.
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Of course you see it that way. If you were a women you would complain about the big bad government forcing people into your birthing suite.

The world doesn't revolve around you.


Henrin said:
I think it's ****. If I'm the father I have a right to see the child.
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

They don't share in the physical burden.



MildSteel said:
Since we require fathers to share in the financial burden of supporting the child, they should have the right to be there at birth. Unless of course, the relationship between the father and mother is so strained that it causes the mother an unreasonable level of emotional distress.
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

:lol: the constitution does not revolve around just you. This issue regards the privacy rights of another person.



Henrin said:
I don't need a medical reason to be there and how in the hell am I acting towards her body by being in the room? Get real. Her right to her body doesn't extend towards the entirety of the room. She doesn't own the damn room. I can be where I damn well please, and I have a right to the child, just as she does. I have a right see my child being born, period.
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Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

OscarB63 said:
just FTR, you can be in the delivery room and not see her "privates", if that is what she is concerned about. more likely, she has a grudge and is using that as an excuse.
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And it would be pretty pointless for him to be in the delivery room for the birth if he wasn't actually seeing the birth itself since it isn't very likely that he is going to be a comfort to her (which is the real reason most men are mainly in the room for the birth of their children, to comfort the mother, not see the actual birth). And there is no way for him to witness the actual birth without looking at her privates. And he doesn't have a right to dictate exactly how long after the birth he gets to see the baby. So what if he has to wait an extra 5, 10, or even 20 minutes after the baby is born to actually see the baby? Who gets to decide which child gets to hold the baby first? Whose right is that? And how long does each parent get for those first bonding moments?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
Oh, I don't know, maybe because that child will be a part of his life until the day he dies and the bond he has with that child might be the most important thing in his life. You know, maybe.
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Why does he need to be in the delivery room against the mother's (who is the patient) objections to form a bond with his child???

I am noticing that many of those who think he should be able to force his way in are also against a woman having the choice to abort ..... control issue, perhaps?
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Scrabaholic said:
Why does he need to be in the delivery room against the mother's (who is the patient) objections to form a bond with his child???
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It doesn't matter what you think of his reason for being there, he obviously thinks it was hugely important for him to be there. As I noted above, what does it matter that I think monogamy is not important to YOUR marriage and that it should be fine for your husband or you to have affairs. What importance does my standard regarding your marriage have? None.

It doesn't matter that if you were in this man's shoes that you would chose a different path, what matters is that he believed that this was a hugely important principle, enough to take it to court.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
It doesn't matter what you think of his reason for being there, he obviously thinks it was hugely important for him to be there. As I noted above, what does it matter that I think monogamy is not important to YOUR marriage and that it should be fine for your husband or you to have affairs. What importance does my standard regarding your marriage have? None.

It doesn't matter that if you were in this man's shoes that you would chose a different path, what matters is that he believed that this was a hugely important principle, enough to take it to court.
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And some parents feel that they need to do so many inappropriate things to properly bond with their child. But guess what, they are wrong. And there are times, such as this one, when their beliefs about bonding are outweighed by other people's rights and health.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
It doesn't matter what you think of his reason for being there, he obviously thinks it was hugely important for him to be there. As I noted above, what does it matter that I think monogamy is not important to YOUR marriage and that it should be fine for your husband or you to have affairs. What importance does my standard regarding your marriage have? None.

It doesn't matter that if you were in this man's shoes that you would chose a different path, what matters is that he believed that this was a hugely important principle, enough to take it to court.
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and he found out his feelings actually do NOT matter when it comes to rights, no harm in him trying though.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

OscarB63 said:
just FTR, you can be in the delivery room and not see her "privates", if that is what she is concerned about. more likely, she has a grudge and is using that as an excuse.
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Privacy, peace and calm in the delivery room is even more important than not having your private parts out on show for someone you no longer have any feelings for (at least no longer positive feelings). It is one of the most difficult jobs a woman will ever have to perform and she does not need the added distraction of having some jerk invade her personal privacy and dignity.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Scrabaholic said:
Why does he need to be in the delivery room against the mother's (who is the patient) objections to form a bond with his child???

I am noticing that many of those who think he should be able to force his way in are also against a woman having the choice to abort ..... control issue, perhaps?
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IMO, the man is a selfish jerk. He is bringing the mother of his child into the courtroom because he is throwing his little "me me me" temper tantrum. He is worse than a little child because little children do not know better but a father to be should have more control of himself.

And I do not know why these men (because most of them are/will be male) are also against abortion. I think it is indeed as you say a messiah complex, women are meant to follow, not decide for themselves and have a mind of their own.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Gipper said:
Anything is possible, but the fact that he was willing to go to court for the right to be there for the birth of his child is a positive sign...dontcha think?
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A sign that in the beginning of his parenthood career he will not respect the mothers wishes or feelings or health or welfare.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

I agree with the judges ruling. I don't know why anyone would want to be in a delivery room watching a pregnancy where the woman does not want them to be there. Sounds like of weird anyone would want to do that.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

year2late said:
A sign that in the beginning of his parenthood career he will not respect the mothers wishes or feelings or health or welfare.
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This female privilege is just obscene to observe. The dude is a father - his primary interest should be in his child, not the mother. The mother's interests for the next 20 years don't come before the child's.
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
1.)This female privilege is just obscene to observe.
2.) The dude is a father -
3.) his primary interest should be in his child, not the mother.
4.)The mother's interests for the next 20 years don't come before the child's.
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1.) up holding rights in not obscene lol
2.) meaningless
3.) seems he doesnt care about either
4.) interests dont matter this is about everybodys rights
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

RiverDad said:
This female privilege is just obscene to observe. The dude is a father - his primary interest should be in his child, not the mother. The mother's interests for the next 20 years don't come before the child's.
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You do not get that while that umbilical cord is attached, they share the same interests. A stressed out mother focusing on someone she does not want in the delivery room will have a poor progression in labor. If you stress the mom, you stress the fetus.

This is a power play temper tantrum, no more, no less. He thinks his made up right to invade her privacy trumps her health and welfare.

The "female" has the same privilege to privacy as the "male does".
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

AGENT J said:
and he found out his feelings actually do NOT matter when it comes to rights, no harm in him trying though.
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I keep calling you out on this every single time I happen on your posts, and you have no answer. This is your tag-line..

The world will be a better place when people realize its grey. Life & reality are grey, not black & white, come to the middle, come to reality. I'm Pro-choice, Pro-human rights, pro-gun, pro-equal rights.
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You're actual opinions when expressed and articulated differ tremendously from your stated goal of equal rights when it comes to religion, protecting the unborn humans' rights, and now the right of the Father in this situation to witness his child being born. So how can you say you're for equal rights when clearly you're not. Regardless of whether this couple was estranged shouldn't a Father have an equal right to see his child being born? He's already seen her naked and probably at her most vulnerable, so what right does the mother have to exclude him from the birthing process? What you're really saying is that you believe this mother has a right to be bitter and punish the father of their child. There's no real excuse to deny this man from the room, only superficial irrational arguments that when analyzed really mean that Mom doesn't like Dad anymore, and thus will keep him out just because. Of course she decided to have the money machine in-spite of their relationship's demise; that of course MUST happen, but oh no, sorry Dad, suck it!

The man had no history of domestic disputes, or violence, he was not a criminal or considered dangerous, some please explain to me why Mom has the right to refuse this man a precious experience, one you can never redo?


Got anything, or are just going to say that I'm factually this, that, and the other thing.. ;)

Tim-
 
Re: New Jersey Judge Blocks Dad From Delivery Room

Hicup said:
1.)I keep calling you out on this every single time I happen on your posts, and you have no answer. This is your tag-line..
2.)You're actual opinions when expressed and articulated differ tremendously from your stated goal of equal rights when it comes to religion, protecting the unborn humans' rights, and now the right of the Father in this situation to witness his child being born.
3.) So how can you say you're for equal rights when clearly you're not.
4.) Regardless of whether this couple was estranged shouldn't a Father have an equal right to see his child being born?
5.) He's already seen her naked and probably at her most vulnerable
6.) so what right does the mother have to exclude him from the birthing process?
7.) What you're really saying is that you believe this mother has a right to be bitter and punish the father of their child.
8.) There's no real excuse to deny this man from the room, only superficial irrational arguments that when analyzed really mean that Mom doesn't like Dad anymore, and thus will keep him out just because.
9.) Of course she decided to have the money machine in-spite of their relationship's demise; that of course MUST happen, but oh no, sorry Dad, suck it!
10.) The man had no history of domestic disputes, or violence, he was not a criminal or considered dangerous
11.) some please explain to me why Mom has the right to refuse this man a precious experience, one you can never redo?


Got anything, or are just going to say that I'm factually this, that, and the other thing.. ;)

Tim-
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1.) yes you have and your posts failed every time
2.) nope they simply do not. Also the father has no legal right to be in the room and see the birth against the womans will, ZERO.
if you disagree simply tell us this right?
3.) because i factually am, real rights not the ones you make up ;)
4.) thats not a right so the answer is NO
5.) meaningless to rights, how many girls have you seen naked, does that give you the right to see them now too? lol thats retarded
6.) easy its her privacy and her medical situation
7.) nope thats what YOU are saying
8.) you are welcome to this OPINION but its meaningless, your feelings dont impact rights
9.) nothing to do with the topic
10.) meaningless to her rights
11.) its her right to her privacy and medical situation, sorry you dont like her having rights but she does

The issue is i stick to facts, reality and actual rights not opinions
 
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